Amos 3:7, the New Testament & the Commandments

[1John2:4]

OK you refuse to accept the meaning of the word fulfill. You refuse to accept the clear meaning of Jeremiah. You don't accept Luke as truth. Just don't try and con me into accepting you idea. I love Jesus and what He did for me.

I'm sorry but you are the one taking them out of context, do you not agree that context is important?
I can't say it has pointy ears, wiskers, poos in a box, and says meow and convince you that it is a dog when we know by context it is a cat?

We have already discussed Jerimiah 31 and Matthew 5 at length. why do you choose not to share your thoughts on Isaiah 56?

 

[SAAN]

Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

All of the laws in Torah that deal with morality were before Torah and remain to this day. All the laws of morality are part of the new covenant Royal Law of Love.

Jesus didn't come to abolish Torah, the Israelites did an excellent job of ripping the covenant apart. The covenant was Torah and Torah was not for salvation. Torah was the laws for Israel to live in the land of Canaan. All those laws had nothing to do with their eternal future. Each Israelite was saved the same way Abraham was saved. Again, Torah was not given, by God, to Israel as a ticket for their eternal life.

No one has ever said the law was for salvation purposes, it was to point out their sin and show them a need for a savior.

Read the ENTIRE chapter of Hosea 2 and you will see they were big on Idolatry with all the Baal worship and God was going to take everything away from them, Sabbaths and all as a punishment when he separated Israel. It wasn't saying he was going to abolish the Sabbaths, as you clearly see them keeping them in the New Testament under the New Covenant.

 

[1John2:4]

You need to ask some random people you don't know about the meaning of the phrase of contention.

Nvrmd

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Nothing in the OT is from Jesus as the Gospel of John indicates even by quote of Jesus.

To help understand or clarify this idea ^^^^^^^^
what group, teacher, or church teaches this ?

 

[1John2:4]

No Jesus came to do as the prophets said as in complete which the word fulfill is defined as. As such there needs to be no other fulfillment by us. Jesus established the new covenant not like the old covenant. The new covenant replaces the old covenant lock stock and barrel as in completely. If it dosen't then it's merely a continuance and remodeling oft he old as you contend. Jeremiah simply doesn't allow for that idea.

I am pondering how we are reading the same thing and it is perplexing me how we see it so different. I know these verses have been posted possibly a million times on the Sabbath/law forum.

If you don't mind me asking. What is your beef with people who keep God's law? Is it a bad thing to teach and to keep it? Why are you and others so focused on teaching that they have been done away with? What is your objective by teaching others to not keep God's commandments ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What is your objective by teaching others to not keep God's commandments ?

Amein, this especially: where or when did God ever tell His children to be disobedient ?

 

[1John2:4]

Amein, this especially: where or when did God ever tell His children to be disobedient ?

I am just so confused why they just don't see what the context says. Do they honestly see something totally different than we do? It is so clear in scripture. The meaning of these verses, within the verse itself, have been bolded, put in red, all caps, repeated over and over and they are still constantly being debated. Why? I do not understand

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I am just so confused why they just don't see what the context says. Do they honestly see something totally different than we do?

Yes. It seems so anyway. "Talking it out" with those who do not see something totally different than we do is not usually possible on internet forums - just barely at times, in the best of times.

It is so clear in scripture.

Yes, but nothing is "so clear" to everyone. Again, unable online to go into depth in this direction, except for a few rare(it seems) times.

Why? I do not understand

Maybe, maybe not. As it is written (the explanation from YHWH in HIS WORD), and

" Then opened HE their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,"

and

1 Corinthians 2:13Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

13 These are the things we are talking about when we avoid the manner of speaking that human wisdom would dictate and instead use a manner of speaking taught by the Spirit, by which we explain things of the Spirit to people who have the Spirit.

 

[1John2:4]

Yes. It seems so anyway. "Talking it out" with those who do not see something totally different than we do is not usually possible on internet forums - just barely at times, in the best of times.

Yes, but nothing is "so clear" to everyone. Again, unable online to go into depth in this direction, except for a few rare(it seems) times.


Maybe, maybe not. As it is written (the explanation from YHWH in HIS WORD), and

" Then opened HE their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,"

and

1 Corinthians 2:13Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Thank you, it's really difficult to discuss this with ones you love in person as well without it becoming upsetting. I guess that is why the word is the sword. I suppose that is why I'm here on this forum to get the answers to the questions I am afraid to ask the people closest to me who believe that way.

The answers received here, on the internet almost anywhere, any time, are ALWAYS subject to testing, same as any message delivered in person any time. Many things posted, many 'identities' online, and in person, are entirely fraudulent and deceptive. (as revealed by the authorities frequently when they investigate any chat room/ forum/ bulletin board/ rooms/ ways of contacting unsuspecting victims in all the various ways of criminal activity (which is very widespread, in every country, on every forum, on every chat room, etc etc etc) ...
Pm me if you are able to and would like to exchange more questions.

 

[1John2:4]

The answers received here, on the internet almost anywhere, any time, are ALWAYS subject to testing, same as any message delivered in person any time. Many things posted, many 'identities' online, and in person, are entirely fraudulent and deceptive. (as revealed by the authorities frequently when they investigate any chat room/ forum/ bulletin board/ rooms/ ways of contacting unsuspecting victims in all the various ways of criminal activity (which is very widespread, in every country, on every forum, on every chat room, etc etc etc) ...
Pm me if you are able to and would like to exchange more questions.

Thank you

 

[Bob S]

Torah includes Genisis which was before the law was given so I am not sure that Torah is the same as the Covenant.

Torah was the words of the covenant given only to Israel. Dictionary.com reads:
Bible.

1. the conditional promises made to humanity by God, as revealed in Scripture.
2. the agreement between God and the ancient Israelites, in which God promised to protect them if they kept His law and were faithful to Him.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Torah was the words of the covenant given only to Israel. Dictionary.com reads:

oooooooo, the dictionary doesn't always convey YHWH'S meaning...

I like someone's description that there are several TORAH's, all in perfect agreement with Scripture by definition, when understood,
and
the most over-arching definition of TORAH
being everything flowing/that flows/ from YHWH to men.

 

[bugkiller]

What are you talking about my obligation your obligation? What kind of redorick is that? You are the one making things personal. I would appreciate if you would just stick to the conversation I would not like for this to get locked for ugly behavior. We can all be Christ like and debate and disagree without being nasty to one another.

Paul did keep the feast and teach to keep the feasts have you not read
1 Corinthians 5:8
Acts 18:21

I am really interested in what you do not understand about the following sentence.

It is your obligation to prove you are correct.

I do not see anything personal in that statement. You are making some claims. You seem to be irritated that others are not taking on your claims as theirs. Why?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

oooooooo, the dictionary doesn't always convey YHWH'S meaning...

I like someone's description that there are several TORAH's, all in perfect agreement with Scripture by definition, when understood,
and
the most over-arching definition of TORAH
being everything flowing/that flows/ from YHWH to men.

There seems to no basis for anything but your beliefs. God speaks to us in words we understand. Yet you say no. Oh.

Is your goal to cause others to not participate? Sure looks that way.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I'm aware of Isaiah 56 as I bet buggy is.

Yes I am fully aware of Isiah 56. It is used to derail from other passages they know they can not refute. It also comes up when the opposition tries to prove gentiles were included in the covenant issued to Israel at Sinai. This is entirely false. Any gentile joining themselves to the Lord (covenant made with Israel) does so by circumcision according to Ex 12:48. This verse terminates their gentileness and they become as one in the land - a Jew. They then have full rights and obligations to that covenant. The pro law group needs this to obligate other to the law. This is not true about the NC. Acts proves it without doubt.

It is why a poster came on here and tried to foist the idea Abraham is the root taking it through the linage.
Israel is not the seed. Jesus is the seed. This is always spoken of as singular, never plural. The idea of seed is life springs from it. Jesus lives in the Christian and the Christian draws life from Jesus, not Israel or the covenant of death.

Now others want to disagree with this. Just look at Israel and tell me the law brought life. Paul says it brings death. Indeed that is the major purpose of the law so that Grace (God) can administer mercy. Read Deut 28; Isa 63:17 and Rom 11:32 for proof. Yeah I know they are gonna say just a bunch of verses taken out of context. That is because they do not believe Moses, the prophets, Jesus, His disciples or Paul. They can not refute this even with religious leaders. They need a way out of their corner.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You already posted an opinion disagreeing with Scripture.

It is their bypass argument. Really a dismissal.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Why would I waste my time with Isaiah 56 when you refuse to believe Jeremiah 31? By-the-way both are talking about different things. You desperately need to get away from Jeremiah 31.

Exactly

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Well of course it's a celebration, why would you want to throw it out?

The sabbath or the law? Would that not be both because the 7th day sabbath is the law?

Now since I have accepted the invitation of Jesus in Mat 11:28-30 and have rest, what need is there of the physical sabbath that does not give this rest?

I live in the country and get to marvel about creation everyday.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I do believe in Jerimiah 31 just not the way you are spinning it by taking one verse out of context and making it have an alternate meaning.
How so are they different? Please explain.

You do not have enough wool.

bugkiller