What do Christians think of Atheists?

[Ana the Ist]

You aren't that much of a pen fan, are you? The last sentence acts as the leaven to the whole article.

I think you're taking the last sentence too literally. I don't think it necessarily means the writer believes in Satan...but even if he does, it doesn't support your claim that belief in Satan is in any way a good thing.

 

[just a believing guy]

I think you're taking the last sentence too literally. I don't think it necessarily means the writer believes in Satan...but even if he does, it doesn't support your claim that belief in Satan is in any way a good thing.

One should take a matter as a whole. And both the beginning of the article and the ending of it have been written theistic-wise: belief in Satan is good for you, but only if you are aware just how sly Hhe is.

 

[Soyeong]

No...rather, I'm suggesting that some beliefs are held simply because of the way they make people feel. For example...

You're certainly aware that belief in the afterlife is a very old belief with many forms. Yet being able to resuscitate someone or bring them back to life after death is a relatively new phenomenon of modern medicine. So even if you believe that NDEs are "evidence" of an afterlife...most people throughout history who have held that belief had no evidence at all. So why did they hold that belief? Simple...they find it more comforting than the belief that this life is all we get.





I can see why you think that.





I'm not saying people don't have reasons...but purely emotional reasons aren't evidence. Something isn't true simply because you want it to be.

While emotions can certainly influence our ability to interpret evidence, they are not sufficient in themselves to form a belief. Without something indicating to someone that a belief is true, the belief would never be formed in the first place, and whatever that something is, it is evidence by definition. So I agree that something isn't true simply because you want it to be, but no one believes something to be true simply because they want it to be. Wanting something to be true can again influence our ability to interpret evidence, but without anything indicating it to be true, it is insufficient in itself to form a belief.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If one is intelligent enough, one takes a matter as a whole. And both the beginning of the article and the ending of it have been written theistic-wise: belief in Satan is good for you, but only if you are aware just how sly Hhe is.

The entire article is about how belief in Satan...and concepts of "pure evil" in general...distort people's perceptions and cause them to act worse than those who don't believe in Satan or pure evil.

Nowhere does it claim that belief in Satan is "good for you"...at all.

This conversation is turning bizarre. I'm asking again, did you read the article? Because I did....

 

[just a believing guy]

The entire article is about how belief in Satan...and concepts of "pure evil" in general...distort people's perceptions and cause them to act worse than those who don't believe in Satan or pure evil.

Nowhere does it claim that belief in Satan is "good for you"...at all.

This conversation is turning bizarre. I'm asking again, did you read the article? Because I did....

Would you read the article between the lines?

 

[Strathos]

One should take a matter as a whole. And both the beginning of the article and the ending of it have been written theistic-wise: belief in Satan is good for you, but only if you are aware just how sly Hhe is.

Capitalizing 'he' when referring to Satan?

 

[just a believing guy]

Capitalizing 'he' when referring to Satan?

Not ''He'' but ''Hhe'', note the difference

 

[timewerx]

I would ask if you think that's an accurate way to understand reality.

If nobody believed anything in *contradiction* to the logic of everyone in their day, we wouldn't be having many great inventions and knowledge we take for granted today.

Many great inventions often started out with an idea or thought that is widely not regarded to be true or possible (in their time) and the ensuing work is an act faith against a significant chance of failure.

If our reality is to push the boundary of knowledge, technology, and the truth, then I believe taking a chance to believe in something that cannot be proven yet and use it to motivate oneself to make it real is an accurate way to understand reality. I'm an inventor myself in my free time and I think like that all the time

 

[Ana the Ist]

Would you read the article between the lines?

I'm being nice by not talking about what's between the lines...but since you asked...

"what many saw as a clear demonstration of unredeemable and deep-seated malice, these researchers interpreted as more, in the words of Hannah Arendt, banal."

Between the lines...they're saying that you don't need a supernatural explanation for evil.

"This grounding of evil in ordinary, as opposed to extraordinary, phenomena have led some to describe the notion of “pure evil” as a myth."

Again, this is saying that the notion of Satan creating evil is almost silly.

"A misguided understanding of human nature deriving both from specific socio-cultural traditions as well as a general tendency to understand others’ behavior as a product solely of their essence, their soul, as opposed to a more complicated combination of environmental and individual forces."

This is basically saying that if you think people do evil things because of Satan...you're wrong.

"How can we measure people’s belief in pure evil (BPE) and what consequences does such a belief have on our responses to wrong-doers."

So, the rest of the article goes on to describe how the belief in Satan and pure evil affects behavior and judgement...and surprise, none of it is good.

"BPE predicts such effects as: harsher punishments for crimes (e.g. murder, assault, theft), stronger reported support for the death penalty, and decreased support for criminal rehabilitation."

Basically, this is saying that the research shows that belief in pure evil (BPE) results in judgements that are less forgiving, understanding, and generally more harsh towards people. Not good things.

"Follow-up studies corroborate these findings, showing that BPE also predicts the degree to which participants perceive the world to be dangerous and vile, the perceived need for preemptive military aggression to solve conflicts, and reported support for torture."

So basically, if you believe in Satan and pure evil...you're probably a worse person than someone who doesn't, in many ways.

"The longer we cling to strong beliefs about the existence of pure evil, the more aggressive and antisocial we become. "

This is saying that, over time, the longer you believe in supernatural causes for human behavior, the more poorly you will likely treat people you see as "evil".

That's a quick breakdown of what the article is saying "between the lines"...I didn't really want to open up this whole can of worms...but you seem intent on claiming that it says something it doesn't say.

Why you keep claiming this, beyond your own pride, I have no idea. I read the article...I'm hoping that by now you've read the article...and really anyone else can read the article...so really, we can all see that it doesn't support in any way your claim that belief in Satan is somehow a good thing. All the research shows that it clearly isn't.

 

[just a believing guy]

I'm being nice by not talking about what's between the lines...but since you asked...

"what many saw as a clear demonstration of unredeemable and deep-seated malice, these researchers interpreted as more, in the words of Hannah Arendt, banal."

Between the lines...they're saying that you don't need a supernatural explanation for evil.

"This grounding of evil in ordinary, as opposed to extraordinary, phenomena have led some to describe the notion of “pure evil” as a myth."

Again, this is saying that the notion of Satan creating evil is almost silly.

"A misguided understanding of human nature deriving both from specific socio-cultural traditions as well as a general tendency to understand others’ behavior as a product solely of their essence, their soul, as opposed to a more complicated combination of environmental and individual forces."

This is basically saying that if you think people do evil things because of Satan...you're wrong.

"How can we measure people’s belief in pure evil (BPE) and what consequences does such a belief have on our responses to wrong-doers."

So, the rest of the article goes on to describe how the belief in Satan and pure evil affects behavior and judgement...and surprise, none of it is good.

"BPE predicts such effects as: harsher punishments for crimes (e.g. murder, assault, theft), stronger reported support for the death penalty, and decreased support for criminal rehabilitation."

Basically, this is saying that the research shows that belief in pure evil (BPE) results in judgements that are less forgiving, understanding, and generally more harsh towards people. Not good things.

"Follow-up studies corroborate these findings, showing that BPE also predicts the degree to which participants perceive the world to be dangerous and vile, the perceived need for preemptive military aggression to solve conflicts, and reported support for torture."

So basically, if you believe in Satan and pure evil...you're probably a worse person than someone who doesn't, in many ways.

"The longer we cling to strong beliefs about the existence of pure evil, the more aggressive and antisocial we become. "

This is saying that, over time, the longer you believe in supernatural causes for human behavior, the more poorly you will likely treat people you see as "evil".

That's a quick breakdown of what the article is saying "between the lines"...I didn't really want to open up this whole can of worms...but you seem intent on claiming that it says something it doesn't say.

Why you keep claiming this, beyond your own pride, I have no idea. I read the article...I'm hoping that by now you've read the article...and really anyone else can read the article...so really, we can all see that it doesn't support in any way your claim that belief in Satan is somehow a good thing. All the research shows that it clearly isn't.

I'm impressed by your ability of understanding, however you don't extrapolate. Extrapolating means reading betwen the lines. This is not a merely scientific article...it's a popular one too, meaning there is literary value in it. Extrapolate the literary meaning, and you'll get the meaning of the author which basically says: caution when thinking about Satan is valuable, and caution is good for you.

 

[Ana the Ist]

While emotions can certainly influence our ability to interpret evidence, they are not sufficient in themselves to form a belief.

Whoa...where are you getting this idea from? Why would you think that emotions themselves aren't enough to form a belief?

As in the example that I gave you on my previous post...people had zero evidence of an afterlife for most of human history. None. Yet, arguably, the overwhelming majority of people believed in an afterlife. It's not really difficult to understand the connection there...people saw people die, and they became sad because they lost someone. They didn't like the idea that the dead were gone forever, so they imagined a situation where they weren't...the "afterlife". That idea was obviously more comforting than the thought that once you're dead, that's it, so they believed what made them happier.

Emotions play a huge role in causing people to believe all kinds of things that they have zero evidence for. Psychologists confront these things all the time. Our minds aren't some cold purely logical devices which only operate on evidence. History is literally filled with these kinds of examples. Before science...explanations for everyday phenomena were simply made-up...without any supporting evidence whatsoever. People generally believed or disbelieved things based upon how those beliefs made them feel.

I honestly don't know where you're getting this idea that there's a rational, logical, or evidence based reason for every belief. We simply aren't rational, logical, evidence based thinkers...we're emotional thinkers...and we have to try very hard to accept conclusions that don't appeal to us emotionally.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm impressed by your ability of understanding, however you don't extrapolate. Extrapolating means reading betwen the lines. This is not a merely scientific article...it's a popular one too, meaning there is literary value in it. Extrapolate the literary meaning, and you'll get the meaning of the author which basically says: caution when thinking about Satan is valuable, and caution is good for you.

What part of this article makes you think that? Just copy and paste the words from the article...

 

[just a believing guy]

What part of this article makes you think that? Just copy and paste the words from the article...

That's my overall impression on the article, I've spotted some literary agents in it, and that did it.

 

[Larniavc]

Not sure what you're saying...lack of education or ignorance?

This confused me, too. Isn't lack of belief correlated with higher educational attainment?

 

[Ana the Ist]

That's my overall impression on the article, I've spotted some literary agents in it, and that did it.

So nowhere in the article does it actually say anything about the belief in Satan being a good thing.

Glad we cleared that up.

 

[Ana the Ist]

This confused me, too. Isn't lack of belief correlated with higher educational attainment?

It is...but I'm more curious about people's beliefs in this thread and challenging them with facts might discourage people from sharing.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Why don't atheists believe? There are many reasons such as being raised by atheist parents and indoctrinated since childhood. Extreme suffering of injustice such as severe physical handicap and concluding that a just God would not allow it. Observation of cruelty or chaos in nature. Consideration of belief in the supernatural in general as being a sure sign of lack of education or ignorance. Refusal to face academic criticism. Being raised by irrational religious fanatics who made childhood a miserable experience. etcetera.

Not a single one of these "reasons", applies to me.

Although I must say that I consider it kind of amusing/telling that most of your "reasons" seem to assume that "something horrible" must have happened to people in order for them to be atheist.

I personally believe that God doesn't follow inflexible rules but that he judges each atheist individually and takes all relevant factors into full consideration before rendering judgment. Such a flexible approach is illustrated by the words of Jesus on the crucifix.

Cool. Although I wonder, what the purpose of religion is, if that's the case.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If nobody believed anything in *contradiction* to the logic of everyone in their day, we wouldn't be having many great inventions and knowledge we take for granted today.

I'm sorry time...I should've been clearer. You said this...

"If someone actually believes very strongly about something, and apparently it works so well even if it's unseen, people will take notice, people will believe."

That's what I was asking about when I asked, "do you think that's an accurate way to understand reality?"

 

[just a believing guy]

So nowhere in the article does it actually say anything about the belief in Satan being a good thing.

Glad we cleared that up.

No, we didn't clear that up (but if you want to, we could do that); the article says, between the lines, that the (supposed or not) belief in Satan is good for our judging other things, our judging of other people. Again, read the last paragraph, especially the very last sentence.

 

[just a believing guy]

This confused me, too. Isn't lack of belief correlated with higher educational attainment?

No, it obviously isn't.