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Eternal Torment, Annihilation or Universal Reconciliation?

Which one do you believe will happen at the final punishment?

  • Eternal Torment

    Votes: 33 42.3%
  • Annihilation

    Votes: 16 20.5%
  • Universal Reconciliation

    Votes: 10 12.8%
  • Probably annihilation but still hopeful of universal reconciliation

    Votes: 5 6.4%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 10 12.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 5.1%

  • Total voters
    78

GingerBeer

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The Twentieth Century New Testament, 1900
"And these last will go away into onian punishment, but the righteous ?into onian life."
An onian? I know what an onion is and what an aeon is but what is an onian? Is that a typo in the translation or is it in your transcription of it?

The translations from before the beginning of the 20th century are prone to the sorts of error that Young's literal translation has. Many of the translations you've cited do not appear to be well circulated and may be the work of people who do not have a scholarly reputation for their Greek expertise. But if you are keen on well known and well researched translations into English then try these.
(ASV) And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.
(BBE) And these will go away into eternal punishment; but the upright into eternal life.
(CEV) Then Jesus said, "Those people will be punished forever. But the ones who pleased God will have eternal life."
(Darby) And these shall go away into eternal punishment, and the righteous into life eternal.
(DRB) And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.
(ESV) And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
(GNB) These, then, will be sent off to eternal punishment, but the righteous will go to eternal life."
(ISV*) These people will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go [The Gk. lacks will go] into eternal life.
(KJV) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
(NASB) "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
( NIV ) Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.
(NJB) And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the upright to eternal life.'
(NRSV) And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.'
(RSV) And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
(RV) And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.
(TS2009) “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”
(WEB) These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”​
 
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ClementofA

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The last verse read thus in Greek:
καὶ ἀπελεύσονται οὗτοι εἰς κόλασιν αἰώνιον, οἱ δὲ δίκαιοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον.​
If eternal life is eternal then so is eternal punishment eternal. The same word is used for both. The Greek word means
αἰώνιος
aiṓnios; gen. aiōníou, masc.-fem., neut. aiṓnion, adj., also fem. aiōnía, neut. aiṓnion, from aiṓn, age.​
Eternal, perpetual, belonging to the aiṓn, to time in its duration, constant, abiding. When referring to eternal life, it means the life which is God's and hence it is not affected by the limitations of time. Aiō̄́nios is specially predicated of the saving blessings of divine revelation, denoting those things which are not transitory. Meanings:
(I) Spoken chiefly of future time:
(A) Of God (Rom 16:26; 1Ti 6:16; Sept.: Gen 21:33; Isa 40:28).
(B) Of the blessedness of the righteous (Mat 19:29; Mat 25:46; Mar 10:30; Joh 3:15-16, Joh 3:36; Rom 2:7; 2Co 4:17). In some passages this zōḗ aiṓnios (zōḗ [G2222], life), life eternal which is equivalent to the kingdom of God, and the entrance into life, means the entrance into the kingdom (Joh 3:3, Joh 3:5, Joh 3:15; Mat 19:16; Act 13:46).
(C) Of the punishment of the wicked (Mat 18:8; Mat 25:41, Mat 25:46; Mar 3:29; 2Th 1:9; Heb 6:2; Jud 1:7; Sept.: Dan 12:2).
(D) Generally (2Co 4:18; 2Co 5:1; Heb 9:14; Heb 13:20; 1Jn 1:2; Rev 14:6; in Phm 1:15 aiṓnion, an adv. meaning forever, always). In the Sept.: diathḗkē aiṓnios (G1242), testament, covenant, meaning eternal covenant (Gen 9:16; Gen 17:7).​
The translation "eternal punishment" is correct and so is the translation "eternal life" correct. You can't have the latter without also acknowledging the former.


"This popular assertion, however, is fallacious. The fact that such a claim should so long endure and conquer, is proof of the power of deception."

Your lexicon is "The Complete Word Study Dictionary" (Spiros Zhodiates). Even it says the
word aionion is "from aion, age" and includes the meanings of "perpetual, belonging to the aion, to time in its duration, constant, abiding". So like the vast majority of learned sources, it also agrees the word, & its noun, may refer to a duration which is of a limited time period that has an end. The real issue here, then, is whether or not the word means a limited time period in the context of Matthew 25:31-46 in regards to punishment. That is something that should be a matter of serious study rather than assumptions based on what my pastor or bible study group assumes to be the case.

Considering the Greek word kolasis ("punishment", Mt.25:46, KJV) can refer to a corrective punishment, that should tell the reader of Matthew 25:46 what the possible duration of aionios ("everlasting", KJV) is & that it may refer to a finite punishment. Why? Because since it is corrective, it is with the purpose of bringing the person corrected to salvation. Once saved the person no longer has need of such a punishment & it ends. So it isn't "everlasting".[Or if it "everlasting", it is only everlasting in its positive effect]. Therefore this passage could just as easily support universalism as anything else.

From a review of a book by Ilaria Ramelli, namely The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment from the New Testament to Eriugena (Brill, 2013. 890 pp):

"...in a passage in Origen in which he speaks of “life after aionios life” (160). As a native speaker of Greek he does not see a contradiction in such phrasing; that is because aionios life does not mean “unending, eternal life,” but rather “life of the next age.” Likewise the Bible uses the word kolasis to describe the punishment of the age to come. Aristotle distinguished kolasis from timoria, the latter referring to punishment inflicted “in the interest of him who inflicts it, that he may obtain satisfaction.” On the other hand, kolasis refers to correction, it “is inflicted in the interest of the sufferer” (quoted at 32). Thus Plato can affirm that it is good to be punished (to undergo kolasis), because in this way a person is made better (ibid.). This distinction survived even past the time of the writing of the New Testament, since Clement of Alexandria affirms that God does not timoreitai, punish for retribution, but he does kolazei, correct sinners (127)."
Ilaria Ramelli, The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment from the New Testament to Eriugena | Nemes | Journal of Analytic Theology

If Christ meant "endless" punishment at Mt.25:46, why use the ambiguous aionios? Why not instead use the word aperantos ("endless"; 1 Timothy 1:4)? Or why not use the words "no end" as in Lk1:33b: "And of His kingdom there will be no end"? The answer seems obvious.


"In addition, Augustine's reasoning does not hold up in light of Ro. 16:25, 26 and Hab. 3:6. Here, in both cases, the same word is used twice—with God and with something temporal. "In accord with the revelation of a secret hushed in times eonian, yet manifested now…according to the injunction of the eonian God" (Ro. 16:25, 26 CLT). An eonian secret revealed at some point cannot be eternal even though it is revealed by the eonian God. Eonian does not make God eternal, but God makes eonian eternal. "And the everlasting mountains were scattered.…His ways are everlasting" (Hab. 3:6). Mountains are not eternal, though they will last a very long time. God's ways however, are eternal, because He is eternal." Kolasis

"Augustine raised the argument that since aionios in Mt. 25:46 referred to both life and punishment, it had to carry the same duration in both cases.5 However, he failed to consider that the duration of aionios is determined by the subject to which it refers. For example, when aionios referred to the duration of Jonah’s entrapment in the fish, it was limited to three days. To a slave, aionios referred to his life span. To the Aaronic priesthood, it referred to the generation preceding the Melchizedek priesthood. To Solomon’s temple, it referred to 400 years. To God it encompasses and transcends time altogether."

"Thus, the word cannot have a set value. It is a relative term and its duration depends upon that with which it is associated. It is similar to what “tall” is to height. The size of a tall building can be 300 feet, a tall man six feet, and a tall dog three feet. Black Beauty was a great horse, Abraham Lincoln a great man, and Yahweh the GREAT God. Though God is called “great,” the word “great” is neither eternal nor divine. The horse is still a horse. An adjective relates to the noun it modifies. In relation to God, “great” becomes GREAT only because of who and what God is. This silences the contention that aion must always mean forever because it modifies God. God is described as the God of Israel and the God of Abraham. This does not mean He is not the God of Gentiles, or the God of you and me. Though He is called the God of the “ages,” He nonetheless remains the God who transcends the ages." Eternity in the Bible by Gerry Beauchemin – Hope Beyond Hell
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Jude 7 speaks of the fire that destroyed Sodom as an example of "aionion fire" (the same words aionion fire used in Mt.25:41, compare v.46). Did Sodom burn forever? No.

Philo was contemporary with Christ & we have this translation of his words which use the same words Christ used at Mt.25:46:

"It is better absolutely never to make any promise at all than not to assist another willingly, for no blame attaches to the one, but great dislike on the part of those who are less powerful, and intense hatred and long enduring punishment [kolasis aiónios] from those who are more powerful, is the result of the other line of conduct." Philo: Appendix 2: Fragments

In the year 544 A.D. the emperor Justinian wrote a letter:

"It is conceded that the half-heathen emperor held to the idea of endless misery, for he proceeds not only to defend, but to define the doctrine.2 He does not merely say, "We believe in aionion kolasin," for that was just what Origen himself taught. Nor does he say "the word aionion has been misunderstood; it denotes endless duration," as he would have said, had there been such a disagreement. But, writing in Greek, with all the words of that abundant language from which to choose, he says: "The holy church of Christ teaches an endless aeonian (ateleutetos aionios) life to the righteous, and endless (ateleutetos) punishment to the wicked." If he supposed aionios denoted endless duration, he would not have added the stronger word to it. The fact that he qualified it by ateleutetos, demonstrated that as late as the sixth century the former word did not signify endless duration. Chapter 21 - Unsuccessful Attempts to Suppress Universalism

Early Church Father universalists who were Greek scholars & many others of the time did not see Mt.25:46 contradicting their belief:

"The first Christians, it will be seen, said in their creeds, "I believe in the æonian life;" later, they modified the phrase "æonian life," to "the life of the coming æon," showing that the phrases are equivalent. But not a word of endless punishment. "The life of the age to come" was the first Christian creed, and later, Origen himself (an Early Church Father universalist) declares his belief in æonian punishment, and in æonian life beyond. How, then, could æonian punishment have been regarded as endless?" Another Aionios Thread - These Things Go On Forever


"Adolph Deissman gives this account: "Upon a lead tablet found in the Necropolis at Adrumetum in the Roman province of Africa, near Carthage, the following inscription, belonging to the early third century, is scratched in Greek: 'I am adjuring Thee, the great God, the eonian, and more than eonian (epaionion) and almighty...' If by eonian, endless time were meant, then what could be more than endless time?" "Chapter Nine
 
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GingerBeer

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The real issue here, then, is whether or not the word means a limited time period in the context of Matthew 25:31-46 in regards to punishment. That is something that should be a matter of serious study rather than assumptions based on what my pastor or bible study group assumes to be the case.
Indeed that is so, the real issue is what "aionion" means and the translators of nearly every reputable English bible* say it means "eternal" in fact the English word "eternal" is derived thus
eternal (adj.)
late 14c., from Old French eternel "eternal," or directly from Late Latin aeternalis, from Latin aeternus "of an age, lasting, enduring, permanent, everlasting, endless," contraction of aeviternus "of great age," from aevum "age" (see eon). Used since Middle English both of things or conditions without beginning or end and things with a beginning only but no end. A parallel form, Middle English eterne, is from Old French eterne (cognate with Spanish eterno), directly from Latin aeternus. Related: Eternally. The Eternal (n.) for "God" is attested from 1580s.​
The English word eternal and the Greek word αἰώνιον have similar ranges of meaning. And once again it is significant that the word αἰώνιον is used both for punishment and for life the former being eternal punishment for the wicked and the latter being eternal life [with God] for the righteous.

* (ASV) And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.
(BBE) And these will go away into eternal punishment; but the upright into eternal life.
(CEV) Then Jesus said, "Those people will be punished forever. But the ones who pleased God will have eternal life."
(Darby) And these shall go away into eternal punishment, and the righteous into life eternal.
(DRB) And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.
(ESV) And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
(GNB) These, then, will be sent off to eternal punishment, but the righteous will go to eternal life."
(ISV*) These people will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go [The Gk. lacks will go] into eternal life.
(KJV) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
(NASB) "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
( NIV ) Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.
(NJB) And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the upright to eternal life.'
(NRSV) And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.'
(RSV) And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
(RV) And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.
(WEB) These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”​
Scholars who produced reputable English language bibles chose 'eternal' and 'everlasting' as the appropriate word to translate αἰώνιον in the context of Matthew 25:31-46 and specifically for the two occurrences of αἰώνιον in verse 46. It is not sufficient to seek out non-contextual definitions from a Greek lexicon as if one thereby clinches the argument and proves that αἰώνιον means "long lasting" when in fact in the context within Matthew 25:31-46 αἰώνιον means eternal/everlasting.
 
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rjs330

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So you must believe then that the most loving person in the world, even if he never came to know Christ or profess Christ, will be in heaven? Because that person isn't evil he just doesn't have the right information and didn't come to the right answer. But he's the most loving person in the world. That's with the traditional theology says. That not just the wicked guy who is evil, but the guy he steals a pack of gum, and the guy who cheated on his history exam, and the guy who really never did anything wrong in the world but was raised in the wrong religion. All these guys who aren't wicked are supposedly tortured for eternity because they didn't say the right things according to the churchs' standards.

Have you heard that the Bible tells us that our own righteousness is filthy rags in God's eyes? Have you not heard that all have sinned and fall short of God's glory? Have you not heard that to be saved we MUST believe on the Lord Jesus Christ?

We all do wrong. We all fall short. We all are in need of a savior. You e are all broken and contain wickedness in our hearts and actions. There is no hope outside of Christ.

Yes all who are not saved will end up in the lake of fire and suffer for Thier sins for ever. How they will suffer, exactly the full manner of suffering is not know exactly. The Bible does speak of fire and wailing and gnashing of teeth. Doesn't sound pleasant.
 
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Radrook

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Some find it a bit difficult to imagine an almighty being who created all things and has an entire universe to govern being constantly fuming about every meticulous thought we think or small decision we make and even roasting people alive forever if they don't do as he demands. To them it. comes across as some kind of obsessive compulsive disorder with a dash of sadism.

I would tend to agree with the eternal torture part but not with the part about caring about how humans think and behave. After all, thoughts lead to emotions and emotions to behavior and behavior which is wicked is disruptive and tantamount to lawlessness.

So it's logical to expect a just God to be concerned about how his subjects are behaving because he cares about their welfare.
 
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lesliedellow

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I do not agree. Can you give specific examples of the parables of Jesus being clearly fictional?

How about all of them? A parable is supposed to be a short story with a point to it - not reportage. Although there must have been countless examples of farmers who went out to sow seeds in their fields.
 
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GingerBeer

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How about all of them? A parable is supposed to be a short story with a point to it - not reportage. Although there must have been countless examples of farmers who went out to sow seeds in their fields.
The parables are stories as you say. They are stories that may (or could) be factual. They are not imaginary worlds like a fairy tale or science fiction. The story of the rich man and Lazarus is true to reality and it may well be factual history. But your argument appears to be that because it is a parable it is like a fable or a fairy tale. The events in the story are true to life yet you say "it is a parable" as if that proves that the place to which the rich man went after he died does not exist and that "Abraham's bosom" is not what the story says it is. You appear to be using "parable" as a synonym for "imaginary world".
 
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lesliedellow

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[QUOTE="GingerBeer, post: 71402789, member: 39]You appear to be using "parable" as a synonym for "imaginary world".[/QUOTE]

Yes hell is a real place, and not somewhere you would want to be, but just because a story references a real place, that doesn't make it a factual account. That particular parable is meant to serve as a warning.
 
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Adstar

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Luke 16 records two parables, both starting with identical phrases: "there was a certain rich man.."
The PARABLE of the rich man and Lazarus is teaching the rejection of the two tribes (the rich man), and the continued rejection of the ten tribes (the five brothers), while the gentiles (Lazarus) will be welcomed into the Abrahamic promises (Abraham's bosom).
Exactly.
Hell is the grave. The grave is where ALL people wait for resurrection;
John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

AFTER the "lake of fire" God eliminates death as an option, and pain, sorrow or crying as a condition;

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The "lake of fire" cannot be put out, it must burn out. The result is, the wicked are "burned up":

Mal 4:1-3 For, behold, the day cometh, it burneth as a furnace; and all the proud, and all that work wickedness, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith Jehovah of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But unto you that fear my name shall the sun of righteousness arise with healing in its wings; and ye shall go forth, and gambol as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I make, saith Jehovah of hosts.

2 Peter 3:9-13 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing that these things are thus all to be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in (all) holy living and godliness,
12 looking for and earnestly desiring the coming of the day of God, by reason of which the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 But, according to his promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Nope..The lake of fire is eternal and all who are cast into it shall be tormented in it for eternity..
 
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Der Alte

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Your lexicon is "The Complete Word Study Dictionary" (Spiros Zhodiates). Even it says the
word aionion is "from aion, age" and includes the meanings of "perpetual, belonging to the aion, to time in its duration, constant, abiding". So like the vast majority of learned sources, it also agrees the word, & its noun, may refer to a duration which is of a limited time period that has an end. The real issue here, then, is whether or not the word means a limited time period in the context ofMatthew 25:31-46 in regards to punishment. That is something that should be a matter of serious study rather than assumptions based on what my pastor or bible study group assumes to be the case.
..
Nine language sources cited, never refuted!. Fourteen total references! 1. NAS Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries, 2. Thayer’s Lexicon, 3. Vine’s Expository of Biblical Words, 3 references, 4. Louw-Nida Greek English Lexicon of the NT based on Semantic Domains, 2 references, 5. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, 6. Abridged Greek lexicon, Liddell-Scott, 7. Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, 3 references, 8. Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich, Danker Greek English Lexicon of the NT and other Early Christian Literature, 9. Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the NT.
Aion, Aionios and the lexicons:
166. αιωνιος aionios; from 165; agelong, eternal:— eternal(66), eternity(1), forever(1).

Thomas, Robert L., Th.D., General Editor, New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries,
166 aionios- αιωνιος
1) without beginning and end, what has always been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting

---Thayers
2. αιωνιος aionios [166] "describes duration, either undefined but not endless, as in <Rom. 16:25; 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 1:2>; or undefined because endless as in <Rom. 16:26>, and the other sixty-six places in the NT.
"The predominant meaning of αιωνιος , that in which it is used everywhere in the NT, save the places noted above, may be seen in <2 Cor. 4:18>, where it is set in contrast with proskairos, lit., `for a season,' and in <Philem. 15>, where only in the NT it is used without a noun. Moreover it is used of persons and things which are in their nature endless, as, e. g., of God, <Rom. 16:26>; of His power, <1 Tim. 6:16>, and of His glory, <1 Pet. 5:10>; of the Holy Spirit, <Heb. 9:14>; of the redemption effected by Christ, <Heb. 9:12>, and of the consequent salvation of men, <5:9>, as well as of His future rule, <2 Pet. 1:11>, which is elsewhere declared to be without end, <Luke 1:33>; of the life received by those who believe in Christ, <John 3:16>, concerning whom He said, `they shall never perish,' <10:28>, and of the resurrection body, <2 Cor. 5:1>, elsewhere said to be `immortal,' <1 Cor. 15:53>, in which that life will be finally realized, <Matt. 25:46; Titus 1:2>.
αιωνιος is also used of the sin that `hath never forgiveness,' <Mark 3:29>, and of the judgment of God, from which there is no appeal, <Heb. 6:2>, and of the fire, which is one of its instruments, <Matt. 18:8; 25:41; Jude 7>, and which is elsewhere said to be `unquenchable,' <Mark 9:43>.
"The use of αιωνιος here shows that the punishment referred to in <2 Thes. 1:9>, is not temporary, but final, and, accordingly, the phraseology shows that its purpose is not remedial but retributive."
From Notes on Thessalonians, by Hogg and Vine, pp 232, 233. (from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words) (Copyright (C) 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers)
67.96 αιωνιος aji>vdio", on; aijwvnio", on: pertaining to an unlimited duration of time - ‘eternal.’
aji>vdio"ò h{ te aji>vdio" aujtou` duvnami" kai; qeiovth" ‘his eternal power and divine nature’ Ro 1.20.
aijwvnio"ò blhqh`nai eij" to; pu`r to; aijwvnion ‘be thrown into the eternal fire’ Mt 18.8; tou` aijwnivou qeou` ‘of the eternal God’ Ro 16.26.
The most frequent use of αιωνιος in the NT is with zwhv ‘life,’ for example, i{na pa`" oJ pisteuvwn ejn aujtw/` e[ch/ zwh;n aijwvnion ‘so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life’ Jn 3.15. In combination with zwhv there is evidently not only a temporal element, but also a qualitative distinction. In such contexts, αιωνιος evidently carries certain implications associated with αιωνιος in relationship to divine and supernatural attributes. If one translates ‘eternal life’ as simply ‘never dying,’ there may be serious misunderstandings, since persons may assume that ‘never dying’ refers only to physical existence rather than to ‘spiritual death.’ Accordingly, some translators have rendered ‘eternal life’ as ‘unending real life,’ so as to introduce a qualitative distinction.

Louw, Johannes P. and Nida, Eugene A., Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament based on Semantic Domains, (New York: United Bible Societies) 1988, 1989.
αιωνιος aionios. An adjective meaning “eternal,” and found in the LXX in Pss. 24; 77:5; Gen. 21:33, aionios in the NT is used 1. of God (Rom. 16:26), 2. of divine possessions and gifts (2 Cor. 4:18; Heb. 9:14; 1 Pet. 5:10; 1 Tim. 6:16; 2 Th. 2:16, and 3. of the eternal kingdom (2 Pet. 1:11), inheritance (Heb. 9:15), body (2 Cor. 5:1), and even judgment (Heb. 6:2, though cf. Mt. 18:8; 2 Th. 1:9, where the sense is perhaps “unceasing”).
Kittel, Gerhard, and Friedrich, Gerhard, Editors, The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Abridged in One Volume, (Grand Rapids, Michigan: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company) 1985.
αιωνιος aionios ", ov and a, ov, lasting for an age (aion 3), Plat.: ever-lasting, eternal, Id.
Liddell, H. G., and Scott, Abridged Greek-English Lexicon, (Oxford: Oxford University Press) 1992.
166 aionios { ahee-o’-nee-os} αιωνιος from 165; TDNT - 1:208,31; adj
AV - eternal 42, everlasting 25, the world began + 5550 2, since the world began + 5550 1, for ever 1; 71
GK - 173 { aionios }
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting

Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1995.
CL The Gk. word αιων aion, which is probably derived from aei, … It thus appeared appropriate to later philosophers to use the word both for the dim and distant past, the beginning of the world, and for the far future, eternity (e.g. Plato, Tim. 37d).
Plato (Timoeus, ed. Steph. 3, 37, or ed. Baiter, Orell. et Winck. 712) says, speaking of the universe: …The nature therefore of the animal (living being) was eternal (aionios, before aidios), and this indeed it was impossible to adapt to what was produced (to genneto, to what had a beginning); he thinks to make a moveable image of eternity (aionos), and in adoring the heavens he makes of the eternity permanent in unity a certain eternal image moving in number, … And after unfolding this, he says (p. 38): "But these forms of time imitating eternity (aiona), and rolling round according to number, have had a beginning (gegonen).... For that pattern exists for all eternity (panta aiona estin on), but on the other hand, that which is perpetual (dia telous) throughout all time has had a beginning, and is, and will be." … Aion is what is properly eternal, in contrast with a divine imitation of it in ages of time, the result of the creative action of God which imitated the uncreate as nearly as He could in created ages.. ]
In Plato the term is developed so as to represent a timeless, immeasurable and transcendent super-time, an idea of time in itself. Plutarch and the earlier Stoics appropriate this understanding, and from it the Mysteries of Aion, the god of eternity, could be celebrated in Alexandria, and gnosticism could undertake its own speculations on time.
* * *

NIDNTT Colin Brown
Aristotle peri ouranou, 1, 9 (ed. Bekker, 1, 279): "Time," he says, "is the number of movement, but there is no movement without a physical body. But outside heaven it has been shewn that there is not, nor possibly can come into existence, any body. It is evident then that there is neither place, nor void, nor time outside. Wherefore neither in place are things there formed by nature; nor does time cause them to grow old: neither is there any change of anything of those things which are arranged beyond the outermost orbit; but unchangeable, and subject to no influence, having the best and most independent life, they continue for all eternity (aiona). … According to the same word (logon) the completeness of the whole heaven, and the completeness which embraces all time and infinitude is aion, having received this name from existing for ever (apo tou aei einai), immortal (athanatos, undying), and divine." In 10 he goes on to shew that that beginning to be (genesthai) involves the not existing always, which I refer to as shewing what he means by aion. He is proving the unchangeable eternity of the visible universe. That is no business of mine; but it shews what he means by eternity (aion). It cannot be aidion and genesthai at the same time, when, as in Plato, aidios is used as equivalent to aionios
Philo, the sentence is in De Mundo, 7, en aioni de oute pareleluthen ouden, oute mellei, alla monon iphesteken. Such a definition needs no explanation: in eternity nothing is passed, nothing is about to be, but only subsists. This has the importance of being of the date and Hellenistic Greek of the New Testament, as the others give the regular, and at the same time philosophical force of the word, aion, aionios. Eternity, unchangeable, with no 'was' nor 'will be,' is its proper force, that it can be applied to the whole existence of a thing, so that nothing of its nature was before true or after is true, to telos to periechon. But its meaning is eternity, and eternal. … That is, things that are for a time are put in express contrast with aionia, which are not for a time, be it age or ages, but eternal. Nothing can be more decisive of its positive and specific meaning.
0166 aionios αιωνιος without beginning or end, eternal, everlasting

LEH lxx lexicon
UBS GNT Dict. # 169 (Str#166)
aionios eternal (of quality rather than of time); unending, everlasting, for all time
αιωνιος (iva Pla., Tim. 38b; Jer 39:40; Ezk 37:26; 2 Th 2:16; Hb 9:12; as v.l. Ac 13:48; 2 Pt 1:11; Bl-D. §59, 2; Mlt.-H. 157), on eternal (since Hyperid. 6, 27; Pla.; inscr., pap., LXX; Ps.-Phoc. 112; Test. 12 Patr.; standing epithet for princely, esp. imperial power: Dit., Or. Index VIII; BGU 176; 303; 309; Sb 7517, 5 [211/2 ad] kuvrio" aij.; al. in pap.; Jos., Ant. 7, 352).

1. without beginning crovnoi" aij. long ages ago Ro 16:25; pro; crovnwn aij. before time began 2 Ti 1:9; Tit 1:2 (on crovno" aij. cf. Dit., Or. 248, 54; 383, 10).
2. without beginning or end; of God (Ps.-Pla., Tim. Locr. 96c qeo;n t. aijwvnion; Inscr. in the Brit. Mus. 894 aij. k. ajqavnato"; Gen 21:33; Is 26:4; 40:28; Bar 4:8 al.; Philo, Plant. 8; 74; Sib. Or., fgm. 3, 17 and 4; PGM 1, 309; 13, 280) Ro 16:26; of the Holy Spirit in Christ Hb 9:14. qrovno" aij. 1 Cl 65:2 (cf. 1 Macc 2:57).
3. without end (Diod. S. 1, 1, 5; 5, 73, 1; 15, 66, 1 dovxa aij. everlasting fame; in Diod. S. 1, 93, 1 the Egyptian dead are said to have passed to their aij. …keep someone forever Phlm 15 (cf. Job 40:28). …On the other hand of eternal life (Maximus Tyr. 6, 1d qeou` zwh; aij.; Diod. S. 8, 15, 3 life meta; to;n qavnaton lasts eij" a{panta aijw`na; Da 12:2; 4 Macc 15:3; PsSol 3, 12; Philo, …carav IPhld inscr.; doxavzesqai aijwnivw/ e[rgw/ be glorified by an everlasting deed IPol 8:1. DHill, Gk. Words and Hebr. Mngs. ’67, 186-201. M-M.

Bauer, Walter, Gingrich, F. Wilbur, and Danker, Frederick W., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, (Chicago: University of Chicago Press) 1979.
BIBLE STUDY MANUALS - AIONIOS -- AN IN DEPTH STUDY
αιωνιος

• Strong's - Greek 165
NRSV (the uses of the word in various contexts in the NRSV text):
again, age, course, end, eternal, forever, permanent, time, world, worlds
CGED (A Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament, by Barclay M. Newman, New York: United Bible Societies, 1993, page 5):
age; world order; eternity (ap aion or pro aion, from the beginning; eis aion, and the strengthened form eis tous aion, ton aion, always, forever);
The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology [NIDNTT], Volume 3 (edited by Colin Brown, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan, 1978, page 827, 830):
In Plato the term [aion] is developed so as to represent a timeless, immeasurable and transcendent super-time, an idea of time in itself. Plutarch and other earlier Stoics appropriate this understanding, and from it the Mysteries of Aion, the god of eternity, could be celebrated in Alexandria, and gnosticism could undertake its own speculations on time.
The statements of the Johannine [John, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John] writings, … reveal a strong inclination to conceive of a timeless, because post-temporal, eternity… As in the OT [Old Testament], these statements reveal the background conviction that God's life never ends, i.e. that everything belonging to him can also never come to an end
aion - αιων - age, world

A. "for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity; the worlds, universe; period of time, age."
Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1995, [Online] Available: Logos Library System​
.​
• aionion, aionios – αιωνιον, αιωνιος - eternal

B. "aionios," the adjective corresponding, denoting eternal. It is used of that which in nature is endless, as, e.g., of God, (Rom. 16:26), His power, (1 Tim. 6:16), His glory, (1 Pet. 5:10), the Holy Spirit, (Heb. 9:14), redemption, (Heb. 9:12), salvation, (5:9), life in Christ, (John 3:16), the resurrection body, (2 Cor. 5:1), the future rule of Christ, (2 Pet. 1:11), which is declared to be without end, (Luke 1:33), of sin that never has forgiveness, (Mark 3:29), the judgment of God, (Heb. 6:2), and of fire, one of its instruments, (Matt. 18:8; 25:41; Jude 7)."
i. Rom. 16:26 - " . . .according to the commandment of the eternal God. . ."
ii. 1 Tim. 6:16 - ". . . To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen."
iii. 1 Pet. 5:10 - " . . . who called you to His eternal glory in Christ,"
iv. Mark 3:29 - " . . . never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin."
v. etc.
SOURCE: Vine, W. E., Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, (Grand Rapids, MI: Fleming H. Revell) 1981, Available: Logos Library System​
.​
• "describes duration, either undefined but not endless, as in Rom. 16:25; 2 Tim. 1:9; Tit. 1:2; or undefined because endless as in Rom. 16:26, and the other sixty–six places in the N.T.
A. Rom. 16:25 - " . . which has been kept secret for long ages past,"
B. Rom 16:26 - ". . . according to the commandment of the eternal God,"
C. 2 Tim. 1:9 - ". . . which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,"
D. Titus 1:2 - "the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised" long ages ago"
SOURCE: Vine, W. E., Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, (Grand Rapids, MI: Fleming H. Revell) 1981, [Online] Available: Logos Library System​
)​
• Eis tous aionios ton aionion – εις τους αιωνας των αιωνιωον
- Forever and Ever, Lit. "into the age of the ages"
A. "unlimited duration of time, with particular focus upon the future - ‘always, forever, forever and ever, eternally."
B. Phil. 4:20 - ". . .to our God and Father be the glory forever and ever."
C. Rev. 19:3 - " . . .Her smoke rises up forever and ever."
D. Rev. 20:20 - "And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
SOURCE: Louw, Johannes P. and Nida, Eugene A., Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament based on Semantic Domains, (New York: United Bible Societies) 1988, 1989, Available: Logos Library System​
.​
 
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Dartman

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Nope..The lake of fire is eternal and all who are cast into it shall be tormented in it for eternity..
Not possible. When God renews the earth He ends all pain, sorrow and death;
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The wicked are "burned up", they are "ashes", there is NOTHING LEFT;

Mal 4:1-3 For, behold, the day cometh, it burneth as a furnace; and all the proud, and all that work wickedness, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith Jehovah of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But unto you that fear my name shall the sun of righteousness arise with healing in its wings; and ye shall go forth, and gambol as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I make, saith Jehovah of hosts.


This is the same "day of Jehovah/God" Peter discusses;

2 Peter 3:7 but the heavens that now are, and the earth, by the same word have been stored up for fire, being reserved against the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:11-13 Seeing that these things are thus all to be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in (all) holy living and godliness, 12 looking for and earnestly desiring the coming of the day of God, by reason of which the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 But, according to His promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
 
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ClementofA

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Indeed that is so, the real issue is what "aionion" means and the translators of nearly every reputable English bible* say it means "eternal"

There are reputable Early Church Fathers, early Church creeds, modern day scholars & translations, amongst many others, that disagree.

What if the Protestant Reformers had followed what was considered the "reputable" opinions of "the church", instead of Scripture? Those "reputable" opinions of "the church" were often in ignorance, biased & motivated by wealth, position & other selfish interests. Who can say it's any different with the translators of those translations you venerate?

Eternal damnationism dominated during the darkness of the Dark Ages & Middle Ages of Inquisitions, Crusades & burning of "heretics" (anyone who dared oppose "the church"). That involved some 1200-1500 years of the 2000 years of church history. Outside of those 1200-1500 years, in times of greater enlightenment, universalism and annihilationism had increased popularity. It seems in recent decades this is especially so and will only increase. Eternal damnationism is on its way out in this internet age.




in fact the English word "eternal" is derived thus
eternal (adj.)
late 14c., from Old French eternel "eternal," or directly from Late Latin aeternalis, from Latin aeternus "of an age, lasting, enduring, permanent, everlasting, endless," contraction of aeviternus "of great age," from aevum "age" (see eon). Used since Middle English both of things or conditions without beginning or end and things with a beginning only but no end. A parallel form, Middle English eterne, is from Old French eterne (cognate with Spanish eterno), directly from Latin aeternus. Related: Eternally. The Eternal (n.) for "God" is attested from 1580s.
The English word eternal and the Greek word αἰώνιον have similar ranges of meaning.

How does this have any relevance to Matthew 25:46, which was written in the ancient Koine Greek language, not in English? The dictionary didn't even mention the word αἰώνιον & its "range of meanings" are not in dispute. BTW the first two meanings for aeternus above are "of an age, lasting".​



And once again it is significant that the word αἰώνιον is used both for punishment and for life the former being eternal punishment for the wicked and the latter being eternal life [with God] for the righteous.

The same thing happens in Daniel 12:2-3 with the Hebrew word OLAM where the context supports the view that both the life & the punishment referred to are of finite duration:

2 From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life
and these to reproach for eonian repulsion." 3 The intelligent shall warn as the warning
of the atmosphere, and those justifying many are as the stars for the eon and further."
(Dan.12:2-3, CLOT)

The Hebrew word for eonian (v.2) & eon (v.3) above is OLAM which is often used of limited durations in the OT & other writings. In verse 3 of Daniel 12 are the words "OLAM and further" showing an example of its *finite duration* in the very next words after Daniel 12:2. Thus, in context, the OLAM occurences in v.2 should both be understood as being of finite duration.

Compare:

OJB Hashem shall reign l’olam va’ed.
Yahweh shall rule to the eon and beyond (Exo 15:18)
Universal Version Bible The Torah By William Petr

[snip - biased opinions of men, not faithful translations, but rather interpretations of the holy scriptures]
Scholars who produced reputable English language bibles chose 'eternal' and 'everlasting' as the appropriate word to translate αἰώνιον in the context of Matthew 25:31-46 and specifically for the two occurrences of αἰώνιον in verse 46.

Considering that the Greek word aionios has a range of meanings, your reputable biased men should not have rendered the word in Mt.25:46 by their theological opinions. Thus they did not translate the word, but interpreted it. OTOH the versions i posted gave faithful translations & left the interpreting up to the readers as to what specific meaning within the "range of meanings" the word holds in the specific context. What your biased scholars have done is change the words of Scriptures to their own opinions, which is shameful.

"Add not to His words, lest He reason with thee, And thou hast been found false."(Prov.30:6)

"After all, not only Walvoord, Buis, and Inge, but all intelligent students acknowledge that olam and aiõn sometimes refer to limited duration. Here is my point: The supposed special reference or usage of a word is not the province of the translator but of the interpreter. Since these authors themselves plainly indicate that the usage of a word is a matter of interpretation, it follows (1) that it is not a matter of translation, and (2) that it is wrong for any translation effectually to decide that which must necessarily remain a matter of interpretation concerning these words in question. Therefore, olam and aiõn should never be translated by the thought of “endlessness,” but only by that of indefinite duration (as in the anglicized transliteration “eon” which appears in the Concordant Version)."
Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Three


It is not sufficient to seek out non-contextual definitions from a Greek lexicon as if one thereby clinches the argument and proves that αἰώνιον means "long lasting" when in fact in the context within Matthew 25:31-46 αἰώνιον means eternal/everlasting.

I think i've posted plenty of evidence indicating αἰώνιον punishment in Matthew 25:46 does not refer to an endless punishment.

Mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mt.2:6b ...my people Israel.

If Christ meant "endless" punishment at Mt.25:46, why use the ambiguous aionios? Why not instead use the word aperantos ("endless"; 1 Timothy 1:4)? Or why not use the words "no end" as in Lk1:33b: "And of His kingdom there will be no end"? The answer seems obvious.

"Isn't it ironic that the passage most often used to support everlasting punishment is in fact one strongly opposing it when accurately understood?" (Tom Talbott, author of "The Inescapable Love of God").

Thomas Talbott - Wikipedia
Thomas Talbott- The Inescapable Love of God - 2nd Edition
 
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lesliedellow

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Eternal damnationism dominated during the darkness of the Dark Ages & Middle Ages of Inquisitions, Crusades & burning of "heretics" (anyone who dared oppose "the church"). That involved some 1200-1500 years of the 2000 years of church history...... Eternal damnationism is on its way out in this internet age.

And the genetic fallacy is on its way in, or so it would seem.
 
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Adstar

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Not possible. When God renews the earth He ends all pain, sorrow and death;
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The wicked are "burned up", they are "ashes", there is NOTHING LEFT;

Mal 4:1-3 For, behold, the day cometh, it burneth as a furnace; and all the proud, and all that work wickedness, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith Jehovah of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But unto you that fear my name shall the sun of righteousness arise with healing in its wings; and ye shall go forth, and gambol as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I make, saith Jehovah of hosts.


This is the same "day of Jehovah/God" Peter discusses;

2 Peter 3:7 but the heavens that now are, and the earth, by the same word have been stored up for fire, being reserved against the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:11-13 Seeing that these things are thus all to be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in (all) holy living and godliness, 12 looking for and earnestly desiring the coming of the day of God, by reason of which the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 But, according to His promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

You are quoting scriptures that only deal with the saved people not the ones thrown into the eternal lake of fire.. If you where honest and have read the scriptures in context you would not have used Rev 21: 4.. All Bible reading people who read the scriptures in context will have no trouble seeing that your Revealtion 21 verse is not talking about all mankind but only the saved.. The only people whom you could possibly decieve is those who do not bother reading the Bible..

Jesus Himself Said::: In Context

Matthew 25: KJV
41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: {42} For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: {43} I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. {44} Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? {45} Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. {46} And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
 
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SkyWriting

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The three main views are eternal conscious torment where the unrepentant are tormented by the fire for all eternity,

The tormenting fire is the one that burns in you based on things you have said to others.
The torment is the things you never said to others with your tongue while you had a
chance. In Hell these things never go away and last forever because you don't trust Christ.

Luke 16
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
 
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Der Alte

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There are reputable Early Church Fathers, early Church creeds, modern day scholars & translations, amongst many others, that disagree.
An empty assertion, without any supporting evidence!
What if the Protestant Reformers had followed what was considered the "reputable" opinions of "the church", instead of Scripture? Those "reputable" opinions of "the church" were often in ignorance, biased & motivated by wealth, position & other selfish interests. Who can say it's any different with the translators of those translations you venerate?
More irrelevant empty assertions without supporting evidence. This is a logical fallacy argumentum ad hominem, poisoning the well.
Eternal damnationism dominated during the darkness of the Dark Ages & Middle Ages of Inquisitions, Crusades & burning of "heretics" (anyone who dared oppose "the church"). That involved some 1200-1500 years of the 2000 years of church history. Outside of those 1200-1500 years, in times of greater enlightenment, universalism and annihilationism had increased popularity. It seems in recent decades this is especially so and will only increase. Eternal damnationism is on its way out in this internet age.
No, zero, none evidence.
 
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Dartman

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You are quoting scriptures that only deal with the saved people not the ones thrown into the eternal lake of fire..
Rev 21 is discussing a condition in the New Heaven and Earth.... it is not limited in ANY way. Since the wicked have been "burned up", "are no more", are "destroyed", ... and those judged righteous have all been made immortal ... there IS NO MORE DEATH... or pain ANYWHERE.
Adstar said:
Jesus Himself Said::: In Context

Matthew 25: KJV
41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: {42} For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: {43} I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. {44} Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? {45} Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. {46} And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
Yep ... the result of that fire is eternal ... the fire goes out when the wicked are "burned up", and "ashes"... no man will be able to quench it, and God won't. Once the world is cleansed, and the wicked are gone, it goes out... and God renews the earth, as His paradise, like Eden. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by fire, and the result of that fire is eternal...
Jude 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Mal 4:1-3 For, behold, the day cometh, it burneth as a furnace; and all the proud, and all that work wickedness, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith Jehovah of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But unto you that fear my name shall the sun of righteousness arise with healing in its wings; and ye shall go forth, and gambol as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I make, saith Jehovah of hosts.
 
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GingerBeer

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There are reputable Early Church Fathers, early Church creeds, modern day scholars & translations, amongst many others, that disagree.
Would you give specific examples of early church fathers and creeds that reject eternal punishment, please?
 
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The same thing happens in Daniel 12:2-3 with the Hebrew word OLAM
αἰώνιον is not a Hebrew word. The place to look for its definition is in a Greek lexicon and the place to observe how it is used is in the Greek New Testament.
 
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