LDS J. Smith said Heavenly Father Died

[withwonderingawe]

Actually, this was not banned.

Rather, the National Council of Christians & Jews *and* the Anti-Defamation League of B'Nai B'Rith both panned the movie it was part of as being "hate" material that was too full of lies and inaccuracies to bother with.

I saved a response I made to the video about a decade or so back if you'd like me to copy & paste it here. Basically though, everything you see in there is false to at least some degree, and does not reflect actual church teaching and practice.

Let's make that very clear the National Council of Christians & Jews *and* the Anti-Defamation League of B'Nai B'Rith both pannedthe movie it was part of as being "hate" material that was too full of lies and inaccuracies to bother with.

 

[Ironhold]

Let's make that very clear the National Council of Christians & Jews *and* the Anti-Defamation League of B'Nai B'Rith both pannedthe movie it was part of as being "hate" material that was too full of lies and inaccuracies to bother with.

...And yet the guy who produced the video still managed to sucker mainline Christian church after mainline Christian church into showing screenings.

 

[Rescued One]

Let's make that very clear the National Council of Christians & Jews *and* the Anti-Defamation League of B'Nai B'Rith both pannedthe movie it was part of as being "hate" material that was too full of lies and inaccuracies to bother with.

When were any of those people Mormons?

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
Joseph Smith—History 1

1 Nephi 14
An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The Saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The Apostle John will write concerning the end of the world. About 600–592 B.C.
1 Nephi 14

Doctrine and Covenants 1
30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—
Doctrine and Covenants 1

 

[Ironhold]

So it doesn't matter to you then that non-Mormon sources were discrediting the film?

 

[BigDaddy4]

Actually?

Trying to find the link I had, but apparently at the time Joseph allegedly said that a number of newspapers had fallen for a hoax which said... exactly what the critics accused JS of saying. If it's true he said that, then he could well have been simply repeating what he'd read in a recent newspaper.

Then he should be dismissed as a prophet.

2 Peter 1:20–21: “No prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”

Prophets don't spread false gossip.

 

[Ironhold]

Then he should be dismissed as a prophet.

So you expect God to personally appear before everyone who believes to personally magic marker through everything in the newspaper that's not right?

 

[BigDaddy4]

So you expect God to personally appear before everyone who believes to personally magic marker through everything in the newspaper that's not right?

So you think a prophet of God is allowed to speak anything he wants, even if it contradicts the Bible and God's own words? A prophet has no responsibility to tame his tongue or contol his thoughts?

Google "Bible gossip" and see what comes up. Here's a couple of passages:

James 1:26-27 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Psalm 34:13 keep your tongue from evil and your lips from telling lies.

Even if they were just speaking their opinion, I don't know how one can take Joseph Smith and Brigham Young seriously on some of the things they said. Doctrine or not, they have no credibility as prophets.

 

[withwonderingawe]

So you think a prophet of God is allowed to speak anything he wants, even if it contradicts the Bible and God's own words?

I think what one person thinks what the Bible says and what another person thinks what the Bible says can be dramatically different. One person says you have to be baptized and another says you don't, each person will draw from the passages which they feel supports their argument.

I think just because the Bible does not address an issue doesn't mean a new prophet can't, as our Word of Wisdom does. It's not a contradiction it's just new.

I think we all have our version of reality and we read the Bible based on that reality, that doesn't mean someone's beliefs contradicts the Bible. It's just a different way to comprehend it.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Then he should be dismissed as a prophet.

2 Peter 1:20–21: “No prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”

Prophets don't spread false gossip.

I'm not following your argument here, what scripture are you pointing at.

 

[Peter1000]

When were any of those people Mormons?

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
Joseph Smith—History 1

1 Nephi 14
An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The Saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The Apostle John will write concerning the end of the world. About 600–592 B.C.
1 Nephi 14

Doctrine and Covenants 1
30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—
Doctrine and Covenants 1

It's one thing for a Mormon to say this film is trash.

It is a whole other thing for a NON-MORMON to say this film is trash too.

You know what God thinks about a liar, even if the liar thinks it's for a good cause.

BTW, the scriptures you shared were spot on again. Thank you.

 

[dzheremi]

If the Holy Spirit will not speak from Himself (John 16:13), then why do the Mormon leaders, who Mormons tell us are guided by that same Holy Spirit, get to do so? Shouldn't they likewise not speak from themselves, if they are truly being guided by the Holy Spirit?

 

[dzheremi]

It's one thing for a Mormon to say this film is trash.

It is a whole other thing for a NON-MORMON to say this film is trash too.

When the fathers say something that clearly contradicts and denies Mormonism, centuries and centuries before Mormonism's supposed 'revelation', Mormons say "So what? We don't listen to the opinions of sinful men."

And yet we see here that when non-Mormons' opinions may be used to insulate Mormonism from criticism, suddenly not only are they listened to, but their opinions are even placed above those of Mormons, because look, NON-MORMONS say XYZ!

What complete and utter hypocrisy.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I think what one person thinks what the Bible says and what another person thinks what the Bible says can be dramatically different. One person says you have to be baptized and another says you don't, each person will draw from the passages which they feel supports their argument.

I think just because the Bible does not address an issue doesn't mean a new prophet can't, as our Word of Wisdom does. It's not a contradiction it's just new.

I think we all have our version of reality and we read the Bible based on that reality, that doesn't mean someone's beliefs contradicts the Bible. It's just a different way to comprehend it.

And every "new" thing needs to be scrutenized and line up with what has already been revealed. Your prophets fail in this regard.

 

[withwonderingawe]

If the Holy Spirit will not speak from Himself (John 16:13), then why do the Mormon leaders, who Mormons tell us are guided by that same Holy Spirit, get to do so? Shouldn't they likewise not speak from themselves, if they are truly being guided by the Holy Spirit?

1Cor 11
13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

Is this Paul's personal opinion or is this considered a thus saith the Lord?

 

[BigDaddy4]

I'm not following your argument here, what scripture are you pointing at.

A prophet of God is not allowed his own interpretation of things. If they do, they are not following the Spirit. If they are not following the Spirit, then they are not prophets of God.

 

[withwonderingawe]

And every "new" thing needs to be scrutenized and line up with what has already been revealed. Your prophets fail in this regard.

I agree with that, that's why I went through the Bible looking to see if there was anything which contradicted it and I could not find one thing. Some greater understandings of things but nothing which contradicted.

 

[withwonderingawe]

A prophet of God is not allowed his own interpretation of things. If they do, they are not following the Spirit. If they are not following the Spirit, then they are not prophets of God.

Who has the right to decided what is the right interpretation of things? Who has the right to decided what a spirit is?

 

[Peter1000]

When the fathers say something that clearly contradicts and denies Mormonism, centuries and centuries before Mormonism's supposed 'revelation', Mormons say "So what? We don't listen to the opinions of sinful men."

And yet we see here that when non-Mormons' opinions may be used to insulate Mormonism from criticism, suddenly not only are they listened to, but their opinions are even placed above those of Mormons, because look, NON-MORMONS say XYZ!

What complete and utter hypocrisy.

We are not using non-Mormon words to insulate ourselves, we are using their words to establish the truth. Since my Mormon opinion usually means nothing to you, perhaps a non-Mormon opinion would be more valuable. If a non-Mormon even says its trash, it possibly could be trash.

Trash is trash. You should be willing to back Mormons when a person lies about our church. I would do the same for you and your church. Actually, come to think about it, that would be the Christian way.

So let us see the Christian side of you on this subject.

BTW, the church fathers contradict each other, not just JS.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I agree with that, that's why I went through the Bible looking to see if there was anything which contradicted it and I could not find one thing. Some greater understandings of things but nothing which contradicted.

Try without your lds glasses. You have to throw away your false teachings (i.e. "greater understandings") to get to the Truth. God the Father never took human form like Jesus did. Your "greater understanding" is the misuse of a Scripture passage. Ironically, it shows the lds have a "lesser understanding" of who God is and what the Scriptures say about Him.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Who has the right to decided what is the right interpretation of things? Who has the right to decided what a spirit is?

God does. He provided written Scriptures already. The lds add-ons are not Scripture.