Eternal Torment, Annihilation or Universal Reconciliation?

[Rajni]

Matthew 25: KJV
41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: {42} For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: {43} I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. {44} Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? {45} Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. {46} And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

Okay, I have to apologize for what has now become something of a wall of text on my part. These things are never as simple as they seem on the surface. Someimes I want to go back to my simpler, evangelical fundamentalist days because they saved me so much time (and typing). But to whom much is given, much is required. So...

*takes a deep breath*

Remember not everything with the English word "everlasting" / "eternal" and the like were necessarily literally unending. The aforementioned mountains and hills in Habakkuk are one example.

On top of that, there's a difference between something that is punishment in general and something that's actively punishing an individual directly. The punishment might exist indefinitely as an overall institution, such as a jail, but it's use in punishing any one, single individual would be temporary until that punishing did it's thing. With regards to God-related punishment, I see it as productively corrective, rather pointlessly cruel, so I don't see anyone undergoing that punishment's punishing for literally all eternity.

Now, in looking at Matthew 25:46, the original Greek adjective referring to eternal punishment and eternal life is the same, aiōnion (αἰώνιον). The definition of that word, according to Strongs, is:

"age-long, and therefore: practically eternal, unending; partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting."​

So basically, it's a really long time, to the point where it seems like forever (like waiting in line at the DMV).

This is where some will ask: "Yeah, but if it's only temporary when referencing punishment, is it therefore temporary when referencing Life?" Well, as we know, adjectives are determined by the nouns they're referring to. For example, a "long business meeting" would not be understood to be of the same duration as a "long winter", even though both are described as "long". The "everlasting" mountains in Habakkuk proved to be anything but "everlasting", but then they're mountains, and, as such, wouldn't be expected to last literally forever.

Same with "everlasting" punishment and life. Punishment wouldn't literally last forever because it's correctional purpose is eventually achieved, making it then no longer necessary for the individual. Life in God, however, would literally be eternal, because He is eternal, as the One with no beginning and no end.

Now, it could be argued that even one's stay in heaven might be temporary, if reincarnation is factored into things, but that's another thread. Aside from that, though, some believe in the whole angelic rebellion, led by Lucifer, that took place in heaven eons ago, resulting in the fallen angels (demons) we are said to have now. If that can happen, then it's quite possible that heaven, while being eternal as a place, is, for individuals, temporary if those individuals choose to try something different (I would hope they would choose reincarnation over rebellion, myself). I mean, if the Restoration of All Things is to be understood as winding the clock back to how things were with Adam and Eve in the garden, well, they were "perfect" and things still got pretty crazy, so who's to say it won't happen again? (okay now I'm probably overthinking this... sorry... )

On top of all of that, I'm pretty much with the Eastern Orthodox as far as just what—or, rather, Who—that Lake of Fire is. If it's basically God's Presence as the Consuming Fire He's said to be (and that fire can be lovely if I had the taste of it that I think I had), that is indeed eternal, everlasting. For those who love Him, being in His presence is Life. For those who don't, it's going to be Punishment, until their punishing (which could be something as simple as the misery of being in His presence while not wanting to be) is complete.

 

[Adstar]

Okay, I have to apologize for what has now become something of a wall of text on my part. These things are never as simple as they seem on the surface. Someimes I want to go back to my simpler, evangelical fundamentalist days because they saved me so much time (and typing). But to whom much is given, much is required. So...

*takes a deep breath*

Remember not everything with the English word "everlasting" / "eternal" and the like were necessarily literally unending. The aforementioned mountains and hills in Habakkuk are one example.

On top of that, there's a difference between something that is punishment in general and something that's actively punishing an individual directly. The punishment might exist indefinitely as an overall institution, such as a jail, but it's use in punishing any one, single individual would be temporary until that punishing did it's thing. With regards to God-related punishment, I see it as productively corrective, rather pointlessly cruel, so I don't see anyone undergoing that punishment's punishing for literally all eternity.

Now, in looking at Matthew 25:46, the original Greek adjective referring to eternal punishment and eternal life is the same, aiōnion (αἰώνιον). The definition of that word, according to Strongs, is:

"age-long, and therefore: practically eternal, unending; partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting."​

So basically, it's a really long time, to the point where it seems like forever (like waiting in line at the DMV).

This is where some will ask: "Yeah, but if it's only temporary when referencing punishment, is it therefore temporary when referencing Life?" Well, as we know, adjectives are determined by the nouns they're referring to. For example, a "long business meeting" would not be understood to be of the same duration as a "long winter", even though both are described as "long". The "everlasting" mountains in Habakkuk proved to be anything but "everlasting", but then they're mountains, and, as such, wouldn't be expected to last literally forever.

Same with "everlasting" punishment and life. Punishment wouldn't literally last forever because it's correctional purpose is eventually achieved, making it then no longer necessary for the individual. Life in God, however, would literally be eternal, because He is eternal, as the One with no beginning and no end.

Now, it could be argued that even one's stay in heaven might be temporary, if reincarnation is factored into things, but that's another thread. Aside from that, though, some believe in the whole angelic rebellion, led by Lucifer, that took place in heaven eons ago, resulting in the fallen angels (demons) we are said to have now. If that can happen, then it's quite possible that heaven, while being eternal as a place, is, for individuals, temporary if those individuals choose to try something different (I would hope they would choose reincarnation over rebellion, myself). I mean, if the Restoration of All Things is to be understood as winding the clock back to how things were with Adam and Eve in the garden, well, they were "perfect" and things still got pretty crazy, so who's to say it won't happen again? (okay now I'm probably overthinking this... sorry... )

On top of all of that, I'm pretty much with the Eastern Orthodox as far as just what—or, rather, Who—that Lake of Fire is. If it's basically God's Presence as the Consuming Fire He's said to be (and that fire can be lovely if I had the taste of it that I think I had), that is indeed eternal, everlasting. For those who love Him, being in His presence is Life. For those who don't, it's going to be Punishment, until their punishing (which could be something as simple as the misery of being in His presence while not wanting to be) is complete.

I take the Word of God in the Bible to be the Word of God.. I do not try to change words because i do not like what the message of God is saying.. So your attempt is a waste of a lot of Words that are based on false interpretation of English words. And human thinking.. Seeing Eternal punishment as correction??? wow where did you get that from??

Eternal punishment is just that Eternal punishment..

 

[Rajni]

Well, I tried!
I'm off to enjoy my day!
Have fun, y'all!

 

[Der Alte]

Remember not everything with the English word "everlasting" / "eternal" and the like were necessarily literally unending. The aforementioned mountains and hills in Habakkuk are one example.

That is correct. There is a figure of speech called hyperbole.
.....In English we use hyperbole e.g. "I went to a restaurant yesterday, there was a long line I had to wait forever." The fact that I used the word "forever" to describe a period of several minutes does not mean the word does not normally refer to an everlasting, unending period of time. In the following linked posts in this thread I quoted from nine (9) Greek language sources documenting the meaning of aion/aionios, never refuted and to my knowledge never addressed.
post #191
post #156
The word aionion is first found in the writings of Plato mid 4th century BC. Plato says "aion is what is properly eternal" Scholars believe that Plato coined the adjective from the noun "aion."

On top of that, there's a difference between something that is punishment in general and something that's actively punish

ing an individual directly. The punishment might exist indefinitely as an overall institution, such as a jail, but it's use in punishing any one, single individual would be temporary until that punishing did it's thing. With regards to God-related punishment, I see it as productively corrective, rather pointlessly cruel, so I don't see anyone undergoing that punishment's punishing for literally all eternity.

There is no such distinction in Greek or English. If you can, please provide evidence of such from accredited Greek scholars? Not copy/pastes from anonymous blogs

Now, in looking at

Matthew 25:46, the original Greek adjective referring to eternal punishment and eternal life is the same, aiōnion (αἰώνιον). The definition of that word, according to Strongs, is:
"age-long, and therefore: practically eternal, unending; partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting.".

Strong's has been found to have about 15,000 errors or omissions. See the 9 Greek sources I linked to above.

Online Bible FAQ
Q:The Online Bible Strongs is not the same as my Exhaustive Strongs Concordance. Why is that?
A: We used the Strong's system but the actual Greek and Hebrew to implement the numbers. By doing this we corrected about 15000 errors in the Strong's concordance.
http://www.onlinebible.net/faqs.html

Rebuilding Strong’s time-honored concordance from the ground up, biblical research experts John Kohlenberger and James Swanson have achieved unprecedented accuracy and clarity. Longstanding errors have been corrected. Omissions filled in. Word studies simplified. Thoroughness and ease of use have been united and maximized.
Zondervan

Strongest Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, The: 21st Century Edition​

 

[ClementofA]

Would you give specific examples of early church fathers and creeds that reject eternal punishment, please?

I never made such a claim re creeds. Show me where they support the theories of endless torments or endless annihilation. Info on Early Church Fathers who rejected endless torments or endless annihilation or both has been discussed here before, if you search the forum, & is plentiful on the internet.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Tim.3:16)

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[ClementofA]

αἰώνιον is not a Hebrew word. The place to look for its definition is in a Greek lexicon and the place to observe how it is used is in the Greek New Testament.

No one said aionios is a Hebrew word.

That is also beside the point of my comments on Dan.12:2-3.

You can find the Greek word aionios not only in the Greek NT, but also in the Greek OT and in ancient secular usage.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Tim.3:16)

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[GingerBeer]

No one said aionios is a Hebrew word.

That is also beside the point of my comments on Dan.12:2-3.

You can find the Greek word aionios not only in the Greek NT, but also in the Greek OT and in ancient secular usage.

A Greek lexicon derives its definitions of Greek words from OT, NT, and secular documents. That is why I wrote that one ought to look in a Greek Lexicon for the definition of Greek words. And if knowing what the meaning of a Greek word in a NT verse is important then the usage of the Greek word in all the places it is used in the Geek NT is of paramount importance.

Daniel 12:2 in the LXX is less significant for discovering the meaning of αἰώνιον in Matthew 25:46 than the use of αἰώνιον in the NT because the LXX was produced a century or two before the NT was written and usage changes with time. One or two centuries is a significant time for Koine Greek just like it is for English. Thus what the translators of Hebrew words thought αἰώνιον meant when the LXX was in the process of being created is not nearly as important as what NT authors thought αἰώνιον meant when the NT was being created for deciding the meaning of αἰώνιον in Matthew 25:46.

 

[GingerBeer]

I never made such a claim re creeds.

Thank you for clarifying that.

Can you provide any early church father's writings where they teach that αἰώνιον means "a long time" and does not mean "eternal" in Matthew 25:46?

 

[claninja]

God is God and Jesus is God and Jesus said

"When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. Then the King will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.' Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' Then he will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Matthew 25:31-46​

Eternal punishment is not the same thing as going into eternal life, is it?

I'm always curious why everyone makes this passage about the end of the kosmos, instead the end of the Jewish age. The context building up to this passage is Israel's Judgment (Matthew 21-24). We are told multiple times throughout the gospels that the coming of the son of man (the son of man coming into his kingdom = coming of the Kingdom of God) will happen during his audience's generation: Matthew 10:23, Matthew 16:28, Matthew 24:35, Matthew 26:64, Mark 9:1, Mark 13:30, Luke 9:27, Luke 21:32.

The sheep did not even know they were doing righteous works for Christ: Matthew 25:37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? 39 And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?

So who are the sheep? Isaiah tells us, and Paul elaborates. They are the vessels of mercy (gentiles and remnant elect Jews)
Isaiah 65:1 I was ready to be sought by those who did not ask for me; I was ready to be found by those who did not seek me. I said, “Here am I, here am I, to a nation that did not call on my name.
Romans 9:30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, righteousness through faith;

The goats thought they were doing righteous works for Christ, when really they were not . Look at their self righteous response: Matthew 25:44 Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?’

So who are the goats? Isaiah prophesies and Paul elaborates. They are the vessels of wrath.
Romans 9:27-29 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved; 28 for the Lord will execute his sentence upon the earth with rigor and dispatch.” 29 And as Isaiah predicted,
“If the Lord of hosts had not left us children,we would have fared like Sodom and been made like Gomor′rah.”
Romans 9:31 but that Israel who pursued the righteousness which is based on law did not succeed in fulfilling that law

From Matthew 21-24, Christ is prophesying judgment on Israel. Twice he uses parable to explain who the kingdom will be taken from God's chosen people (Israel) and given to another many other nations producing fruit. Christ gives the "woes" to pharisees and scribes. Christ even tells his disciples that Jerusalem will be surrounded by armies and the temple destroyed. The cutting off of national Israel as God's chosen people, and the destruction of the temple and old covenant have been an aionion punishment. Those who belong to the new covenant (Jew and Gentile) have eternal life. And what is eternal life? John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. It is not just something we get after death, it starts when we are reborn.

 

[Der Alte]

...Info on Early Church Fathers who rejected endless torments or endless annihilation or both has been discussed here before, if you search the forum, & is plentiful on the internet.

No there has been no "Info on Early Church Fathers who rejected endless torments or endless annihilation" posted on this forum because in the first three centuries of the church there is no existing record of multiple ECF who believed in Universal Reconciliation [UR]. The only ECF who believed in UR in the first 3 centuries is Origen and his writings were contradictory on UR, see below.

Justin Martyr- First Apology [a.d. 110-165.]
And hell is a place where those are to be punished who have lived wickedly, and who do not believe that those things which God has taught us by Christ will come to pass
And in what kind of sensation and punishment the wicked are to be, hear from what was said in like manner with reference to this; it is as follows: "Their worm shall not rest, and their fire shall not be quenched; "110 and then shall they repent, when it profits them not.
ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Justin Martyr First Apology Chapter 19
And that it is better to believe even what is impossible to our own nature and to men, than to be unbelieving like the rest of the world, we have learned; for we know that our Master Jesus Christ said, that “what is impossible with men is possible with God,” and, “Fear not them that kill you, and after that can do no more; but fear Him who after death is able to cast both soul and body into hell.” And hell is a place where those are to be punished who have lived wickedly, and who do not believe that those things which God has taught us by Christ will come to pass
Justin Martyr- Second Apology [a.d. 110-165.]
For everywhere, whoever is corrected by father, or neighbour, or child, or friend, or brother, or husband, or wife, for a fault, for being hard to move, for loving pleasure and being hard to urge to what is right (except those who have been persuaded that the unjust and intemperate shall be punished in eternal fire,
A certain woman lived with an intemperate4 husband; she herself, too, having formerly been intemperate. But when she came to the knowledge of the teachings of Christ she became sober-minded, and endeavoured to persuade her husband likewise to be temperate, citing the teaching of Christ, and assuring him that there shall be punishment in eternal fire inflicted upon those who do not live temperately and conformably to right reason.
But since God in the beginning made the race of angels and men with free-will, they will justly suffer in eternal fire the punishment of whatever sins they have committed.
And they, having been shut up in eternal fire, shall suffer their just punishment and penalty. For if they are even now overthrown by men through the name of Jesus Christ, this is an intimation of the punishment in eternal fire which is to be inflicted on themselves and those who serve them. I or thus did both all the prophets foretell, and our own teacher Jesus teach.14
ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Cyprian (A.D. 200-258) Epistle 63
In the Apocalypse also, we read the anger of the Lord threatening, and saying, “If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead or in his hand, the same
shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God mixed in the cup of His anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torments shall ascend up for ever and ever; neither shall they have rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image.”
2. Since, therefore, the Lord threatens these torments, these punishments in the day of judgment, to those who obey the devil and sacrifice to idols, how does he think that he can act as a priest of God who has obeyed and served the priests of the devil; . .
Cyprian Epistle 30 Chapter 7
He has prepared heaven, but He has also prepared hell. He has prepared places of refreshment, but He has also prepared eternal punishment. He has prepared the light that none can approach unto, but He has also prepared the vast and eternal gloom of perpetual night.
Hippolytus [A.D. 170-236] Refutation of all Heresies Book 9 Chapter 23
ut (they assert) that God is a cause of all things, and that nothing is managed or happens without His will. These likewise acknowledge that there is a resurrection of flesh, and that soul is immortal, and that there will be a judgment and conflagration, and that the righteous will be imperishable, but that the wicked will endure everlasting punishment in unquenchable fire.
Hippolytus [A.D. 170-236] Against Plato 3
Of which voice the justification will be seen in the awarding to each that which is just; since to those who have done well shall be assigned righteously eternal bliss, and to the lovers of iniquity shall be given eternal punishment. And the fire which is unquenchable and without end awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which dieth not, and which does not waste the body, but continues bursting forth from the body with unending pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no voice of interceding friends will profit them.
Tatian’s [A.D. 110-172] Address Chapter 13
The soul is not in itself immortal, O Greeks, but mortal. Yet it is possible for it not to die. If, indeed, it knows not the truth, it dies, and is dissolved with the body, but rises again at last at the end of the world with the body, receiving death by punishment in immortality.
Tertullian [A.D. 145-220.] De Principiis Part First
the servants of God, ever with God, clothed upon with the proper substance of eternity; but the profane, and all who are not true worshippers of God, in like manner shall be consigned to the punishment of everlasting fire — that fire which, from its very nature indeed, directly ministers to their incorruptibility. The philosophers are familiar as well as we with the distinction between a common and a secret fire. Thus that which is in common use is far different from that which we see in divine judgments, whether striking as thunderbolts from heaven, or bursting up out of the earth through mountain-tops; for it does not consume what it scorches, but while it burns it repairs. So the mountains continue ever burning; and a person struck by lighting is even now kept safe from any destroying flame. A notable proof this of the fire eternal! a notable example of the endless judgment which still supplies punishment with fuel! The mountains burn, and last. How will it be with the wicked and the enemies of God?
Origen [A.D. 185-230-254] De Principiis Book 2 Chapter 3
nevertheless in such a way, that even the body which rises again of those who are to be destined to everlasting fire or to severe punishments, is by the very change of the resurrection so incorruptible, that it cannot be corrupted and dissolved even by severe punishments. If, then, such be the qualities of that body which will arise from the dead, let us now see what is the meaning of the threatening of eternal fire.
Minucius Felix [A.D. 210] The Octavius Chapter 35
Nor is there either measure or termination to these torments. There the intelligent fire burns the limbs and restores them, feeds on them and nourishes them. As the fires of the thunderbolts strike upon the bodies, and do not consume them; as the fires of Mount Aetna and of Mount Vesuvius, and of burning lands everywhere, glow, but are not wasted; so that penal fire is not fed by the waste of those who burn, but is nourished by the unexhausted eating away of their bodies.
Clement of Rome [a.d. 30-100.]
Envy brought down Dathan and Abiram [I]alive to Hades[/I], through the sedition which they excited against God's servant Moses.
For they went down alive into Hades, and death swallowed them up.
On account of his hospitality and godliness, Lot was saved out of Sodom when all the country round was punished by means of fire and brimstone, the Lord thus making it manifest that He does not forsake those that hope in Him, but ] gives up such as depart from Him to punishment and torture.
ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Clement of Alexandria Exhortation to the Heathen [153-193-217 AD]
And you know not that, of all truths, this is the truest, that the good and godly shall obtain the good reward, in as much as they held goodness in high esteem; while,on the other hand, the wicked shall receive meet punishment. For the author of evil, torment has been prepared; and so the prophet Zecharias threatens him: "He that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee; lo, is not this a brand plucked from the fire? "120 What an infatuated desire, then, for voluntary death is this, rooted in men's minds! Why do they flee to this fatal brand, with which they shall be burned, when it is within their power to live nobly according to God, and not according to custom? For God bestows life freely; but evil custom, ]after our departure from this world, brings on the sinner unavailing remorse with punishment.
He bestows salvation, you sink down into destruction; He confers everlasting life, ]you wait for punishment, and prefer the fire which the Lord "has prepared for the devil and his angels."
ANF02. Fathers of the Second Century: Hermas, Tatian, Athenagoras, Theophilus, and Clement of Alexandria (Entire) - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Clement of Alex. The Instructor [Paedagogus] Bk 2
There was a certain man," said the Lord, narrating, "very rich, who was clothed in purple and scarlet, enjoying himself splendidly every day." This was the hay. "And a certain poor man named Lazarus was laid at the rich man's gate, full of sores, desiring to be filled with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table." This is the grass. Well, ]the rich man was punished in Hades, being made partaker of the fire; while the other flourished again in the Father's bosom.
ANF02. Fathers of the Second Century: Hermas, Tatian, Athenagoras, Theophilus, and Clement of Alexandria (Entire) - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
The Second Epistle of Clement.
For if we do the will of Christ, we shall find rest; otherwise, ]nothing shall deliver us from eternal punishment, if we disobey His commandments. For thus also saith the Scripture in Ezekiel, "If Noah, Job, and Daniel should rise up, they should not deliver their children in captivity."38 Now, if men so eminently righteous are not able by their righteousness to deliver their children, how39 can we hope to enter into the royal residence40 of God unless we keep our baptism holy and undefiled?
ANF10. Bibliographic Synopsis; General Index - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
St. John Chrysostom Homily IX. [347-407]
This is no small subject of enquiry which we propose, but rather about things which are of the first necessity and which ]all men enquire about; namely, whether hell fire have any end. For that it hath no end Christ indeed declared when he said, "Their fire shall not be quenched, and their worm shall not die. [Mark chapter 8, verse 44 and Mark chapter 8, verse 46 and Mark chapter 8, verse 48]
As I said then; that it hath no end, Christ has declared. Paul also saith, in pointing out the eternity of the punishment, that the sinners "shall pay the penalty of destruction, and that for ever" (2 Thessalonians chapter 1, verse 9) And again, (1 Corinthians chapter 6, verse 9) "Be not deceived; neither fornicators. nor adulterers, nor effeminate, shall inherit the the kingdom of God." And also unto the Hebrews he saith, (Hebrews chapter 12, verse 14) "Follow peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man shall see the Lord." And Christ also, to those who said, "In thy Name we have done many wonderful works," saith, "Depart from Me, I know you not, ye workers of iniquity" (St. Matthew chapter 7, verse 22) And the virgins too who were shut out, entered in no more. ]And also about those who gave Him no food, He saith, (St. Matthew chapter 25, verse 46) "They shall go away into everlasting punishment."
NPNF1-12. Saint Chrysostom: Homilies on the Epistles of Paul to the Corinthians - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Origen [a.d. 185-230-254.] Against Celsus. Book V Chap. XVI.
And perhaps, as it is appropriate to Children that some things should be addressed to them in a manner befitting their infantile condition, to convert them, as being of very tender age, to a better course of life; so, to those whom the word terms “the foolish things of the world,” and “the base,” and “the despised,” the just and obvious meaning of the passages relating to punishments is suitable, inasmuch as they cannot receive any other mode of conversion than that which is by fear and the presentation of punishment, and thus be saved from the many evils (which would befall them).29 The Scripture accordingly declares that only those who are unscathed by the fire and the punishments are to remain, - those, viz., whose opinions, and morals, and mind have been purified to the highest degree; while, on the other hand, those of a different nature - those, viz., who, according to their deserts, require the administration of punishment by fire - will be involved in these sufferings with a view to an end which it is suitable for God to bring upon those who have been created in His image, but who have lived in opposition to the will of that nature which is according to His image. And this is our answer to the statement, “All the rest of the race will be completely burnt up, but they alone are to remain.”
Origen Against Celsus. Book VIII. Chap. LII.
For you will find that they have not entirely lost the common notions of right and wrong, of good and evil. Let all men, therefore, when they look upon the universe, observe the constant revolution of the unerring stars, the converse motion of the planets, the constitution of the atmosphere, and its adaptation to the necessities of the animals, and especially of man, with all the innumerable contrivances for the well-being of mankind; and then, after thus considering the order of the universe, let them beware of doing ought which is displeasing to the Creator of this universe, of the soul and its intelligent principle; and let them rest assured that punishment shall be inflicted on the wicked, and rewards shall be bestowed upon the righteous, by Him who deals with every one as he deserves, and who will proportion His rewards to the good that each has done, and to the account of himself that he is able to give. And let all men know that the good shall be advanced to a higher state, and that the wicked shall be delivered over to sufferings and torments, in punishment of their licentiousness and depravity, their cowardice, timidity, and all their follies.
Origen De Principiis. Book IV. Chap. I
23. For perhaps as those who, departing this world in virtue of that death which is common to all, are arranged, in conformity with their actions and deserts - according as they shall be deemed worthy - some in the place which is called “hell,” others in the bosom of Abraham, and in different localities or mansions; so also from those places, as if dying there, if the expression can be used, do they come down from the “upper world” to this “ hell.” For that “ hell” to which the souls of the dead are conducted from this world, is, I believe, on account of this distinction, called the “lower hell” by Scripture, as is said in the book of Psalms: “Thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell” (Cf. Psa_30:3 and Deu_32:22) ​

 

[surrender1]

I do not agree. Can you give specific examples of the parables of Jesus being clearly fictional?

It's the definition of a parable.

 

[lesliedellow]

There are reputable Early Church Fathers, early Church creeds, modern day scholars & translations, amongst many others, that disagree.

What if the Protestant Reformers had followed what was considered the "reputable" opinions of "the church", instead of Scripture? Those "reputable" opinions of "the church" were often in ignorance, biased & motivated by wealth, position & other selfish interests. Who can say it's any different with the translators of those translations you venerate?

Eternal damnationism dominated during the darkness of the Dark Ages & Middle Ages of Inquisitions, Crusades & burning of "heretics" (anyone who dared oppose "the church"). That involved some 1200-1500 years of the 2000 years of church history. Outside of those 1200-1500 years, in times of greater enlightenment, universalism and annihilationism had increased popularity. It seems in recent decades this is especially so and will only increase. Eternal damnationism is on its way out in this internet age.

How does this have any relevance to Matthew 25:46, which was written in the ancient Koine Greek language, not in English? The dictionary didn't even mention the word αἰώνιον & its "range of meanings" are not in dispute. BTW the first two meanings for aeternus above are "of an age, lasting".​

The same thing happens in Daniel 12:2-3 with the Hebrew word OLAM where the context supports the view that both the life & the punishment referred to are of finite duration:

2 From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life
and these to reproach for eonian repulsion." 3 The intelligent shall warn as the warning
of the atmosphere, and those justifying many are as the stars for the eon and further."
(Dan.12:2-3, CLOT)

The Hebrew word for eonian (v.2) & eon (v.3) above is OLAM which is often used of limited durations in the OT & other writings. In verse 3 of Daniel 12 are the words "OLAM and further" showing an example of its *finite duration* in the very next words after Daniel 12:2. Thus, in context, the OLAM occurences in v.2 should both be understood as being of finite duration.

Compare:

OJB Hashem shall reign l’olam va’ed.
Yahweh shall rule to the eon and beyond (Exo 15:18)
Universal Version Bible The Torah By William Petr



Considering that the Greek word aionios has a range of meanings, your reputable biased men should not have rendered the word in Mt.25:46 by their theological opinions. Thus they did not translate the word, but interpreted it. OTOH the versions i posted gave faithful translations & left the interpreting up to the readers as to what specific meaning within the "range of meanings" the word holds in the specific context. What your biased scholars have done is change the words of Scriptures to their own opinions, which is shameful.

"Add not to His words, lest He reason with thee, And thou hast been found false."(Prov.30:6)

"After all, not only Walvoord, Buis, and Inge, but all intelligent students acknowledge that olam and aiõn sometimes refer to limited duration. Here is my point: The supposed special reference or usage of a word is not the province of the translator but of the interpreter. Since these authors themselves plainly indicate that the usage of a word is a matter of interpretation, it follows (1) that it is not a matter of translation, and (2) that it is wrong for any translation effectually to decide that which must necessarily remain a matter of interpretation concerning these words in question. Therefore, olam and aiõn should never be translated by the thought of “endlessness,” but only by that of indefinite duration (as in the anglicized transliteration “eon” which appears in the Concordant Version)."
Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Three




I think i've posted plenty of evidence indicating αἰώνιον punishment in Matthew 25:46 does not refer to an endless punishment.

Mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mt.2:6b ...my people Israel.

If Christ meant "endless" punishment at Mt.25:46, why use the ambiguous aionios? Why not instead use the word aperantos ("endless"; 1 Timothy 1:4)? Or why not use the words "no end" as in Lk1:33b: "And of His kingdom there will be no end"? The answer seems obvious.

"Isn't it ironic that the passage most often used to support everlasting punishment is in fact one strongly opposing it when accurately understood?" (Tom Talbott, author of "The Inescapable Love of God").

Thomas Talbott - Wikipedia
Thomas Talbott- The Inescapable Love of God - 2nd Edition

Cambridge Concise Dictionary of New Testament Greek:
αιωνιος - long ago; eternal (of God); without end, eternal, everlasting.

Pocket Oxford Classical Greek Dictionary:
αιωνιος - eternal.

 

[Der Alte]

Cambridge Concise Dictionary of New Testament Greek:
αιωνιος - long ago; eternal (of God); without end, eternal, everlasting.
Pocket Oxford Classical Greek Dictionary:
αιωνιος - eternal.

I think this is an exercise in futility. I posted the definition of aion/aionios from nine languages sources twice in this thread.
Link: [post #191]
Link:[post #156]
Never been addressed.

 

[GodisLove2]

[QUOTE="GingerBeer, post: 71402789, member: 39]You appear to be using "parable" as a synonym for "imaginary world".

"Yes hell is a real place, and not somewhere you would want to be, but just because a story references a real place, that doesn't make it a factual account. That particular parable is meant to serve as a warning."

Why do you claim it is a parable? How did you conclude that hell is a real place but rich man and Lazarus are fictional characters?

 

[surrender1]

Have you heard that the Bible tells us that our own righteousness is filthy rags in God's eyes? Have you not heard that all have sinned and fall short of God's glory? Have you not heard that to be saved we MUST believe on the Lord Jesus Christ?

We all do wrong. We all fall short. We all are in need of a savior. You e are all broken and contain wickedness in our hearts and actions. There is no hope outside of Christ.

Yes. And Paul wrote that as one trespass led to condemnation for all, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all (Rom. 5:18). Every knee will bow and tongue confess (Rom. 14:11).

Yes all who are not saved will end up in the lake of fire and suffer for Thier sins for ever.

That's not biblical. The only punishment God is capable of is corrective and restorative.

 

[ClementofA]

No there has been no "Info on Early Church Fathers who rejected endless torments or endless annihilation" posted on this forum because in the first three centuries of the church there is no existing record of multiple ECF who believed in Universal Reconciliation [UR]. The only ECF who believed in UR in the first 3 centuries is Origen and his writings were contradictory on UR, see below.

​

Thanks for the biased English only opinions falsely called translations.

You provided no proof of your claims.

Why are you limiting Early Church Fathers to the first 3 centuries?

We've been down this road before, for anyone who wishes to read dozens of posts on the subject between you & I, during 2016.

You've seen the following before. It speaks to those mistranslations you posted:

"Augustine himself, after rejecting apokatastasis, and Basil attest that still late in the fourth and fifth centuries this doctrine was upheld by the vast majority of Christians (immo quam plurimi)."

"Of course there were antiuniversalists also in the ancient church, but scholars must be careful not to list among them — as is the case with the list of “the 68” antiuniversalists repeatedly cited by McC on the basis of Brian Daley’s The Hope of the Early Church — an author just because he uses πῦρ αἰώνιον, κόλασις αἰώνιος, θάνατος αἰώνιος, or the like, since these biblical expressions do not necessarily refer to eternal damnation. Indeed all universalists, from Origen to Gregory Nyssen to Evagrius, used these phrases without problems, for universalists understood these expressions as “otherworldly,” or “long-lasting,” fire, educative punishment, and death. Thus, the mere presence of such phrases is not enough to conclude that a patristic thinker “affirmed the idea of everlasting punishment” (p. 822). Didache mentions the ways of life and death, but not eternal death or torment; Ignatius, as others among “the 68,” never mentions eternal punishment. Ephrem does not speak of eternal damnation, but has many hints of healing and restoration. For Theodore of Mopsuestia, another of “the 68,” if one takes into account also the Syriac and Latin evidence, given that the Greek is mostly lost, it becomes impossible to list him among the antiuniversalists. He explicitly ruled out unending retributive punishment, sine fine et sine correctione."

"I have shown, indeed, that a few of “the 68” were not antiuniversalist, and that the uncertain were in fact universalists, for example, Clement of Alexandria, Apocalypse of Peter, Sibylline Oracles (in one passage), Eusebius, Nazianzen, perhaps even Basil and Athanasius, Ambrose, Jerome before his change of mind, and Augustine in his anti-Manichaean years. Maximus too, another of “the 68,” speaks only of punishment aionios, not aidios and talks about restoration with circumspection after Justinian, also using a persona to express it. Torstein Tollefsen, Panayiotis Tzamalikos, and Maria Luisa Gatti, for instance, agree that he affirmed apokatastasis."

"It is not the case that “the support for universalism is paltry compared with opposition to it” (p. 823). Not only were “the 68” in fact fewer than 68, and not only did many “uncertain” in fact support apokatastasis, but the theologians who remain in the list of antiuniversalists tend to be much less important. Look at the theological weight of Origen, the Cappadocians, Athanasius, or Maximus, for instance, on all of whom much of Christian doctrine and dogmas depends. Or think of the cultural significance of Eusebius, the spiritual impact of Evagrius or Isaac of Nineveh, or the philosophico-theological importance of Eriugena, the only author of a comprehensive treatise of systematic theology and theoretical philosophy between Origen’s Peri Archon and Aquinas’s Summa theologiae. Then compare, for instance, Barsanuphius, Victorinus of Pettau, Gaudentius of Brescia, Maximus of Turin, Tyconius, Evodius of Uzala, or Orientius, listed among “the 68” (and mostly ignorant of Greek). McC’s statement, “there are no unambiguous cases of universalist teaching prior to Origen” (p. 823), should also be at least nuanced, in light of Bardaisan, Clement, the Apocalypse of Peter’s Rainer Fragment, parts of the Sibylline Oracles, and arguably of the NT, especially Paul’s letters."

"Certainly, “there was a diversity of views in the early church on the scope of final salvation.” Tertullian, for instance, did not embrace apokatastasis. But my monograph is not on patristic eschatology or soteriology in general, but specifically on the doctrine of apokatastasis. Thus, I treated the theologians who supported it, and not others." "

The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: The Reviews Start Coming In
SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research

Ilaria Ramelli, The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment from the New Testament to Eriugena (Brill, 2013. 890 pp.)

Scholars directory, with list of publications:

Ilaria L.E. Ramelli - ISNS Scholars Directory

 

[Der Alte]

Thanks for the biased English only opinions falsely called translations.
You provided no proof of your claims.

Talk about biased, nothing you have posted is proof of anything. I gave the name of the ECF I quoted. If you can find a translation by an accredited Greek scholar which differs from what I quoted then post it here otherwise your objections are irrelevant. Nothing more than someone saying "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!" And I have challenged this block copy/paste before. So thanks for the biased English only opinions falsely called translations, you copy/pasted.

Why are you limiting Early Church Fathers to the first 3 centuries?

Simple, the closer to the time of the apostles the better the chance that the writings are correct, the farther away from the time of the apostles the more chance that error has crept in.

We've been down this road before, for anyone who wishes to read dozens of posts on the subject between you & I, during 2016.
You've seen the following before. It speaks to those mistranslations you posted:
"Augustine himself, after rejecting apokatastasis, and Basil attest that still late in the fourth and fifth centuries this doctrine was upheld by the vast majority of Christians (immo quam plurimi)."
"Of course there were antiuniversalists also in the ancient church, but scholars must be careful not to list among them — as is the case with the list of “the 68” antiuniversalists repeatedly cited by McC on the basis of Brian Daley’s The Hope of the Early Church — an author just because he uses πῦρ αἰώνιον, κόλασις αἰώνιος, θάνατος αἰώνιος, or the like, since these biblical expressions do not necessarily refer to eternal damnation. Indeed all universalists, from Origen to Gregory Nyssen to Evagrius, used these phrases without problems, for universalists understood these expressions as “otherworldly,” or “long-lasting,” fire, educative punishment, and death. Thus, the mere presence of such phrases is not enough to conclude that a patristic thinker “affirmed the idea of everlasting punishment” (p. 822). Didache mentions the ways of life and death, but not eternal death or torment; Ignatius, as others among “the 68,” never mentions eternal punishment. Ephrem does not speak of eternal damnation, but has many hints of healing and restoration. For Theodore of Mopsuestia, another of “the 68,” if one takes into account also the Syriac and Latin evidence, given that the Greek is mostly lost, it becomes impossible to list him among the antiuniversalists. He explicitly ruled out unending retributive punishment, sine fine et sine correctione."
"I have shown, indeed, that a few of “the 68” were not antiuniversalist, and that the uncertain were in fact universalists, for example, Clement of Alexandria, Apocalypse of Peter, Sibylline Oracles (in one passage), Eusebius, Nazianzen, perhaps even Basil and Athanasius, Ambrose, Jerome before his change of mind, and Augustine in his anti-Manichaean years. Maximus too, another of “the 68,” speaks only of punishment aionios, not aidios and talks about restoration with circumspection after Justinian, also using a persona to express it. Torstein Tollefsen, Panayiotis Tzamalikos, and Maria Luisa Gatti, for instance, agree that he affirmed apokatastasis."
"It is not the case that “the support for universalism is paltry compared with opposition to it” (p. 823). Not only were “the 68” in fact fewer than 68, and not only did many “uncertain” in fact support apokatastasis, but the theologians who remain in the list of antiuniversalists tend to be much less important. Look at the theological weight of Origen, the Cappadocians, Athanasius, or Maximus, for instance, on all of whom much of Christian doctrine and dogmas depends. Or think of the cultural significance of Eusebius, the spiritual impact of Evagrius or Isaac of Nineveh, or the philosophico-theological importance of Eriugena, the only author of a comprehensive treatise of systematic theology and theoretical philosophy between Origen’s Peri Archon and Aquinas’s Summa theologiae. Then compare, for instance, Barsanuphius, Victorinus of Pettau, Gaudentius of Brescia, Maximus of Turin, Tyconius, Evodius of Uzala, or Orientius, listed among “the 68” (and mostly ignorant of Greek). McC’s statement, “there are no unambiguous cases of universalist teaching prior to Origen” (p. 823), should also be at least nuanced, in light of Bardaisan, Clement, the Apocalypse of Peter’s Rainer Fragment, parts of the Sibylline Oracles, and arguably of the NT, especially Paul’s letters."
"Certainly, “there was a diversity of views in the early church on the scope of final salvation.” Tertullian, for instance, did not embrace apokatastasis. But my monograph is not on patristic eschatology or soteriology in general, but specifically on the doctrine of apokatastasis. Thus, I treated the theologians who supported it, and not others." "

You accuse me of not providing proof there is not one iota of proof, not one single direct quote from any early church father, in this entire copy/paste, which identifies the specific writing by that individual. All this is is some "scholar" saying this guy said this, that guy said that and some other guy said something else.
.....You may observe that I posted direct quotes from the early church fathers and identified the specific writing I was quoting. Let me know when you can provide similar credible, verifiable, historical evidence which is totally absent from your copy/paste.

 

[claninja]

Talk about biased, nothing you have posted is proof of anything. I gave the name of the ECF I quoted. If you can find a translation by an accredited Greek scholar which differs from what I quoted then post it here otherwise your objections are irrelevant. Nothing more than someone saying "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!" And I have challenged this block copy/paste before. So thanks for the biased English only opinions falsely called translations, you copy/pasted.

Simple, the closer to the time of the apostles the better the chance that the writings are correct, the farther away from the time of the apostles the more chance that error has crept in.

You accuse me of not providing proof there is not one iota of proof, not one single direct quote from any early church father, in this entire copy/paste, which identifies the specific writing by that individual. All this is is some "scholar" saying this guy said this, that guy said that and some other guy said something else.
.....You may observe that I posted direct quotes from the early church fathers and identified the specific writing I was quoting. Let me know when you can provide similar credible, verifiable, historical evidence which is totally absent from your copy/paste.

Here are some quotes from Clement of Alexandria from his writings Stromata and Paedogogus

“For all things are ordered both universally and in particular by the Lord of the universe, with a view to the salvation of the universe. But needful corrections, by the goodness of the great, overseeing judge, through the attendant angels, through various prior judgments, through the final judgment, compel even those who have become more callous to repent.”

“So he saves all; but some he converts by penalties, others who follow him of their own will, and in accordance with the worthiness of his honor, that every knee may be bent to him of celestial, terrestrial and infernal things (Phil. 2:10), that is angels, men, and souls who before his advent migrated from this mortal life.”

“For there are partial corrections (padeiai) which are called chastisements (kolasis), which many of us who have been in transgression incur by falling away from the Lord’s people. But as children are chastised by their teacher, or their father, so are we by Providence. But God does not punish (timoria) for punishment (timoria) is retaliation for evil. He chastises, however, for good to those who are chastised collectively and individually.” (Strom, VII, ii; Pedag. I, 8; on I John ii, 2)

 

[Der Alte]

Here are some quotes from Clement of Alexandria from his writings Stromata and Paedogogus
“For all things are ordered both universally and in particular by the Lord of the universe, with a view to the salvation of the universe. But needful corrections, by the goodness of the great, overseeing judge, through the attendant angels, through various prior judgments, through the final judgment, compel even those who have become more callous to repent.”
“So he saves all; but some he converts by penalties, others who follow him of their own will, and in accordance with the worthiness of his honor, that every knee may be bent to him of celestial, terrestrial and infernal things (Phil. 2:10), that is angels, men, and souls who before his advent migrated from this mortal life.”
“For there are partial corrections (padeiai) which are called chastisements (kolasis), which many of us who have been in transgression incur by falling away from the Lord’s people. But as children are chastised by their teacher, or their father, so are we by Providence. But God does not punish (timoria) for punishment (timoria) is retaliation for evil. He chastises, however, for good to those who are chastised collectively and individually.” (Strom, VII, ii; Pedag. I, 8; on I John ii, 2)

From reading these the best we can say is ClementA was contradictory and does not completely support either eternal punishment or universalism.

––• Fragments of Clemens Alexandrinus II. -
Wherefore, he says, “men of this kind are carried about both by winds and violent blasts.”15 “Trees,” he says, “of autumn, without fruit,” - unbelievers, that is, who bear no fruit of fidelity. “Twice dead,” he says: once, namely, when they sinned by transgressing, and a second time when delivered up to punishment, according to the predestined judgments of God; inasmuch as it is to be reckoned death, even when each one does not forthwith deserve the inheritance. … Enoch also, the seventh from Adam,” he says, (Jud_1:14) “prophesied of these.” In these words he verities the prophecy….When Daniel speaks of the people and comes into the presence of the Lord, he does not say this, because he saw God: for it is impossible that any one whose heart is not pure should see God; …
• Clement Alexandrinus Who Is the Rich Man that Shall Be Saved? Chap XXXIII.
For though sparing, and aiming at testing, who will receive meritoriously or not, it is possible for you to neglect some19 that are loved by God; the penalty for which is the punishment of eternal fire.
O the prodigious folly of being ashamed of the Lord! He offers freedom, you flee into bondage; He bestows salvation, you sink down into destruction; He confers everlasting life, you wait for punishment, and prefer the fire which the Lord “has prepared for the devil and his angels.”
• Clement Alexandrinus Exhortation to the Heathen. Chap. VII.
Chap X And you know not that, of all truths, this is the truest, that the good and godly shall obtain the good reward, inasmuch as they held goodness in high esteem; while, on the other hand, the wicked shall receive meet punishment. For the author of evil, torment has been prepared; and so the prophet Zecharias threatens him: “He that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee; lo, is not this a brand plucked from the fire?” (Zec_3:2) What an infatuated desire, then, for voluntary death is this, rooted in men’s minds! Why do they flee to this fatal brand, with which they shall be burned, when it is within their power to live nobly according to God, and not according to custom? For God bestows life freely; but evil custom, after our departure from this world, brings on the sinner unavailing remorse with punishment.
• Clement Alexandrinus The Stromata, Or Miscellanies. Book VI.
Chap VI Did not the same dispensation obtain in Hades, so that even there, all the souls, on hearing the proclamation, might either exhibit repentance, or confess that their punishment was just, because they believed not? And it were the exercise of no ordinary arbitrariness, for those who had departed before the advent of the Lord (not having the Gospel preached to them, and having afforded no ground from themselves, in consequence of believing or not) to obtain either salvation or punishment.​

 

[ClementofA]

You accuse me of not providing proof there is not one iota of proof, not one single direct quote from any early church father, in this entire copy/paste, which identifies the specific writing by that individual.

Did you miss my comment about us debating this in dozens of posts last year? If you want to find "direct quotes", look there. Why would i want to waste my time regurgitating the same again? Boring!

Read the 900 page book with quotes in the original languages (unlike your mistranslated blasphemies), if the subject interests you so much.

Thanks again for the biased English only opinions falsely called translations.

They provide no proof of your claims, as also likewise this:

The Church Fathers on Universalism


Considering that the Greek word aionios has a range of meanings, your reputable biased men should not have rendered the word in Mt.25:46 by their theological opinions. Thus they did not translate the word, but interpreted it. OTOH the versions i posted gave faithful translations & left the interpreting up to the readers as to what specific meaning within the "range of meanings" the word holds in the specific context. What your biased scholars have done is change the words of Scriptures to their own opinions, which is shameful.

"Add not to His words, lest He reason with thee, And thou hast been found false."(Prov.30:6)

"After all, not only Walvoord, Buis, and Inge, but all intelligent students acknowledge that olam and aiõn sometimes refer to limited duration. Here is my point: The supposed special reference or usage of a word is not the province of the translator but of the interpreter. Since these authors themselves plainly indicate that the usage of a word is a matter of interpretation, it follows (1) that it is not a matter of translation, and (2) that it is wrong for any translation effectually to decide that which must necessarily remain a matter of interpretation concerning these words in question. Therefore, olam and aiõn should never be translated by the thought of “endlessness,” but only by that of indefinite duration (as in the anglicized transliteration “eon” which appears in the Concordant Version)."
Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Three


"Jesus warned His disciples to “watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees,” which was their false teaching (Matt. 16:6,12)."

"Not giving heed to Jewish myths, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth." (Titus 1:14). Jesus said re the Pharisees: "...in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." (Mt.15:8-9)

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Tim.3:16)

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf