Is Jesus the only one who can pay for our sins?

[EmSw]

Said the guy who rejects God's Word.

But Peter had your number when he wrote this:
2 Peter 3:15-16
15 Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Those who reject Paul's writings are called ignorant and unstable people, and they distort Paul's letters to their own destruction.

So nothing you post is valuable, except as an example of what Peter described.

So much for your unfounded eternal security!

 

[FreeGrace2]

So much for your unfounded eternal security!

So much for a failed attempt to rightly divide the Word of Truth.

 

[EmSw]

So much for a failed attempt to rightly divide the Word of Truth.

You had better obey the Savior, or you will lose your salvation. When the rubber hits the road, you don't believe in eternal security. You have proven that; it's only lip service.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You had better obey the Savior

You had better BELIEVE the Savior.

or you will lose your salvation.

This is impossible for any reason that your mind can conceive of.

Because Jesus made clear who WILL NEVER PERISH. It is those He gives eternal life.
John 10:28

And He also made clear WHEN one receives eternal life; when they believe. John 5:24.

Now, the ONLY response from you is to show how my statements about these verses are incorrect. iow, the verses don't mean what I believe they mean.

When the rubber hits the road, you don't believe in eternal security. You have proven that; it's only lip service.

This is beyond absurd.

So, to be clear, your claim is that I really believe what you believe; that salvation can be lost, yet all my posts have strongly supported eternal security.

Your charge is totally unbalanced. But that is to be expected from one who rejects MOST of the New Testament. Because Paul's writings directly refute your views, you've dismissed him. Because Peter had your number from 2 Peter 3:14,15, you've dismissed him. Because Hebrews also refutes your blasphemous ideas about Christ's sacrifice, you've dismissed that book.

So, what do you have left in the NT? Very little. Which is pathetic.

 

[EmSw]

You had better BELIEVE the Savior..

Obedience arises from belief.

This is impossible for any reason that your mind can conceive of..

You said this, of which you accused me -

"Those who reject Paul's writings are called ignorant and unstable people, and they distort Paul's letters to their own destruction.

So nothing you post is valuable, except as an example of what Peter described."

Of course, it's impossible, unless FG2 decides who is destroyed. Paul is your savior, and you have proven it over and over. You can't do without Paul. You go crazy if Paul's writings are excluded from salvation.

Because Jesus made clear who WILL NEVER PERISH. It is those He gives eternal life.
John 10:28

And He also made clear WHEN one receives eternal life; when they believe. John 5:24.

Now, the ONLY response from you is to show how my statements about these verses are incorrect. iow, the verses don't mean what I believe they mean..

Matthew 19:17
...But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

This is beyond absurd.

So, to be clear, your claim is that I really believe what you believe; that salvation can be lost, yet all my posts have strongly supported eternal security.

Except the one about me.

Your charge is totally unbalanced. But that is to be expected from one who rejects MOST of the New Testament. Because Paul's writings directly refute your views, you've dismissed him. Because Peter had your number from 2 Peter 3:14,15, you've dismissed him. Because Hebrews also refutes your blasphemous ideas about Christ's sacrifice, you've dismissed that book.

So, what do you have left in the NT? Very little. Which is pathetic.

I have the Savior, FG2, and He is not pathetic.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I have the Savior, FG2

Not according to what you've rejected from Scripture. Which is most of the NT, all because it refutes your views.

and He is not pathetic.

I never said He was. It's your unbiblical views that are.

 

[EmSw]

Not according to what you've rejected from Scripture. Which is most of the NT, all because it refutes your views.

I never said He was. It's your unbiblical views that are.

Here's a Biblical view you just don't like -

Matthew 19:17
...But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

And you said I am under destruction, so your eternal security is a lie you propagate.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Here's a Biblical view you just don't like -

Your self righteous judgmental attitude violates forum rules.

And, btw, I like ALL the Bible, unlike yourself, who rejects those parts of Scriptuure that refutes your unbiblical views.

Matthew 19:17
...But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

I love this verse. And I understand what Jesus was saying, unlike yourself. He wasn't speaking of receiving eternal life, or He would have contradicted Himself. But that seems to be part of your unbiblical views.

This is what Jesus said about receiving eternal life:

15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. John 3

24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. John 5

40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. John 6

9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. John 10

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?” John 11

These word from Jesus refuted your failed understanding of Matt 19:17.

And you said I am under destruction, so your eternal security is a lie you propagate.

Whoever said you ever had eternal life? If you never believed in Christ for eternal life, but have only believed that you have to keep all the commandments, you never had eternal life.

But, to your point, why should anyone think that Peter was speaking of loss of salvation in 2 Pet 3:16?

The phrase "to their destruction" refers to physical destruction as a result of distorting Paul's writings.

From your own posts, you've been clear that eternal life is based on keeping the commandments, and you've rejected the verses about believing in Christ for eternal life, and you've rejected the very reason Jesus went to the Cross, even blaspheming the whole event.

On that basis, there is no way you've received eternal life.

 

[eldios]

Your self righteous judgmental attitude violates forum rules.

And, btw, I like ALL the Bible, unlike yourself, who rejects those parts of Scriptuure that refutes your unbiblical views.


I love this verse. And I understand what Jesus was saying, unlike yourself. He wasn't speaking of receiving eternal life, or He would have contradicted Himself. But that seems to be part of your unbiblical views.

This is what Jesus said about receiving eternal life:

15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. John 3

24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. John 5

40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. John 6

9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. John 10

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?” John 11

These word from Jesus refuted your failed understanding of Matt 19:17.


Whoever said you ever had eternal life? If you never believed in Christ for eternal life, but have only believed that you have to keep all the commandments, you never had eternal life.

But, to your point, why should anyone think that Peter was speaking of loss of salvation in 2 Pet 3:16?

The phrase "to their destruction" refers to physical destruction as a result of distorting Paul's writings.

From your own posts, you've been clear that eternal life is based on keeping the commandments, and you've rejected the verses about believing in Christ for eternal life, and you've rejected the very reason Jesus went to the Cross, even blaspheming the whole event.

On that basis, there is no way you've received eternal life.

All men created in the image of God will be saved whether they knew God or not during this temporary generation. All men will hear the voice of God after their wicked flesh born of this world of Satan has been destroyed and burned up in the fire of God.

John 5:
25: "Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26: For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself,
27: and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man.
28: Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice.

 

[sdowney717]

All men created in the image of God will be saved whether they knew God or not during this temporary generation. All men will hear the voice of God after their wicked flesh born of this world of Satan has been destroyed and burned up in the fire of God.

John 5:
25: "Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26: For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself,
27: and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man.
28: Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice.

v29, all are resurrected, but not all will have eternal life. This is also made clear in Rev 20

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Rev 20, the judgement is according to their works, and scripture has prior stated that no one will be justified by their works to God, so it appears none of these dead had faith in Christ, since it is by their works they will be judged, they are the unrighteous dead. Romans 4:5-7


11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[FreeGrace2]

All men created in the image of God will be saved whether they knew God or not during this temporary generation.

Oh, I see. A universalist who has rejected all the teaching about hell and the lake of fire for unbelievers. Interesting. But still unbiblical.

All men will hear the voice of God after their wicked flesh born of this world of Satan has been destroyed and burned up in the fire of God.

John 5:
25: "Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26: For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself,
27: and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man.
28: Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice.

Has Rom 20:11-15 been cut out from your Bible yet?

 

[eldios]

Oh, I see. A universalist who has rejected all the teaching about hell and the lake of fire for unbelievers. Interesting. But still unbiblical.

Genesis 1
26: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

I Timothy 4:10
10: For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Titus 2:11
11: For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men,

Psalms 22
27: All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the LORD; and all the families of the nations shall worship before him.

Has Rom 20:11-15 been cut out from your Bible yet?

I'm a servant of God who doesn't need to read the Bible to know that all men created in the image of God will remain as the Word of God when all the flesh of man are destroyed.

It's you who doesn't understand the difference between the CREATED SPIRIT, and the FORMED FLESH of man.

 

[eldios]

v29, all are resurrected, but not all will have eternal life. This is also made clear in Rev 20

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Rev 20, the judgement is according to their works, and scripture has prior stated that no one will be justified by their works to God, so it appears none of these dead had faith in Christ, since it is by their works they will be judged, they are the unrighteous dead. Romans 4:5-7


11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

The FLESH of man cannot have eternal life because it's only a temporary image that was formed from the information called Satan. The SPIRIT of man was created as the SPIRIT OF GOD. Man and God are ONE and will always be the WORD OF GOD.

New visible images including new bodies will be observed by all created men in the next generation called the new heaven and earth. All those images and thoughts will come from CHRIST and not Satan and the beast because Satan and the beast will be destroyed on the day of the Lord.

The "first death" is the spiritual death that all men experience as they are birthed into the world without knowing how they were created in the image of God. The "second death" is the death of all the flesh of man during this temporary generation.

In the next generation, man won't have any fears of any body dying because we will all understand that the visible images including our bodies are not our true created existence in the Word of God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm a servant of God who doesn't need to read the Bible to know that all men created in the image of God will remain as the Word of God when all the flesh of man are destroyed.

Rather, you've shown ignorance of the Bible.

It's you who doesn't understand the difference between the CREATED SPIRIT, and the FORMED FLESH of man.

Nope. BUt you've rejected all the verses about hell and the lake of fire.

 

[eldios]

Rather, you've shown ignorance of the Bible.

It's impossible for me, a servant of God, to be ignorant of the scriptures because I'm the only source on earth today where you can hear God speak directly to you.

Nope. BUt you've rejected all the verses about hell and the lake of fire.

There is no hell. That hell belief came from pagans who worshiped the beast where all religions, traditions and false teachings came from. The new testament contains pagan doctrines and traditions so that's why it's important to listen to the voice of God ( the gospel ) instead of reading the Bible and interpreting the scriptures for yourself. Only God understands the prophecies, not human beings who are going to be killed during this generation according to the plans of our Creator.

The lake of fire is the hot molten lava that's being stored inside the earth. On the day of the Lord, the earth is going to start shaking violently right before the hot lava starts bursting through the new cracks in the crust and from the mountain tops. Here's a few prophecies that related to the day of the Lord.

Isaiah 24
18: He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.
19: The earth is utterly broken, the earth is rent asunder, the earth is violently shaken.
20: The earth staggers like a drunken man, it sways like a hut; its transgression lies heavy upon it, and it falls, and will not rise again.

Ezekiel 38
19: For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, On that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20: the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground.

2 Peter 3
1 This is now the second letter that I have written to you, beloved, and in both of them I have aroused your sincere mind by way of reminder;
2 that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles.
3 First of all you must understand this, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own passions
4 and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation."
5 They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago, and an earth formed out of water and by means of water,
6 through which the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist have been stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.
11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire!
13 But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It's impossible for me, a servant of God, to be ignorant of the scriptures because I'm the only source on earth today where you can hear God speak directly to you.

Oh, that's rich! The "only source", huh? Gimme a break.

There is no hell. That hell belief came from pagans who worshiped the beast where all religions, traditions and false teachings came from.

Well, the word is found in both the OT and the NT. So, it's obvious that you're not only NOT the "only source", you're no source at all.

The rest of your post is so full of nonsense, that there is no reason to continue to engage you.

 

[EmSw]

All men created in the image of God will be saved whether they knew God or not during this temporary generation. All men will hear the voice of God after their wicked flesh born of this world of Satan has been destroyed and burned up in the fire of God.

John 5:
25: "Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26: For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself,
27: and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man.
28: Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice.

And now, the rest of the story -

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;
and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Those with 'wicked flesh' will not come forth unto the resurrection of life, but rather, resurrection of damnation.

And in case, FG2 is reading this, only those who HAVE BELIEVED and HAVE DONE GOOD, will come forth unto the resurrection of life.

 

[eldios]

And now, the rest of the story -

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;
and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Those with 'wicked flesh' will not come forth unto the resurrection of life, but rather, resurrection of damnation.

And in case, FG2 is reading this, only those who HAVE BELIEVED and HAVE DONE GOOD, will come forth unto the resurrection of life.

These passages are about the flesh of man that perishes, not the created man ( spirit ) in the image of God ( spirit ). Only the created man survives the death of the flesh and will get new bodies on the new earth in the next generation.

Ezekiel 37:

1: The hand of the LORD was upon me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley; it was full of bones.
2: And he led me round among them; and behold, there were very many upon the valley; and lo, they were very dry.
3: And he said to me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" And I answered, "O Lord GOD, thou knowest."
4: Again he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
5: Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live.
6: And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the LORD."
7: So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold, a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to its bone.
8: And as I looked, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them; but there was no breath in them.
9: Then he said to me, "Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord GOD: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live."
10: So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great host.
11: Then he said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, `Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are clean cut off.'
12: Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people; and I will bring you home into the land of Israel.
13: And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people.
14: And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land; then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken, and I have done it, says the LORD."

This is a symbolic prophecy about all created men getting new bodies to experience life with after the death of their flesh in the first generation which we have been experiencing this past thousands of years. This will all come to an end on the day of the Lord.

Unbelievers read these prophecies and take them literally but most of the bones that came from past people who lived the past many years are not longer in existence. They are nothing but dust of the earth which is only an illusion formed in our individual minds. We are not real people living on a real planet called earth. In fact, earth was created without form and void. Read the second sentence in Genesis 1 and you will find that the earth was not created in a visible form we can observe. It's void because it's only created as information in the form of waves. It doesn't exist at a material world but when we observe part of the earth we're standing on, it's only an illusion being formed in our mind which are all connected to the same exact source of life called the Tree of Life.

 

[eldios]

Oh, that's rich! The "only source", huh? Gimme a break.


Well, the word is found in both the OT and the NT. So, it's obvious that you're not only NOT the "only source", you're no source at all.

The rest of your post is so full of nonsense, that there is no reason to continue to engage you.

I am the only source on earth where you can learn how you're created. Not one person on earth knows what the beast is that you read about in the books of Daniel and Revelation. Without understanding what the beast is and why it was created, it's impossible to understand what our mind is.

 

[EmSw]

These passages are about the flesh of man that perishes, not the created man ( spirit ) in the image of God ( spirit ). Only the created man survives the death of the flesh and will get new bodies on the new earth in the next generation.

Ezekiel 37:

1: The hand of the LORD was upon me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley; it was full of bones.
2: And he led me round among them; and behold, there were very many upon the valley; and lo, they were very dry.
3: And he said to me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" And I answered, "O Lord GOD, thou knowest."
4: Again he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
5: Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live.
6: And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the LORD."
7: So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold, a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to its bone.
8: And as I looked, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them; but there was no breath in them.
9: Then he said to me, "Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord GOD: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live."
10: So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great host.
11: Then he said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, `Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are clean cut off.'
12: Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people; and I will bring you home into the land of Israel.
13: And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people.
14: And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land; then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken, and I have done it, says the LORD."

This is a symbolic prophecy about all created men getting new bodies to experience life with after the death of their flesh in the first generation which we have been experiencing this past thousands of years. This will all come to an end on the day of the Lord.

Unbelievers read these prophecies and take them literally but most of the bones that came from past people who lived the past many years are not longer in existence. They are nothing but dust of the earth which is only an illusion formed in our individual minds. We are not real people living on a real planet called earth. In fact, earth was created without form and void. Read the second sentence in Genesis 1 and you will find that the earth was not created in a visible form we can observe. It's void because it's only created as information in the form of waves. It doesn't exist at a material world but when we observe part of the earth we're standing on, it's only an illusion being formed in our mind which are all connected to the same exact source of life called the Tree of Life.

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Do you fear Him Who is able to destroy both the soul and body in hell?