Mary

[Saint Beloved]

That thread did get a little excited, I guess.

There are people better qualified than I am to talk about this. I'm not sure about the accepted EO position, but RC teaching is that worship, latria in Latin, is due to God alone.

"Prayer" to the saints is better thought of as asking them to pray for you as you would ask a friend to do.

I quite like the practice.

This part confuses me if those who've died stay buried and asleep till the resurrection when they hear God's voice isn't it talking to the dead or evil spirits pretending to answer as loved ones or just talking to ourselves?

 

[archer75]

This part confuses me if those who've died stay buried and asleep till the resurrection when they hear God's voice isn't it talking to the dead or evil spirits pretending to answer as loved ones or just talking to ourselves?

If you hear anyone answer vocally when you pray (you = anyone, not you personally), definitely seek pastoral guidance and other counseling.

Most who venerate saints just venerate recognized saints, not just people they know who have died.

As to your other question about their being asleep, I'm not expert enough to answer it. Hope someone else will come along.

 

[Saint Beloved]

He also denied Christ. So was that to be imitated, too?

Every Roman Catholic Christian and Eastern Orthodox Christian and Oriental Orthodox Christian and many others understand the difference between worship and veneration or worship and "asking". It's explained on plenty of sites and plenty of threads. "Hail" is just a greeting.

These arguments always seem to involve a moving target. Why are we hailing her, that's worship! No, it just means "hi," and it's scriptural. Well, why are we worshipping her? We're not. It sounds like worship to me! There's a difference between worship and veneration. Sounds like a spin job.

I dunno. You don't have to venerate Mary. I just don't see what the scam is imagined to be.

Jesus never prays to Jesus, but Christians do that all the time.

Jesus prayed to His Father.
I have difficulty in seeing the difference between veneration and worship

 

[Coleton Bryce Ritmanich]

"Meat" in the KJV there is in the older English sense "food". As in "sweetmeats" - which aren't sugared flesh but just sweets.[/QUOTT

Thanks for the info! I am here to learn after all! I guess that kind of explains the honeycomb. Anyway, thanks again for the info, but I'm sure that everything else stands true.

 

[Saint Beloved]

It is not considered mandatory for Catholics to pray to Mary or any other saint. It is completely optional. Saints offer support through their prayers in the same way other Christians do when they pray for someone.

Asking a bodily living saint is different than asking a bodily dead saint. We can't know for certain that the bodily dead hear, speak or do anything for us.

 

[archer75]

Jesus prayed to His Father.
I have difficulty in seeing the difference between veneration and worship

He definitely does pray to his Father. That's what I meant -- he doesn't pray to himself, and yet, Christians don't see a problem with praying to him.

Anyway. When I said plenty of people understand this, I didn't mean anything personal. I mostly was addressing another poster. Sorry if my tone was off at all.

Worship is the adoration due to God. Veneration is the respect and reverence due to an exceptionally good person who is, of course, not God.

 

[Saint Beloved]

If you hear anyone answer vocally when you pray (you = anyone, not you personally), definitely seek pastoral guidance and other counseling.

Most who venerate saints just venerate recognized saints, not just people they know who have died.

As to your other question about their being asleep, I'm not expert enough to answer it. Hope someone else will come along.

I hear voices in my head that can be unpleasant enough if I start hearing them outside I will seek help for sure!

 

[Saint Beloved]

He definitely does pray to his Father. That's what I meant -- he doesn't pray to himself, and yet, Christians don't see a problem with praying to him.

Anyway. When I said plenty of people understand this, I didn't mean anything personal. I mostly was addressing another poster. Sorry if my tone was off at all.

Worship is the adoration due to God. Veneration is the respect and reverence due to an exceptionally good person who is, of course, not God.

Yeah but Jesus is our salvation so praying to him makes sense.

That's ok I took no offence xxx

 

[archer75]

Yeah but Jesus is our salvation so praying to him makes sense.

That's ok I took no offence xxx

This isn't a bad explanation: Saint Worship? | Catholic Answers

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

I dont get why Mary is prayed to. Dont get me wrong, im not here to bash Catholics, or to debate prayers. I just dont understand why we need Mary when we have the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, the Intercessor, the Teacher, the Lamp for our feet, and the Light of the world.

My people the Kazakhs for thousands of years have been worshipping the spirit of the deceased. Until today this is the strongest held belief among the people, even though Christianity came and went, then Islam came and has taken a strong hold. All ancient beliefs were related to worshipping the deceased. All indigenous peoples are doing it still.

Therefore, the worship of Mary and the saints.

 

[Saint Beloved]

My people the Kazakhs for thousands of years have been worshipping the spirit of the deceased. Until today this is the strongest held belief among the people, even though Christianity came and went, the Islam came and has taken a strong hold. All ancient beliefs were related to worshipping the deceased. Al indigenous peoples are doing it still.

Therefore, the worship of Mary and the saints.

But Jesus said let the dead bury their dead.

 

[W2L]

Well, that's the actual teaching. Or a paraphrase of it. I didn't just make it up. I answered your question about whether we "pray" to people on Earth - yes, we do, in that sense, and the saints are prayed to in the same way. Latria (worship) is due to God alone. Now it's a spin job?

Its the spin of your Churchs doctrine.

 

[W2L]

He also denied Christ. So was that to be imitated, too?

Spin

 

[archer75]

Its the spin of your Churchs doctrine.

Which is my Church?

 

[frettr00]

If only that were true. Do we pray to anyone here on earth? Do you pray to your fellow Catholics? Do you hail them, pray to them and call them queen of heaven? Nope.

I ask fellow Catholics to pray for me just like I ask saints to pray for me. When we say we pray to saints all we're saying is we're asking them to pray for us. Sure we also use words of honor for Mary just like the angel Gabriel did.

 

[W2L]

If you hear anyone answer vocally when you pray (you = anyone, not you personally), definitely seek pastoral guidance and other counseling.

Most who venerate saints just venerate recognized saints, not just people they know who have died.

As to your other question about their being asleep, I'm not expert enough to answer it. Hope someone else will come along.

Canonization and veneration of saints are false doctrines created by the catholic church. The apostle paul said to glory only in the Lord. Besides, we are all saints. And if praying to saints is no different than asking others for prayer, then you can try to pray to St W2L. You wont get an answer though, because like Mary, i cant hear your prayers, only God can.

 

[Alithis]

I dont get why Mary is prayed to. Dont get me wrong, im not here to bash Catholics, or to debate prayers. I just dont understand why we need Mary when we have the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, the Intercessor, the Teacher, the Lamp for our feet, and the Light of the world.

Usually the first reply of rcc adherents is to deny deny deny.
They say..we don't pray to meet we ask her to pray for us... Which is a load of guff. The word pray means to ask earnestly lol. So yes they Pray to her.

This is disobedience and Sin .
God will not hear us when we regard iniquity in our heart.
Jesus said NO ONE comes to the father but through me.
He then said he is the way
And
The door.
He then said ANY ONE who tries to come in another way is a robber and a thief.
When people try to approach ..come to ..communicate ..with God through a long dead person ,statue..,icon,angel, Mary..Any other way...
Jesus has already said . they are a robber and a thief.
A sincere person . comes to the Door.

 

[W2L]

I ask fellow Catholics to pray for me just like I ask saints to pray for me.

Really? Do you pray to fellow Catholics? Do you pray to your brothers and sisters? Do you pray to your Churches bishop? Nope. Why not?

 

[W2L]

Which is my Church?

The one you are defending.

 

[archer75]

Canonization and veneration of saints are false doctrines created by the catholic church. The apostle paul said to glory only in the Lord. Besides, we are all saints. And if praying to saints is no different than asking others for prayer, then you can try to pray to St W2L. You wont get an answer though, because like Mary, i cant hear your prayers, only God can.

If you mean the Roman Catholic Church, it's hard to see how they invented these things solo when the Chalcedonian and non-Chalcedonian Orthodox also venerate Mary.