spockrates
Wonderer
- Jul 29, 2011
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My apologies. I've been participating in four different discussion threads regarding the trinity for many days, now. It's getting difficult to remember what was said to whom. Is this closer to your definition of the Trinity?Straw man fallacy. I don't know why you keep insisting on forcing that meaning into what I've said.
I have NEVER said, "God is a (singular) person". Just as I said to you in the other thread, and as I'm repeating now, God is a "who". Being a "who" does NOT automatically make God "one person". "Who" can be used for a group, there is NOTHING in its definition that forces "who" to be singular. So, please, stop your erroneous attempt at forcing that meaning.
This is the first time I have heard anyone refer to God as being in a thing (or in three things) rather than being itself, a thing. ... or a who in three whos rather than itself, a who.
Don't use analogies, I learned in the first Trinity lesson. However, one might think of the Trinity as the number one, and the three persons as the cube roots of one. The cube roots all equal one, but they differ in time or phase so they differ from each other.
I got the idea form this Evangelical site:
It is important to note that when Trinitarians speak of one God they are referring to the nature or essence of God. Moreover, when they speak of persons they are referring to personal self-distinctions within the Godhead. Put another way, we believe in one What and three Who’s.
Many christian groups qnd individuals do not believe in the trinity
As listed
church of Christ...conservative
Non denominational/ charismatic...some not all
Messianic Jewish christian
Outside of western protestant and catholic
Ethiopian christian
Underground chinese christian...
And others simply refuse to address or use the word TRINITY
Because it is not in the Bible
Or because it wasnt a doctrine until around the 3rd century AD
Best to keep it simple and not try to read beyond what the Bible tells us....
There is only one God...who is greater than the Son
The shema
Deuteronomy 6:4
There is only one begotten Son of God
Mathew 17:5
They share the Spirit of God or the Holy Spirit also with all believers in the Son
John 3:5-8
So trinitarians say, "Only the Son of God has a body, for he is both God and man," and Mormons say, "God the Father and the Son of God have a physical body, but the Holy Ghost doesn't," and Oneness Pentecostals and other Modalists say, "God sometimes has a physical body and sometimes doesn't, depending on what mode he's in."I have heard of God having an essence, which is a thing that exists in a thing rather than being a thing itself. If, as the Bible says rather ad nauseam, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are God, then they are three persons with the same essence, like a throne, a stool, and a porch swing, which are all essentially chairs.
So does God have a body in which to have an essence, or is he like Louie Prima as he floats in the East River singing I ain't got no body.
So trinitarians say, "Only the Son of God has a body, for he is both God and man," and Mormons say, "God the Father and the Son of God have a physical body, but the Holy Ghost doesn't," and Oneness Pentecostals and other Modalists say, "God sometimes has a physical body and sometimes doesn't, depending on what mode he's in."
As for me, I simply don't know, for I see each of their interpretations of the Bible as equally plausible. Hence, I continue to wonder as I wander.
I suppose it could be said that way.Is this closer to your definition of the Trinity?
There is only one God who is three persons.
First off, "Yahweh" appears nowhere in the New Testament. "Yahweh" is a Hebrew word, the New Testament was written in Koine Greek. So your New Testament references have no relation to the specific word "Yahweh".The difference in God the Father
And Jesus the son of God
1. GOd the father name is Yahweh
he is the only 1 true God
Deuteronomy 6:4
Name given to Moses
Exodus 3:15
YAhweh is not a man
YAhweh cannot lie or sin
Numbers 23:19
Yahweh. Cannot be tempted
James 1:13
Yahweh knows all things
1 john 3:18
Merely distinguishes between Jesus and the Father, no conflict with the Trinity.2. IN contrast Jesus was the only begotten son of God
John 3:16
And became the son of Man
Matthew 16:15
But Jesus was also true man along with being true God. That is how Jesus could be tempted, He had a human nature. The Father can't be tempted as He has no human nature. Again, all this really shows is a distinction between the Son and the Father, no conflict with the Trinity.JEsus was tempted in every way....but did not sin
HEbrews 4:15
This is explained by my previous statement about Jesus' state of humiliation.JEsus does not know all things but only what is given to him by His Father
Matthew 24:36
SOn of man can do nothing of Himself but what the Father does......
JOhn 5:19
Again, simply distinguishes between the Father and the Son, no conflict with the Trinity.Sits at His Fathers right hand
Matthew 26:64
Acknowledged. I think perhaps the words spiritual body don't apply, for Paul uses the words to describe a physical but immortal body, here:Imaginary things like geometric figures and words have bodies of points or phonemes, even though they have no physical bodies. Spiritual things might have spiritual bodies, but maybe that would be necessary.
Thanks. I have to admit I've done a poor job at phrasing my questions. So I'm not getting the answer to the correct question. After sleeping on it, I believe I now know what to ask.I suppose it could be said that way.
It doesn't seem very much clearer to me. Is not God a living soul as well?... for what I'm really asking is this: "What is the essence in a human being?" The answer to that question would be, "A soul is the essence in a human being."
So let me rephrase my question. Instead of asking, "What is the one God in the three persons," I'll now ask, "What is the one essence in the three persons?"
Three 'persons' ultimately defines personal relationships. The divine relationship is based in love, and friendship, and serving the other.If my Christian grandchildren ask me about the Trinity, may I say: that the Trinity organizes the Bible's information about God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and how they relate to each other?
Three 'persons' ultimately defines personal relationships. The divine relationship is based in love, and friendship, and serving the other.
Trinity is the difference between love that flows inward towards self, and outward towards the other, the beloved, the difference between narcissism and egoism, and selflessness.
Jesus empties himself of everything in service to the Father; the Father in turn fills Jesus with his Spirit, and in turn Jesus shares that Spirit of Christ with the whole of the Church, those who love him.
If my Christian grandchildren ask me about the Trinity, may I say: that the Trinity organizes the Bible's information about God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and how they relate to each other?
Yesterday was Trinity Sunday. I was mainly just repeating what the priest in the Catholic parish I attend sermonized about.You have a non-traditional view. I think that most Christians would not recognize it as having anything about the Trinity.
It doesn't seem very much clearer to me. Is not God a living soul as well?
Hi, SolomonVII. Is Trinity Sunday an annual thing? I'm having difficulty understanding the words,Yesterday was Trinity Sunday. I was mainly just repeating what the priest in the Catholic parish I attend sermonized about.
Trinity: Loving relationship defines God's very being
Or, two men and a bird.. whatever works.For LaCugna, the Trinity names how God is God for us. It reminds us that while we experience relationships as something that we are always either moving into or withdrawing from, God does not enter into relationships. Indeed, God does not have relationships at all; God is perfect relationship. "God is essentially relational," she wrote.
Moreover, if God is perfect relationship, and we are created in the image of God, then the doctrine of the Trinity is concerned with our life as well. We are called by divine grace to enter into that mode of loving relationship that defines God's very being.
The first half of her magisterial work represented a rich exploration of the Christian tradition, East and West, as she demonstrated how over the centuries the Trinity receded from its early centrality to the theological margins of the Christian tradition. It was the early Christian experience of God's saving action through Christ and in the Spirit, not abstract reflection, that gave rise to Trinitarian doctrine, she insisted.
The Trinity evokes a God whose being is characterized by an eternal movement toward us, if you will, in redeeming love. Yet LaCugna also insisted that the Trinity names our graced movement toward God.