Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit

[cgaviria]

This study goes over why it is necessary to stop sinning, which is what "repent" actually means, what the circumcision of the heart is, what the baptism of the holy spirit causes, and the purpose of the first coming of Jesus Christ to not only atone for sin, but to end it. The study can be found in English here Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God or in Spanish here Arrepentimiento y No Pecar Más, Perfección y Nacido del Espíritu | Sabiduria de Dios , let us begin a discussion on this matter here.

 

[PKFox]

I like the way this describes repentance. Personally, I've always understood it by the analogy of going the wrong way down a one-way street. Once you realize you're going the wrong way, you completely turn around where you're headed. That's how I consider repentance, completely turning your life around for God. We're still gonna make mistakes, and we may find ourselves going the wrong way down the street again, but all we can do is our best to live for Him. That's all he asks of us, our very best.

 

[friend of]

Hello. I'm relatively new / recently returned to the faith after having an experience of what I believe to have been spiritual baptism, or as you put it, a circumcision of the heart. I now live with an overwhelming desire to follow the commands of the law and walk as Jesus walked, to paraphrase Scripture.

As a recently new again Christian, I haven't been studying the theological arguments surrounding Christianity for longer than half-a year, but apparently what you are saying could be considered by other's of the faith to be at odds with the message that we are saved by grace through faith. Not making a judgement to you, I'm still trying to understand more about Christianity, but I'd figure I'd get to the heart of any disagreement that might be brought up.

I personally believe that when one is born again their soul is imbued with an incredibly strong desire to follow the 10 commandments of old, aka the law. After all, Jesus did say that the law was summarized in 2 great commandments Matthew 22:36-41. If we are not under law, but grace, and so the law is discardible, are we not to strive to follow these greatest commandments and walk as Jesus walked?

The teaching that states not to consider making those greatest commandments the centerpiece of our spiritual lives feels incorrect to my intuition.

But some Christians find this teaching to be misleading though I'm not entirely sure why. If someone took your life sentence for you at trial and in return he asked you to avoid a few things, out of respect for his sacrifice, I would do my very best to honor him by doing exactly as he asked, as I would be disgracing both myself and him for not carrying out his will for the rest of my life.

I sinned a big one recently. Got drunk which lead to smoking and other sins of the heart. I can feel the chastisement of separation from God for doing this and I feel physically and emotionally drained from it. It's idolatry and it's a sin and if God hates sin then I certainly do too and I need to avoid it at all costs.

 

[PKFox]

I personally believe that when one is born again their soul is imbued with an incredibly strong desire to follow the 10 commandments of old, aka the law. After all, Jesus did say that the law was summarized in 2 great commandments Matthew 22:36-41. If we are not under law, but grace, and so the law is discardible, are we not to strive to follow these greatest commandments and walk as Jesus walked?

The teaching that states not to consider making those greatest commandments the centerpiece of our spiritual lives feels incorrect to my intuition.

Brings this verse to mind. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Matthew 5:17

 

[cgaviria]

Hello. I'm relatively new / recently returned to the faith after having an experience of what I believe to have been spiritual baptism, or as you put it, a circumcision of the heart. I now live with an overwhelming desire to follow the commands of the law and walk as Jesus walked, to paraphrase Scripture.

As a recently new again Christian, I haven't been studying the theological arguments surrounding Christianity for longer than half-a year, but apparently what you are saying could be considered by other's of the faith to be at odds with the message that we are saved by grace through faith. Not making a judgement to you, I'm still trying to understand more about Christianity, but I'd figure I'd get to the heart of any disagreement that might be brought up.

I personally believe that when one is born again their soul is imbued with an incredibly strong desire to follow the 10 commandments of old, aka the law. After all, Jesus did say that the law was summarized in 2 great commandments Matthew 22:36-41. If we are not under law, but grace, and so the law is discardible, are we not to strive to follow these greatest commandments and walk as Jesus walked?

The teaching that states not to consider making those greatest commandments the centerpiece of our spiritual lives feels incorrect to my intuition.

But some Christians find this teaching to be misleading though I'm not entirely sure why. If someone took your life sentence for you at trial and in return he asked you to avoid a few things, out of respect for his sacrifice, I would do my very best to honor him by doing exactly as he asked, as I would be disgracing both myself and him for not carrying out his will for the rest of my life.

I sinned a big one recently. Got drunk which lead to smoking and other sins of the heart. I can feel the chastisement of separation from God for doing this and I feel physically and emotionally drained from it. It's idolatry and it's a sin and if God hates sin then I certainly do too and I need to avoid it at all costs.

Well, if you still committed a sin then it was not the baptism of the holy spirit. But, it could be said that God has drawn you closer to him, which is a good thing. But now you must take steps to come closer to him. Increase your knowledge and understanding of God by reading his word, for his word is what springs forth into aeonial life once it takes root in your heart. Over ten years ago I was on a similar journey, in one instant I came to understanding, and so powerful was my realization that I too thought it was the baptism of the holy spirit, but it was God simply drawing me closer to him. I have a blog with various studies that perhaps might impart some pearls of wisdom to you, Home | Wisdom of God . Let me know if there's anyone you want to discuss, either on here or in private conversation.

 

[friend of]

I appreciate your advice and thank you for welcoming me to your blog but as far as the never committing sin thing goes this is another thing that divides Christians into two camps. For one example, Ecclesiastes 7:20 disagrees with:

Well, if you still committed a sin then it was not the baptism of the holy spirit.

Quick question. Do you still sin?

Brings this verse to mind. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Matthew 5:17

Christ did fulfill the law indeed. But I don't think he was charging anyone else to fulfill the law as he did. He fulfilled the law once for all time.

 

[redleghunter]

Well, if you still committed a sin then it was not the baptism of the holy spirit. But, it could be said that God has drawn you closer to him, which is a good thing. But now you must take steps to come closer to him. Increase your knowledge and understanding of God by reading his word, for his word is what springs forth into aeonial life once it takes root in your heart. Over ten years ago I was on a similar journey, in one instant I came to understanding, and so powerful was my realization that I too thought it was the baptism of the holy spirit, but it was God simply drawing me closer to him. I have a blog with various studies that perhaps might impart some pearls of wisdom to you, Home | Wisdom of God . Let me know if there's anyone you want to discuss, either on here or in private conversation.

How many people do you personally know have come to this level of a sinless state?

 

[1W7]

Are you saying then that if a person professes to be a Christian/saved but sins, then that person is not a Christian/saved, and/or are you saying that if a Christian sins, then that person would no longer be a Christian?

 

[com7fy8]

Well, if you still committed a sin then it was not the baptism of the holy spirit.

Peter was baptized in the Holy Spirit; he even ministered the Holy Spirit, first, to Gentiles, but then he did what Paul says, in Galatians 2:11-13.

And Hebrews 12:4-11 says every child of God needs correction. I am sinning somehow if I need correction.

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain." (Philippians 2:14-16)

Arguing and complaining come from a sin problem in a person's character. Arguing and complaining are anti-love. But as God changes our nature, it becomes more and more natural and without struggling, to do what is loving and kind.

And we are "called in one body" (Colossians 3:15) to submit to however our Father rules us in His own peace in our hearts. So, if we do not obey this, this is sinning.

So, in any case, outward sins are not the only sins which we need to be concerned about.

 

[cgaviria]

Peter was baptized in the Holy Spirit; he even ministered the Holy Spirit, first, to Gentiles, but then he did what Paul says, in Galatians 2:11-13.

And Hebrews 12:4-11 says every child of God needs correction. I am sinning somehow if I need correction.

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain." (Philippians 2:14-16)

Arguing and complaining come from a sin problem in a person's character. Arguing and complaining are anti-love. But as God changes our nature, it becomes more and more natural and without struggling, to do what is loving and kind.

And we are "called in one body" (Colossians 3:15) to submit to however our Father rules us in His own peace in our hearts. So, if we do not obey this, this is sinning.

So, in any case, outward sins are not the only sins which we need to be concerned about.

Peter did not sin, for he was operating on lesser belief than Paul in relation to circumcision. Everyone is given a different measure of belief, that we may all submit one to the other, in the case of Peter then having to submit to Paul in this matter of circumcision. This is no different than what Paul said in reference to not judging someone who abstains from certain foods because of their lesser belief, or someone who observes a Sabbath out of lesser belief. Let them do so unto the Lord, and if they do not abstain, nor observe a Sabbath, then also let them do so unto the Lord. Let each be fully convinced, otherwise it is sin unto them.

 

[cgaviria]

I would not consider what is presented there as a "study". Presenting a position as a series of statements/claims/opinions and defending it with Scriptures is simply that.

As all of the Apostles writings in Scriptures to various groups of early Christians contain statements about sinning. The goal is obviously not sinning and we all fall short. So the same group of men encouraged same Christian groups to repent and knock it off. Little hard to isolate the Scriptures presented in your blog from the rest of the Apostles writings.

lol.

 

[1W7]

I was not suggesting that just because a person says he/she is a Christian means that the person is. To be clear, I am equating being a Christian to being saved. I was asking if a person sinned, are you saying that it would be confirmation that the person is not a saved?

 

[cgaviria]

I was not suggesting that just because a person says he/she is a Christian means that the person is. To be clear, I am equating being a Christian to being saved. I was asking if a person sinned, are you saying that it would be confirmation that the person is not a saved?

Correct, if a person still sins, then he is not yet "saved", meaning "delivered". Delivered from the sinful nature, which is the bondage all are sold into from conception.

 

[com7fy8]

Peter did not sin, for he was operating on lesser belief than Paul in relation to circumcision.

Peter was sinning because he was not doing what the Holy Spirit was filling him to do. He was sinning against how the Holy Spirit would fill and guide him. And Paul says he acted out of fear >

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

So, Peter was sinning against how God would have him love.

And Peter did know God had received Cornelius and the others, just as the Jews.

And Paul says it was "hypocrisy" and that "even" Barnabas went along with it. Hypocrisy is one of the sins which Jesus was more angry about, than a number of other sins. So, it is clear enough that Paul means they were wrong. Again > this is in Galatians 2:11-13.

So, in order to justify a false idea about sinless perfection, one has to deny that certain sins are sin.

Also, we have how John was "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day" (Revelation 1:10) and receiving the vision of Revelation, but he fell down to worship an angel. I will offer that John a major leader in Jesus Christ's church full well knew he was not supposed to worship angels. But even while he was so blessed, he still could sin, but he got closer correction since he was so close to our Father.

But, one time when I brought this up, a person simply denied that it was a sin to worship an angel . . . even though the angel clearly told John not to do that.

Revelation 19:9-10. Revelation 22:8-9.

I think it is clear enough that he did not do this only once. He was even told not to, but did it again. And the Holy Spirit has him tell us so we can learn from his error; because John is an example of honesty, instead of just denying it was wrong.

It is good to have leaders who are "examples" (1 Peter 5:3) by telling us however they are or can be wrong. Then we can learn how we need correction, and we can pray for them along with us all to get the correction we still need > James 5:16.

So, yes people will throw out what means getting real correction, of our nature . . . not only outwardly reforming ourselves and making a show.

I have been able to do things, as a gesture to my own self so I can suppose I am the way God wants. But self-produced change is not the same as how God's love effects our nature

 

[DarthNeo]

How many people do you personally know have come to this level of a sinless state?

ONE, Jesus Christ ONLY. Any other human who says he/she does not sin in lying...

 

[DarthNeo]

Anyone who professes sinless perfection as a human being is committing the sin of PRIDE...

 

[DrBubbaLove]

lol.

The Apostles did not appear to think Christians sinning was funny, nor did they treat Christians living in sin like they were not their brothers.

 

[RaymondG]

Correct, if a person still sins, then he is not yet "saved", meaning "delivered". Delivered from the sinful nature, which is the bondage all are sold into from conception.

Have you been born of the spirit? e.g. are you speaking to us from the state of sinlessness?

 

[Oldmantook]

Correct, if a person still sins, then he is not yet "saved", meaning "delivered". Delivered from the sinful nature, which is the bondage all are sold into from conception.

A genuinely saved person still sins. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 Jn 1:8). "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us" (1 Jn 1:10).

 

[Blade]

Hi cgaviria. I understand we all love to believe we truly see and are helping others that cant Now John as not talking to sinners (lost with out Christ) when by the sweet sweet Holy Spirit said "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.". Always read above and below. WHAT has become new? Not the flesh. Now in GODS eyes we are 100% sinless aka in right standing with GOD aka righteousness. Simply because we believe in Gods only Son.. Christ Yeshua/Jesus.

What do you think/believe SALVATION is based on? Its not the LAW... what PARTS of the LAW will you/us pick? Just the 10? No.. its 613.. you do ALL or you fail in ALL. Now THAT was in a time when the Holy Spirit was NOT on all. So Christ comes and GOD did what HE said as HE always does.. praise YOU Father. He wrote His laws in our hearts and He will wipe away there sins for ever.

Who so ever believes... can take this even farther.. deeper.. simply call in the name of the lord and YOU will be saved. What SAVES a man/woman is not you not me. Not what I believe nor what you believe. Its not what I say the word really says..not what you say the word really means. This Christ.. this man.. this friend.. this brother..this savior ... this GOD is REAL!

We cant just take only parts of the word.. we take ALL. As in Paul.. that spoke by the Holy Spirit. Where some Jews got saved aka Christ found them. Now they are 100% saved.. yet they would sin. And then would try to go offer up a sacrifice for that sin. So Paul was telling them.. you can offer up anything for a sin that Christ died for. Christ can not die again. There is no more sacrifice for sin. Do you see? They SINNED..yet Paul was telling them what? So we know GOD sees us SINLESS. No sin made it past the blood of a GOD. So.. this is why at other times we read...does this mean we can freely sin? God forbid! This is why we read if we are in the light of Christ we dont sin. And if you sin you are not of the Father...then we read ...lf we sin...who is WE? Yes.. believers.. if we sin we have and advocate with the Father.. if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us our sins and cleans us from all uprightness. <----this is NOT to sinners aka the lost

Not the Sweet sweet Holy Spirit was told to those that believe in Jesus.. that if you ask the Father for the Holy Spirit HE will give HIm to those that ask. This is what happen to those 120 that were all saved and all in one accord. And others were asked.. ask I was many years ago. And what they asked others..is what some one asked me. I did what Jesus said.. I asked. They just prayed.. said.. thats it you got it. A ok I felt nothing. Got up and just before I sat down.. It just came out. And YEARS later.. did I REREAD what happen to them ..100% is EXACTLY the same way it happen to me!

Jesus is REAL! And HE is truth not me not you. If we keep going to HIM telling HIM what HE really said what HE really meant..guess what? He will say nothing. Father in Jesus name change me 1st.. and if I have offended anyone forgive me..

Just make sure its written and if HE said it.. just believe it. And sin? Sorry but until we see Him as He is and we are changed like He is.. then and only then will this BODY be free from sin. For we are still in this world. We are FREE meaning. SIN no longer has a hold on us. The world HAS to obey.. they can not brake free. We do not have to sin.. but we do have sin. Repent is doing a 180 not 360.. its just turing over a new leaf. And again.. Its what He says.. And HE can only save..not us. If WE can be righteous or sinnless by our own means.. then Christ is not needed.