Why does God allow certain people to be born when God knows that individual may turn against him?

[IAMABELIEVER1979]

Oh I'm sorry I'm not being very clear. What I mean is why God has Mercy on some people and why God does not have mercy on some other people. Paul talks about in Romans (I think it's in Romans) how God has mercy on whom he wants, and he hardens whom he wants. That's what I mean. I just wondered why God has Mercy on some people and not have mercy on others.

But I also know it's not up to me to question God. I was just saying that I have questioned God and I know that I have no right to. I will provide the scripture to it when I can find it.

For God said to Moses, "I will show Mercy to anyone I choose and I will show compassion to anyone I choose." So receiving God's promises not up to us. We can't get it by choosing it or working hard for it. God will God will show Mercy to anyone he chooses. For the scriptures say that God told pharaoh, "I have appointed you for the very purpose of display my power in you, and so that my fame might spread throughout the Earth." So you see, God shows Mercy to some just because you want to, any juices to make some people refuse to listen. Well then, you might say, "why does God blame people for not listening? Have it they simply done what he made them do? No, don't say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to criticize God? Should the thing that was created to the one who made it, "why have you made me like this?" When a powder makes jars out of clay, doesn't he have right to use same lump of clay to make one jar for decoration and another to throw garbage into? God has every right to exercise his judgment and his power, but he also has the right to be very patient with those who are objects of his judgment and are fit only for Destruction.

Romans 9:15-22

This is what I meant about God showing Mercy to some and not others. And it is this reason that I am always going to question my salvation.

 

[JoeP222w]

I hope this isn't a stupid question but I ponder on this question. Why does God form someone, if he knows that person will reject Him and end up in hell or become a killer for example Andrei Chikatilo, who ended the lives of 50 something people. God knows us before we are brought to this earth, knows our innermost self, and knows what our choices will be or will make so why bother forming them in the womb? The bible says that the majority of the people in this world will be in hell, and only a few will find heaven. That's a sad truth, yet God created us knowing we have that potential of falling away from Him.

Jeremiah 1:4-5

God is holy, perfect, righteous and just. God uses means to display His holiness, righteousness and justice. So the Sovereign God, who is the Creator of all things, creates those whom He will carry out His justice and righteousness. God is also mercy, grace and love. He also creates those whom He will mercy, give grace and love to, as a means to display those respective attributes. He is God.

Romans 9:15-23 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." (16) So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. (17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." (18) So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. (19) You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" (20) But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" (21) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? (22) What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, (23) in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—

The bible says that the majority of the people in this world will be in hell, and only a few will find heaven.

The Bible says that those God will save are innumerable.

Revelation 7:9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

God never reveals to us who the elect are. That is why Jesus commands His disciples to proclaim the gospel to all nations.

Matthew 28:19-20 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (20) teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

 

[IAMABELIEVER1979]

God is holy, perfect, righteous and just. God uses means to display His holiness, righteousness and justice. So the Sovereign God, who is the Creator of all things, creates those whom He will carry out His justice and righteousness. God is also mercy, grace and love. He also creates those whom He will mercy, give grace and love to, as a means to display those respective attributes. He is God.

Romans 9:15-23 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." (16) So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. (17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." (18) So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. (19) You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" (20) But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" (21) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? (22) What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, (23) in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—



The Bible says that those God will save are innumerable.

Revelation 7:9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

God never reveals to us who the elect are. That is why Jesus commands His disciples to proclaim the gospel to all nations.

Matthew 28:19-20 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (20) teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

NM

 

[JoeP222w]

God doesn't know where we are going.

Very unbiblical principle you post here.

God is omniscient. He knows all things. Nothing is a surprise to Him. He is Sovereign.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

romans 9:19-21

a better question would be, since you know these things, why are you not yourself drawing near to the LORD for salvation and going out into the world and proclaiming the gospel that others would do the same?

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

Who knows or can know the depths of God but God.

The best answer ever!
I used to think this way but now I feel its best to focus on yourself.

Be grateful that God even gave you the knowledge of Himself and focus on Him

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

I agree with part of your post, but not the whole. I do not believe that a person once saved will ever really turn from God forever. A saved person will come back Home to God eventually.

Let us say the bulldog man was saved, but the horror he suffers causes him to temporarily doubt God's goodness. My argument is that this falling away is only temporary in nature.

I have no doubt that God can and does save evil people. Jeffrey Dahmer was said to have been saved in prison.

I agree that we all have it within us to be evil. I like how Agatha Christie put it in her novels, any one can become a murderer.

I do not know the case cited in the OP, so can not speak to that.

I agree, anyone can be a murderer...we all have a limit.

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

That's what I mean. I just wondered why God has Mercy on some people and not have mercy on others.

But I also know it's not up to me to question God. I was just saying that I have questioned God and I know that I have no right to. I will provide the scripture to it when I can find it.

I used to be like that ...always questioning God and wonder why he gave more mercy to other people but questioning will only breed resentment.

But my honest opinion is that...God knows our weakness, he knows what events and circumstances need to happen in our lives so that we will be shaped into the people he desires us to be. So he lets it happen. If we all had a cushy life our character wouldn't be able to develop.

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

I can't say why God ultimately does the things he does. We were all gifted with a thing called free will. Yes the old "free will" argument. We ALL have the potential to do evil. However, because we have free will we ALL have the potential to choose to do what is good and right. We already know how bad it is when someone uses their free will to choose to do evil and reject God. Think of how much more wonderful it is when people choose to do the opposite; what is good and right? Is it not better when someone chooses to do something nice for you out of their own free will than it is when someone is forced to be nice to you and you know it?

This answer is the winner

 

[IAMABELIEVER1979]

I used to be like that ...always questioning God and wonder why he gave more mercy to other people but questioning will only breed resentment.

But my honest opinion is that...God knows our weakness, he knows what events and circumstances need to happen in our lives so that we will be shaped into the people he desires us to be. So he lets it happen. If we all had a cushy life our character wouldn't be able to develop.

That is true. And I know that God works everything for our good.

 

[DarthNeo]

I hope this isn't a stupid question but I ponder on this question. Why does God form someone, if he knows that person will reject Him and end up in hell or become a killer for example Andrei Chikatilo, who ended the lives of 50 something people. God knows us before we are brought to this earth, knows our innermost self, and knows what our choices will be or will make so why bother forming them in the womb? The bible says that the majority of the people in this world will be in hell, and only a few will find heaven. That's a sad truth, yet God created us knowing we have that potential of falling away from Him.

Jeremiah 1:4-5

FREE WILL (That way, man is without excuse)...

 

[Robert Richborough]

I always see it like this, God is a good father, he wants us to have free will, and he has a solid principle that he will not override free will, this would override that.

 

[Neonap]

I often wonder this too and questioned God about this. However, it's like one poster said I have no right to question God. But sometimes it's hard not to question God.

I sometimes get very rebellious towards him. A lot of people here say that he's good and righteous and that is exactly what the Bible says. But I get very angry with him. He sends certain people to hell and everyone says it is their choice to go to hell. Well I'm not going to argue about that. But it doesn't always seem like it's a choice for somebody to go to hell.

I know I am human and I don't understand God. I get thoughts of rebellion all the time. But I am going to continue to call upon the name of the Lord Jesus and pray for his Mercy. Whether I was meant to die and go to hell or not, I don't know. I myself still struggle with sin. And I fear I'm one of those people who may end up in hell because I have very little victory over my sin. It is almost impossible for me to stop sinning. I will say okay I'm not going to send today, but then fall right flat on my face.

So I am praying I am not one of those people that God created so that he could destroy me.

But for some reason I'm not able to gain victory over my sin. And when I don't do my sin all I could think about is doing my sin. I close my eyes and say I'm not going to do this today I'm not going to do this today I am not going to do this today, and all I could think about is my desire to do what I don't want to do. And if I don't do it, I feel like I am going to die. I get images in my head all the time that is just sinful and wrong. And the more I try to stop those thoughts, the stronger the thoughts are.

So the point that I am making, I am just hoping I am not one of those people that God created to destroy.

I have gotten angry with him and told him he shouldn't have created me. Of course, this is me and mere human being questioning God. That is also very dangerous.

So what are my choices, all I can do is keep teen you to try to stop sinning. And pray for God's mercy. And call upon the name of his son Jesus. Whether it saves me or not I don't know.

PS I don't understand why God just doesn't take away my desire to sin.

Yeah I can relate to this wholeheartedly... Due to our fallen nature, it's only a natural response to feed our sins. That's why we need to trust in God to help us with our daily struggle with sins, and if you falter it's not the end of the world. You just gotta repent, pick up your two feet and keep going. Unlike my situation, you seem remorseful when you give in to temptation, I on the other hand have become comfortable in my sins. That fact alone is a scary place to be, so I'm in a pretty bad situation. Like I said, repent and don't lose hope...

 

[Neonap]

romans 9:19-21

a better question would be, since you know these things, why are you not yourself drawing near to the LORD for salvation and going out into the world and proclaiming the gospel that others would do the same?

Good point, to be honest with you... I've reached a point where I'm comfortable in my sins, I don't even put up a fight so I simply give into temptation with ease. My heart and mind are in a very dark place, and I don't know what to do. I have drawn closer to the devil, than God.. At this point I have come to the conclusion that I've reached the point of no return.. Evil has become one of my closest friends, even though I don't want to be near it.. I've become numb to disobeying God...

 

[sdowney717]

God is not the Father of all men, nor are all mankind His children.
We are His people if He has foreknown as such and so then He predestined us to be called, justified, glorified together with His Son Christ as a part of the family of God.
Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Hebrews 2
10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying:

“I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You.”

13 And again:

“I will put My trust in Him.”

And again:

“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”

 

[Theadorus]

I often wonder this too and questioned God about this. However, it's like one poster said I have no right to question God. But sometimes it's hard not to question God.

I sometimes get very rebellious towards him. A lot of people here say that he's good and righteous and that is exactly what the Bible says. But I get very angry with him. He sends certain people to hell and everyone says it is their choice to go to hell. Well I'm not going to argue about that. But it doesn't always seem like it's a choice for somebody to go to hell.

I know I am human and I don't understand God. I get thoughts of rebellion all the time. But I am going to continue to call upon the name of the Lord Jesus and pray for his Mercy. Whether I was meant to die and go to hell or not, I don't know. I myself still struggle with sin. And I fear I'm one of those people who may end up in hell because I have very little victory over my sin. It is almost impossible for me to stop sinning. I will say okay I'm not going to send today, but then fall right flat on my face.

So I am praying I am not one of those people that God created so that he could destroy me.

But for some reason I'm not able to gain victory over my sin. And when I don't do my sin all I could think about is doing my sin. I close my eyes and say I'm not going to do this today I'm not going to do this today I am not going to do this today, and all I could think about is my desire to do what I don't want to do. And if I don't do it, I feel like I am going to die. I get images in my head all the time that is just sinful and wrong. And the more I try to stop those thoughts, the stronger the thoughts are.

So the point that I am making, I am just hoping I am not one of those people that God created to destroy.

I have gotten angry with him and told him he shouldn't have created me. Of course, this is me and mere human being questioning God. That is also very dangerous.

So what are my choices, all I can do is keep teen you to try to stop sinning. And pray for God's mercy. And call upon the name of his son Jesus. Whether it saves me or not I don't know.

PS I don't understand why God just doesn't take away my desire to sin.

Hey, i understand your concern, but there is one very important thing you must remember, and that is christ has already forgiven you of every past, present, and even future sin you will ever commit, so you never have to worry about ending up in hell because the truth is the moment you believe on christ you are going to end up in heaven whether you everything perfect or now. Sin is no longer an issue with God because he took care of that problem on the cross. But it doesn't mean we wont struggle with it from time to time. The most important thing to remember is that your actions will never change the love that God has for you. You may feel unworthy of his love, but that's is because we have been taught by the church how worthless we are. Yes, the bible says all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, but right after that it tells us how we have been made justified by jesus. Or another way to put it, jesus' death completely wiped away our sin debt and it's just as though we never sinned at all.

 

[sdowney717]

The story of the wheat and the tares, Christ said He is the one who plants His good seed in God's field, the world, while Satan is the one who plants his bad seed. The tares are the sons of Satan, the wheat the sons of God. Christ's wheat does not turn into tares, and Satan's tares do not turn into God's wheat crop.
The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof, it does not belong to Satan or evil creatures, they will be cast out from His kingdom into the fire all things that offend God.

Matthew 13:24-45New King James Version (NKJV)
The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

The Parable of the Tares Explained
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

 

[bling]

God cannot create a being that has always existed (if it always existed it was not created). Christ has always existed, so Christ has always had Godly type Love and did not have to obtain (somehow) Godly type Love. Do you agree God could not “make” another Christ from the outset of the other Christ’s existence?


Godly type Love cannot be “created” in a person (being instinctive to that person). If God created a person with a “love”, that “love” would not be like God’s Love, because God’s Love is not instinctive or robotic, but it is the product of a choice. That “choice” cannot be reduced to: “the most logical alternative” and in many ways Godly type Love is not logical, it might be the “best” thing for the other totally undeserving person, but have no “reward”/ benefit for the Lover and could require great sacrifice for the Lover (that is not logical).



God has certainly predestined (foreordained) most things to happen:

Would it still be God predestinating man: if God predestined to give at least some individuals the ability to make a very limited autonomous free will choice to accept or reject His Love (pure charity)?

Could God have predestined Adam & Eve to have a free will choice?

God has determined most thigs that happen to happen:

Could God “determine” that some choices would be left to some individual’s to make?

God could have prefect foreknowledge of everything, but that foreknowledge could be like historic knowledge with God knowing all man’s free will choices which is in man’s future, with man’s future being God’s endless present time frame.

Could God have a Love and power great enough to limit His own sovereignty in order to allow humans to have the free will they need to become like God himself in that they could obtain Godly type Love. If God programs into man “love” is that an instinctive love (robotic type love) which is not Godly type Love? And If God forces His Love on man is that not a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun, again not a Godly type Love? Would a free will choice have to be involved in order for humans to have a Godly type Love?

For any being too thus obtain this Godly type Love, the being must be able to make at least one free will choice that must have likely alternatives. The choice is as easy as God can make it and still have it the individual’s choice. The individual chooses to accept or reject God’s Love (help/charity/mercy/grace/forgiveness) in the form of humbly accepting God’s forgiveness.

God (like the Father in the prodigal son story) will allow his children to spiral down (the result of their own choices) to the point they have the best opportunity to come to their senses (on their own) to either wimp out /give up (humble themselves to the point of being willing to accept pure undeserved charity, all for the selfish reason of wanting to live a life) or stubbornly take their deserved punishment like a man (starving to death in a pigsty) all to maintain some false pride.

That is the “one” real free will choice we need to be able to make: wimp out/ give up/ surrender to the enemy (God) to possible continue to live a little longer or be a “good” soldier and keep on fighting.

 

[1213]

I hope this isn't a stupid question but I ponder on this question. Why does God form someone, if he knows that person will reject Him and end up in hell or become a killer for example Andrei ...

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45

That is why I think the reason is love. God loves all and therefore has given this opportunity.

 

[stealthsaint]

I hope this isn't a stupid question but I ponder on this question. Why does God form someone, if he knows that person will reject Him and end up in hell or become a killer for example Andrei Chikatilo, who ended the lives of 50 something people. God knows us before we are brought to this earth, knows our innermost self, and knows what our choices will be or will make so why bother forming them in the womb? The bible says that the majority of the people in this world will be in hell, and only a few will find heaven. That's a sad truth, yet God created us knowing we have that potential of falling away from Him.

Jeremiah 1:4-5

Man is created for the Glory for His duplication on earth. God created life to duplicate itself (seed after it's own kind) God made man to be in image to grow into likeness, "SAME AS". Multiplication of "seed after it's own kind" was a " recreating force" moving forward to inhabit earth. Man was commanded to go forth and multiply and have dominion. That dominion was to rule over creation to maintain order and balance within the framework of free will, Gen1:24-28.
BUT. . . "Cursed is the ground because of you" Gen 3:17. Lucifer had authority over the heaven, (air, around the earth), who's influence is to kill,steal and destroy, (life, faith, relationship with creation) man's destiny to have dominion. Man listened to WOMAN, Now as BRIDE we are again in rebellion (under curse) if we do not listen to the GROOM. The roles are reversed, but obedience is to Father God who is communicating through Christ's mind in US, to US.
What God created is in a tailspin of destruction, which is no fault of Him but of man. Did God not expect this? His Original plan I concur is: God created to enjoy. He created man to inhabit Him to enjoy creation through the senses of man. He had to test freewill to be sure man would choose Him and not put self ahead of obedient relationship with Him. With creation in a mess, God had to invade man to be able to correct what freewill had caused. Until OUR Lord God almighty (Father, Son and Divine Spirit)SPIRIT came INTO MAN there can be no correction.
"Lord is Spirit and where His Spirit is there is freedom". COMING into man gave man the authority once again to "subdue" (the darkness that caused him to rebel).
Through Christ's Spirit in we have freewill choice again because we have an alternate voice of God's Spirit, to guide us out from under the "curse". Man can NOW freely choose life, by walking once again with God to carry the command picked up from the beginning: "Go forth, multiply, subdue and have dominion".
Where the first Adam failed the Last Adam has corrected by putting Himself (Spirit) in man to make choices. Old man thoughts or new creation God thoughts. It is a journey unto righteousness when we take all thoughts captive unto obedience in Christ) otherwise?
God did not desire to create puppets, or robots of obedience. God wanted to be one with a righteous man after His likeness and image. In the first Go round man was created in image to grow into likeness. With the second go round, JesUS' Spirit likeness, to obey, is in US to again grow likeness in the image. We are born in image with wrong DNA, likeness requires DNA of SPIRIT of OUR LORD to recreate, to be transformed by a "joining of soul".
Man created as a living soul, must now find life having dominion over death then go forth to subdue all death (curse) to restore. (all things are new old things have passed away is the prophecy for recreation. . Before Adam was life to subdue darkness that was all around the "Garden". Now we are "IF YOU WILL" individuals in a "GARDEN STATE" to again subdue and have dominion. We can only accomplish "restoration of all things" if we work TOGETHER JOINED IN SOUL.
Pp 2:1 1If there is therefore any encouragement in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship of spirit, if any tenderheartedness and compassions,
Pp 2:2 Make OUR joy full, that you think the same thing, having the same love, joined in soul, thinking the one thing,
Pp 2:3 Doing nothing by way of selfish ambition nor by way of vainglory, but in lowliness of mind considering one another more excellent than OURselves;
Pp 2:4 Not regarding each his own virtues, but each the virtues of others also.
<> <> <> Taking Christ as OUR Pattern<> <> <>
Pp 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus,
I use US, WE, and OUR as words of corporate expression, widening the narrowness of self: "I" and "me"