Is Purgatory real?

[Light of the East]

Again..those were like saying purgatory is real because Paul doesn't say it's not.
In short..ridiculous.
I heard there are little 3 eyed men living in venus.it must be true because Paul didn't say it's not true..
I repeat in caps....REDICULOUS.

More ambiguous waffle that's amounts to ..
“It is so because we say it is so.“

Utter nonsense .

I am still waiting for your answer, sir. You are ducking my question. Scripture states that our wood, hay, and stubble will be burned up.

Please tell me what happens to you if you die and are not 100% like Christ Jesus upon meeting him. St. Peter said that we are bearers of the divine nature, that is, we are being made to be like him. So if we die having not been made 100% like him - that is, our passions not being completely eradicated and there still being parts of that "old man of sin" which St. Paul speaks of in his epistles, then what happens?

Do we just go on into the presence of God anyway? Please tell me what happens.

 

[fide]

Neither of those appears to be correct to say, sorry.

It is all grace. Left to our own reasonings, we stumble. With earnest prayer, however, God will reveal - with His grace - all that we need.

 

[PeaceB]

It seems to me that people who object to purgatory want forgiveness, but they have no desire to make amends or undergo punishment for the sins that they have committed. In other words, they are not truly repentant. A criminal who is truly repentant turns himself in to the police and takes the punishment that he deserves. He should want to serve his time and try to reverse whatever damage that he has done. On the other hand, a criminal who is not repentant flees the law in an attempt to avoid facing punishment, and does nothing to make amends for the crime he has committed.

The idea that they should pay a price for the sins they have committed seems to be offensive to those who object to purgatory, so it would seem that they actually lack true repentance for their sins. Although they will be unlikely to admit it, it seems that they actually would desire Jesus to undergo punishment for their sins, so that they do not have to undergo any punishment themselves. They seem to have no sense of justice whatsoever.

 

[Alithis]

No, your view is nonsensical.

Great ..just like the false doctrine of purgatory..
Glad your getting it now .

 

[The Times]

You demonstrate the evidence that condemns sola scriptura: Scripture is rich, and profoundly deep, and beautiful and holy. But because it is divine - the words of God - it is rightly heard, believed and discerned ONLY in God Himself, that is, in and led by the Holy Spirit.

And that is why Jesus sent the Spirit to His witnesses whom He sent to preach and to teach: He sent His Spirit to His Church, to lead and guide us into all the truth.

Outside of His Church is some truth, yes, praise God! But understanding is mixed with error and with opinion - thus the many divisions and denominations. Jesus wants His own to hear and receive and live ALL that God has revealed to mankind, entrusted to His one Church.

If you want "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth", you need to listen to His Church. She was and is given the Spirit, to guide her into all the truth - as Jesus promised.

Hello friend.

I absolutely agree with you on this point. The Church throughout the ages has been instrumental in producing all these myriad of witnesses, who have come out of her as budding flowers and have flourished in different lands. Though these witnesses no longer became connected to the mainstream Church institution, for right or wrong, they indeed did very much stand for the Church and what the obligation of the Church was, that is to preach and to spread the gospel and to make disciples of all the world.

If we can take the example that Jesus gave us as to what he wants and what he OKs, then let us read the following and to take it on board, as Jesus is the final authority in this matter and not man....

49“Master,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us.”

50“Do not stop him,” Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.” (Luke 9:49-50)

I put the words of Jesus in bold, because his words is the Church and men who are workers within his Church, whether a bishop, a patriarch or a pope, cannot overrule what Jesus said, because Jesus is their master.

So I believe on the positive side of why there are many compartmentalised divisions within Christainity and it is to safe guard it from the enemy within. There is unity in diversity and division, because at the end of the day, Jesus is the only Pope and the head of the Church and not a priest who dies and passes their rank to another, which really falls under the levitical style priesthood that was transferable to others. However Jesus as our High Priest Pope has indestructible life, his Melchizedek priesthood is not transferable to another person ie man, because he lives for ever and is the head of the Church and also restructures it as he pleases and we see this in reality.

The myriad of denominations is the compartmentalised works of Jesus in restructuring his Church through out the ages, in a way that hinders the enemy from bringing it under the centralised controlling umbrella of the one world wide reglious institution, which has historically proven to be enmity to God as it is portrayed as the Jezebel fornicating with the kings of the world.

What has a religious institution to do with the kings of the world, other then to fornicate with them, right?

 

[The Times]

@fide

To get back on the pressing issue, the question of mainstream Church Institution being the only vehicle of Holiness and infallibility towards the latter times is fraught with many errors.

These are the errors....

Paul states that at the latter times there shall be a great falling away from the faith.

Who instigates this?

The hierarchy within the mainstream Church!

Daniel even bluntly writes that they no longer will worship the God of their fathers, but they will worship and give honour to a strange god of forces/power, ie the AntiChrist to come.

Whenever we see a centralised religious institution arising, with the blessing of the kings of the world, we have warning bells going off like you wouldn't believe. History repeats right?

Mainstream Church is today like a Titanic heading towards an iceberg and you have to be oblivious to what is happening around you within the interfaith movement to not be able to see that all these religions are being united for one purpose by design, so that there will be a time, when they shall want peace and safety in unity, that they will disband their books ie sacred scriptures and to embrace the man of sin.

@fide know this, that when they touch the seven sacraments of Christ, then you know that I am right. What will you do?

Unfortunately scripture points to a devasting end day martyrdom for the true Church, as it was in the days of Elijah, where Jezebel made a pact with the king to kill the prophets of God and to replace them with her Baal priests, because history repeats itself. This time history repeats on a much grandeur and global scale.

@fide the reason why you say the Church is the only one to interpret sacred scripture, is another ploy by the enemy who taught you to say this in order to deter others from using scripture as a legitimate and authoritative text, so that when the time comes, people will no longer hold it to heart, especially when a godlike being is presented to the global mainstream Church, who speaks out against the most high and promotes his own Luciferean gospel.

 

[PeaceB]

@fide the reason why you say the Church is the only one to inerpret sacred scripture, is another ploy by the enemy who taught you to say this in order to deter others from using scripture as a legitimate and authoritative text, so that when the time comes, people will no longer hold it to heart, especially when a godlike being is presented to the global mainstream Church, who speaks out against the most high and promotes his own Luciferean gospel.

This is an interesting idea, but I do not think anyone would go so far as to say that one must follow an authority with no regard to Scripture. If Pope Francis comes out tomorrow and says "Thou shalt worship the devil" we will be right there with you responding that "The Bible says otherwise." Heck, 10% of parishioners call him a heretic right now.

 

[The Times]

This is an interesting idea, but I do not think anyone would go so far as to say that one must follow an authority with no regard to Scripture. If Pope Francis comes out tomorrow and says "Thou shalt worship the devil" we will be right there with you responding that "The Bible says otherwise." Heck, 10% of parishioners call him a heretic right now.

That you will friend.

What about if he gets rid of the 7 sacrements of Christ?

 

[PeaceB]

That you will friend.

What about if he gets rid of the 7 sacrements of Christ?

If a Pope attempts to eliminate a sacrament, then he is a heretic.

 

[The Times]

If a Pope attempts to eliminate a sacrament, then he is a heretic.

We must hold onto the tradition of the Church. I am on the side of the fathers of faith.

 

[Galilee63]

Lybrah we are only covered in our Lord Jesus Precious Holy Sacred Blood if we pray for this in Jesus Holy Will at times granted and through receiving our Lord Jesus Blessed Holy Sacraments of which firstly and paramount being Holy Confession after Holy Baptism, Holy Reconciliation and Holy Communion from our hearts open to Jesus in love trust and gratitude.

And our Lords Blessed Holy Sacraments are a great deal more than receiving His Holy Blessings Gifts and Graces, we are in fact receiving Jesus Himself in His Sacred Precious Holy Blood of which guards against going to hell and through Holy Confession lightening our time spent in Holy Purgatory in the cleansing Fire in Jesus Holy Will, Gods Holy Will through Jesus Mercy and Holy Precious Blood. and that is why it is essential for people to realise that without receiving Jesus in His Blessed Holy Flesh and Blood we have no Life in us at all for the real Life in Heaven nor here.

Without receiving Jesus into hearts with The Holy Spirit and without receiving His Blessed Holy Sacraments in order to be given the "Opportunity" to receive Jesus Mercy now and at the hour of death, we face God without Mercy

The Catholic Church is in God, Jesus Holy Spirit and Mother Marys.

There is God our Heavenly Fathers Universal Church.

One of the reasons is that all of our Lord Jesus and Holy Spirits Holy Blessed Sacraments are received in His Catholic Church with Jesus manifested and Present in His Blessed Holy Sacrament of which is taken out for Holy Exposition at the Altar daily and regularly for Holy Adoration.

Jesus is Present His Flesh and Blood within His Blessed Holy Eucharist with Jesus telling hundreds of His Saints each Century that He stands near and behind The Priests at His Altar turning the Bread into His Holy Flesh and Blood for Parishioners and the Priests to receive of which Jesus said contain "My Blessings Gifts and Graces" and Jesus said that He is Present within Holy Sacrament of Confession "Where I am hidden behind the Priest where the misery of the soul approaches My Fount of Mercy" Jesus told Saint Faustina.

Jesus said to one of His Saints - Saint Faustina that "I stand between the dying person and My Father".

"Woe to those who ignore My Mercy during their lifetime".

Gods Holy Word

"My Messiah is forthcoming with His Mercy". God Himself spoke to His Priests and Prophets proclaiming His Messiahs our Lord Jesus Mercy in His Old Testament.

God Himself requested Moses and Aaron to ensure that all of His Holy of Holies within His Holy Tabernacle and Altars were precisely measured and set up in His Holy Will where God Himself was manifested and Present.

Today in the Catholic Church this since the Hebrew and Roman period has been done in Gods Holy Will and Way through Jesus Christ our Merciful Saviour and The Holy Spirit and through our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary







Having said this, The Catholic and Anglican Church in God have strengthened their Union in God here over many years.

 

[The Times]

The blood of Jesus is in his sacrements, for that is what the early Church believed.

The sacrements are available to the living, who come freely to take part in the Holy communion, provided by the priests.

The sacrements are tied to the blood covenant and it is made available, whilst we live in the earthly body. All covenants from Adam, Abraham, Moses, David, Christ are applicable to the fleshly creatures and not to the departed in Christ.

When a faithful dies, they are brought before the Lord for the judgement of the works of faith done in the fleshly body. That is , it is said all eyes shall see him and all knees shall bow before his judgement seat, on the day of judgement.

Grace from the blood of Christ for the departed in the afterlife is no longer applicable, for there exists no covenant by post mortem as far as salvation is concerned for the departed and no further sanctification anticipated nor expected.

When Jesus said it is finished, it is finished. When Paul said I have finished my race and now is my departure, then his race is finished. When a faithful dies, it is blood in blood out scenario that finishes the race of faith for that individual. That is why Jesus said be faithful even onto death and I will give you a victors crown.

There exists no covenant of grace by post mortem and orthodox view of purgation in this life is not to be confused with purgatory in the afterlife. Jesus said in this life we will have much tribulation and to those that overcome he will salvage and give them their victors crown.

Spiritists believe in afterlife purgatory and I believe that certain clergy would eventually have brought in this erroneous teaching in these times, especially when Universalism is the flavour of the day.

Listen friends, don't put your hopes in an afterlife purgatory, the urgency is in the here and now before you die then judgment. After you die, no one in this realm can help you or vouch for you. You will be on your own, either you will be drawn to the Light Jesus Christ or you will go into outer darkness and be forever separated from the Light.

If you want testimonies and not church dogma, then go and listen to countless near death experiences of many peoples from all nations and from all religions testifying of going to a dark dark place, then discovering that in that state only Jesus could have saved them from that fate. Many returned and preached about hell, in the absence of afterlife purgatory.

Please go and do your homework and understand that the Orthodox view of purgation is correct and that scripture testifies of many going through the great tribulation in this life only, and making their garments white by the blood of the lamb of God.

All I am saying is to not put your hopes in an afterlife purgatory to cleanse and to save you in the afterlife. The urgency is in the here and now. Think about it, when you go bodiless to an empty place where fires exist and torment is the flavour of the day, then how is the loving God welcoming you from that state?

It would be like a father locking his son or daughter in a dark place with coals under feet, under a continuing state of torment, not knowing when it will end, because time does not exist and it feels like eternity. Then the father opens the prison door to then say to his son or daughter welcome, now your granted access to my home.

The above resembles a figure spoken of in the following versus.....

“How you are fallen from heaven,
Lucifer, the son of the Morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
13You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
15But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.
16Those who see you will stare at you
and ponder over you:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,
17who made the world like a desert
and overthrew its cities,
who did not let his prisoners go home?’

 

[The Times]

After a believer dies, our Loving God Jesus Christ frees the prisoners of this prison planet, who were under Lucifer's global Babylonian control. Jesus does not transfer them to another afterlife prison called purgatory, only to welcome them after they were clensed just right enough, by telling them now I grant you access to my home.

Think about it, would Jesus do this?

If you think he will do this, then you have him confused with the other guy and the other guy is no friend of Jesus.

 

[fide]

@fide

To get back on the pressing issue, the question of mainstream Church Institution being the only vehicle of Holiness and infallibility towards the latter times is fraught with many errors.

These are the errors....

Paul states that at the latter times there shall be a great falling away from the faith.

Who instigates this?

The hierarchy within the mainstream Church!

Daniel even bluntly writes that they no longer will worship the God of their fathers, but they will worship and give honour to a strange god of forces/power, ie the AntiChrist to come.

Whenever we see a centralised religious institution arising, with the blessing of the kings of the world, we have warning bells going off like you wouldn't believe. History repeats right?

Mainstream Church is today like a Titanic heading towards an iceberg and you have to be oblivious to what is happening around you within the interfaith movement to not be able to see that all these religions are being united for one purpose by design, so that there will be a time, when they shall want peace and safety in unity, that they will disband their books ie sacred scriptures and to embrace the man of sin.

@fide know this, that when they touch the seven sacraments of Christ, then you know that I am right. What will you do?

Unfortunately scripture points to a devasting end day martyrdom for the true Church, as it was in the days of Elijah, where Jezebel made a pact with the king to kill the prophets of God and to replace them with her Baal priests, because history repeats itself. This time history repeats on a much grandeur and global scale.

@fide the reason why you say the Church is the only one to interpret sacred scripture, is another ploy by the enemy who taught you to say this in order to deter others from using scripture as a legitimate and authoritative text, so that when the time comes, people will no longer hold it to heart, especially when a godlike being is presented to the global mainstream Church, who speaks out against the most high and promotes his own Luciferean gospel.

JN 17 - The High-Priestly Prayer of Jesus, prays that "they all may be one." Setting the desire and intention of Christ aside, so many of His "followers" reject the notion of One visible, institutional Church accusing it of being not "of Jesus" but of the evil one! They accuse His teaching as being not of His Heart, but a lie of satan, a seduction of Jezebel.

No, His will and intention has not changed. Man continues to edit and improve His will by fitting it to his own darkened intellect and misguided desires.

 

[Galilee63]

Jesus said we won't get out until we pay the last penny with Hundred of His Saints and Martyrs writing and recording Jesus Holy Word and Holy messages while appearing to them each Century saying that Holy Confession is essential from hearts open to Him in remorse or we do not receive His Mercy while being judged by Jesus God and The Holy Spirit and that is why so many souls are lost to Jesus He says

Jesus said He ignores those souls whom ignored Him during lifetimes not praying and talking to Him in trust

 

[Albion]

The fact remains that burning stubble and the last penny being paid are analogies that believers in the idea of Purgatory want to think are about Purgatory. But Purgatory, if it did exist, is not just this. You're scraping the bottom of the Scriptural barrel to make the sketchiest of phrases be about a very intricate concept, Purgatory. It's like describing a wheel, after which you proclaim, "So that proves there's a Chevrolet."​

 

[Galilee63]

After making The Sign of The Cross then blocking evil, with 3 Our Fathers 3 Hail Marys and 3 Glory Be's ask our Lord Jesus and The Holy Spirit and Our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary to reveal Holy Purgatory to you all in Jesus Holy Will and Holy Ways

Jesus has revealed many things to me over the past few years with Holy Spirit and Mother Mary through daily Prayer Of The Most Holy Rosary, praying to Jesus God and Holy Spirit Our Lords Holy Wound Chaplet and His Divine Mercy Novena and Chaplet from my heart open to Jesus in Love and trust to Him with regular weekly Holy Confession and Holy Communion from my heart in love and gratitude to Jesus

One Holy way was a vision of relative souls sitting in an intermediary place like a bus stop in yellow colours with one relative defeated in expression horror filled and upset with himself that he had not trusted Jesus as really being Present physically in his life when Jesus was and Blessing Gifting him greatly

The other relative was happy because she had deep down trusted in Jesus and known somewhat that He was present in her life and she prayed to Him one of His most Sacred Prayers to Him regularly seeking time out with Him early of a morning and I instantaneously was given these thoughts rapidly at the time

The others at the Holy Bus stop awaiting judgement and their final destination felt dreadful sadness sorrow and bewilderment confusion because they really did not know what was in store for them either way Holy Purgatory or Hell no Heaven for any of the large group directly

I felt in my heart very very sad for all of these souls and worse knowing that there were other large groups of souls elsewhere up there awaiting judgement in other places degrees sufferings with these Holy Buses brightly lit which kind of made it worse in some respect because going from that Holy waiting place brightly lit and not in the Cleansing unbearable fiery furnaces heat that they would be soon suffering well it made it dreadful and the loss of God of which horror filled this one particular ashen faced soul

This took place as a warning to me to warn others and myself I feel and know in my heart and family members whom put without judgement all earthly things and more first as priority

I also felt afterwards that Catholics and Christians can be more at risk of lengthy stays in Holy Purgatory sufferings unbearable than souls whom have repented from hearts to Jesus in humility and deep sorrow to Him while trusting in Jesus such as when we receive our Lords Blessed Holy Sacraments without love and gratitude to Jesus thanking Him from hearts open to Him

Our Holy Mother Mary was there with these souls in Her Love Humility and Kindness Gentle with them yet not speaking at the time doing other things and praying

It was my earthly Father and Mother of whom are still alive and elderly among the large group awaiting judgement yet cannot tell them this so...will continue praying for them

 

[Galilee63]

use common sense

Of course Holy Purgatory - Purgatory is real for many reasons as are Heaven, God our Heavenly Father with Jesus and The Holy Spirit and our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary

Of course Hell and satan and His evil spirits are real physically real

Read Gods Holy Word more deeply more quietly more uninterrupted and pray prior to reading asking Jesus God and The Holy Spirit with Mother Mary to reveal to you Holy Purgatory and to reveal Gods Holy Passages relating more directly to Purgatory

Trusting in Jesus completely with The Holy Spirit

No television no music no noise no interruptions surrendering all earthly knowledge ego pride vanity self superiority seeking Jesus and His Holy Sacred Wisdom in The Holy Spirit instead and not what satan wants you to think not feel and spurious for His evil gain of more poor souls not believing in Heaven Purgatory or Hell

Because if one only believes in Heaven and not the others then there are problems for soul salvation given many reasons one being that all are mentioned in Jesus Holy Teachings and Parables our Lord Jesus New Testament Revelations and The Old Testament including Psalms

In Gods Holy Scriptures there are many Holy meanings and Holy interpretations that one is able to receive if opening hearts receiving Jesus into hearts in humility not knowledge from here

Jesus favours humble souls not knowledgeable ones thinking they know that there is no Purgatory no punishment no need for Holy Comfession nor Holy Communion receiving our Lord Jesus within His Blessed Holy Sacraments

One either believes and trusts in God and His Holy Word or one does not

There were certain Holy Books God our Heavenly Majesty delivered to Holy Saint Ezra of which were retained by Holy Ezra that God our Heavenly Father told Holy Ezra were only for the wise among them and not to be read by others

Therefore we all do not know the entirety of Gods Holy Word including any mention of Purgatory To Holy Ezra

Never assume that Purgatory does not exist

Jesus has appeared to hundreds of His Saints Nuns showing them Holy Purgatory and many lay people each Century when the internet was not created nevertheless they all not knowing one another wrote diaries and writings handing them over to their Suoeriors within the Convents and to Priests and other Religious

Hundreds of Saints cannot be wrong in relation to the existence of Purgatory nor can many other lay people around the world having been in comas Catholics Christians shown Purgatory nor Saint Padre Pio receiving The Holy Stigmata of our Lord Jesus and Holy Bilocatiom

The Holy Spirit guides our hearts and souls on this if one seeks and knocks praying and asking Jesus Holy Spirit and Mother Mary in deep Faith Love and trust in Jesus

 

[Albion]

use common sense

If it were common sense that decided this issue, we would be forced to agree that Purgatory doesn't exist. I'm inclined to be guided by Scripture myself, but common sense certainly doesn't favor this Medieval invention we call Purgatory that is so unacceptable to even most Catholics that the church has had to begin phasing it out.

 

[PeaceB]

so unacceptable to even most Catholics that the church has had to begin phasing it out.

No, this is false.