Why seek "God"?

[Dwells]

Love is an attachment, and is accompanied by much dukkha/suffering.

So many ways to experience love, why do you choose this one.

 

[ananda]

you are in great delusion

Blessings

How so?

 

[ananda]

So many ways to experience love, why do you choose this one.

I do not understand your statement, can you please rephrase?

 

[toLiJC]

Because you have absolutely no clue about my spiritual path, I'll tell you straight up that you are wrong.

i have seen enough

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

Look out to the cosmos...its full of things that are ever changing with new things created every second of every day.

you deceive yourself if you think the system Administrator of life wastes His time with vain creations i.e. with things that are not directly related to the overall salvation in Him

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

As mentioned earlier, there's also talk of knowing the Father "through" Christ. It's the knowing God "through" Christ aspect where the mystic experience comes in. Paul experienced the same on the road to Damascus. So even though the word "mysticism" is not mentioned, it's there none the less. Just like the word "trinity" is not mentioned in the Bible, it's still seen as being there.

if the faith is used as a means of overall salvation in the true One, then it is used properly, but if the faith is used for the purposes of spirituality, religiosity, mysticism, occultism, esoterism, idolatry, or any other suchlike thing, then it is definitely used unrighteously, which is why these words cannot be found anywhere in the biblical scriptures, because there is not spirituality, religiosity, etc. in the true One at all - because if there was, then the emphasis would be drastically shifted from overall salvation to some kind/type/sort/somewhat of non-salvation and destruction, but the system Administrator of life cannot afford to do such a thing - guess why?

Blessings

 

[Silmarien]

you deceive yourself if you think the system Administrator of life wastes His time with vain creations i.e. with things that are not directly related to the overall salvation in Him

He was sure wasting his time with Creation in Genesis 1.

Do you have a direct line to God? How do you know what is and isn't related to the work of salvation?

 

[toLiJC]

I'm not sure how any of those things are heresies when they're not even Christian in the first place. But calling mysticism dangerous is like calling prayer dangerous because it's central to other faith traditions as well. Christian mysticism exists too, especially in the Catholic and Orthodox traditions, and the vocabulary is completely different. And some of the people who have had the most impact within the history of Christianity have been mystics of some sense or another. (Think Saint Francis of Assisi.)

The word "mysticism," may not appear in the Bible, since the concept has shifted over the centuries, but there's a ton of mysticism and spirituality in certain parts of it. Paul and especially John both strike me as fairly mystical, and there's always Psalms.

and why must the spiritual servants of the system Administrator of life (such as Peter, John, Paul, etc.) be involved in mysticism when it is so evident from what the results of all mystical activity has been for centuries that there is no effective salvation for humankind through it compared to the perfect salvation for multitudes that had the unique chance to be visited by Jesus and His true disciples - tell me at least one meaningful reason?!, what if we rise high in sublimity but the world is full of zillions of wretched people for whom there is no one to save them now?!, and how can we live [with full contentment in our conscience(s)] in Paradise if (we know that) there are zillions of suffering people in the world below?!

1 Corinthians 10:24-33 (NASB) "Let no one seek his own good, but that of his neighbor... Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God; just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit but the profit of the many, so that they may be saved.",

1 Corinthians 12:7 (NASB) "to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.",

1 Timothy 6:3-7 (NASB) "If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. But godliness actually is a means of great gain when accompanied by contentment(i.e. by unfeigned contentment). For we have brought nothing into the world, so we cannot take anything out of it either."

has Jesus Christ the Lord Himself preferred living uninterruptedly in Paradise to helping/saving people in this world?!

Hebrews 7:24-26 (NIV) "Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens."

in fact, being exalted above the heavens means being concerned about others, not (just) enjoying paradisaical sublimity, so how have the so-called mystics had the heart of Christ when they have preferred enjoying paradisaical sublimity to working for overall salvation, which is why they have lived principally in secluded places far from civilization so that their paradisaical lives may not be interrupted...

Blessings

 

[dlamberth]

because if there was, then the emphasis would be drastically shifted from overall salvation to some kind/type/sort/somewhat of non-salvation and destruction, but the system Administrator of life cannot afford to do such a thing - guess why?

The shift for me is having God as my reality in life. God is spiritual, it takes a spiritual eye to know Him.

 

[Silmarien]

in fact, being exalted above the heavens means being concerned about others, not (just) enjoying paradisaical sublimity, so how have the so-called mystics had the heart of Christ when they have preferred enjoying paradisaical sublimity to working for overall salvation, which is why they have lived principally in secluded places far from civilization so that their paradisaical lives may not be uninterrupted...

I agree entirely, and so do the great mystics. They in fact generally decried that behavior. In the words of Teresa of Ávila, "God deliver us from people who are so spiritual that they want to turn everything into perfect contemplation." Private contemplation that doesn't push you out into the world is decidedly not the heights of mysticism.

I think your hatred of mysticism really is founded on a misperception of what it really is.

 

[toLiJC]

How so?

do you know how much more is the adherence to such a religion as buddhism binding in a way that it can only lead the follower/worshiper to decline in the course of the eternal circle?!, while love is at least not unfavorably binding of itself, moreover, God is love...

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

He was sure wasting his time with Creation in Genesis 1.

i didn't say He wasted His time creating the universal creation for six days, this world is created after all as a paradise, IOW, as a place for (paradisaical) living

Do you have a direct line to God? How do you know what is and isn't related to the work of salvation?

do you think that if God preferred putting His energies into creating vain cosmic phenomena to putting His energies into saving people, He would be righteous?!

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

The shift for me is having God as my reality in life. God is spiritual, it takes a spiritual eye to know Him.

don't be ridiculous, there have been millions of such worshipers, and the result of their spiritual activity was ultimately nothing but the fact that at best they rose high in sublimity through e.g. transcendental meditation, which was just some consumption for themselves, because ultimately they have not saved anybody in the true One with their spiritual activity...

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

I agree entirely, and so do the great mystics. They in fact generally decried that behavior. In the words of Teresa of Ávila, "God deliver us from people who are so spiritual that they want to turn everything into perfect contemplation." Private contemplation that doesn't push you out into the world is decidedly not the heights of mysticism.

I think your hatred of mysticism really is founded on a misperception of what it really is.

and did any of your mystics save any of his/her neighbors/cohabitants not less perfectly than Jesus and His true disciples presented in the Bible saved many 2 millennia ago?! - here is how (it seems as if) you kind of prefer following mysticism biasedly to following the true One

Blessings

 

[Silmarien]

do you think that if God preferred putting His energies into creating vain cosmic phenomena to putting His energies into saving people, He would be righteous?!

Why are the two mutually exclusive? I subscribe tentatively to the Eastern Orthodox view that God's energies are infused within Creation upholding everything, so if he has the will to make flowers come up every spring, why wouldn't he also be creating new stars? It's not a zero-sum game when dealing with eternity. God can be doing things that are not directly related to humanity while still being concerned with humanity.

and did any of your mystics save any of his/her neighbors/cohabitants not less perfectly than Jesus and His true disciples presented in the Bible saved many 2 millennia ago?! - here is how (it seems as if) you kind of prefer following mysticism biasedly to following the true One

I'm not sure what you're asking. I would certainly believe that Christian mystics throughout the ages, starting with John and Paul, have led people to a deeper understanding of Christ (assuming Christianity is true, of course). Mysticism isn't something you follow instead of following God, though. It's the pursuit of greater knowledge of and union with him.

 

[ananda]

do you know how much more is the adherence to such a religion as buddhism binding in a way that it can only lead the follower/worshiper to decline in the course of the eternal circle?!, while love is at least not unfavorably binding of itself, moreover, God is love...

Blessings

I do not know of this God, for myself. I do not know if it is love, for myself.

I see many posts from theists and syncretists often stating that "God is Love," or that love is the essence of all true religion, or that love is the common feature amongst all religions (not completely true when it comes to early Buddhism), or other similar statements along those lines.

What I do know for myself, through personal experience, is that love - though great in many ways - is not the highest state.

Aside from its positive qualities, love can be quite harmful, as it is a form of attachment which can lead to great sufferings; I needn't give examples of unrequited love, love for excitement, love for status, power, wealth, etc. all of which often lead to unskillful and harmful results. In early Buddhism, compassion is a quality considered greater than love, as compassion leads to less suffering than love; likewise, empathetic joy is greater than compassion, and equanimity is in turn greater than empathetic joy.

 

[toLiJC]

Why are the two mutually exclusive? I subscribe tentatively to the Eastern Orthodox view that God's energies are infused within Creation upholding everything, so if he has the will to make flowers come up every spring, why wouldn't he also be creating new stars? It's not a zero-sum game when dealing with eternity. God can be doing things that are not directly related to humanity while still being concerned with humanity.

if the system Administrator/Provider of life(God) has the duty to provide the souls with abundant and eternal life, then how can He (afford to) prefer putting His energies into creating vain cosmic phenomena to putting His energies into saving the souls from the embrace of the "darkness" and (into) providing them with abundant and eternal life, especially when the world is full of suffering/wretched souls?!, if for example you have children and God forbid they are surrounded by flames of fire, will you prefer assembling airplane/aircraft models at that moment (while their lives are so threatened) to saving your children from the fire before any of them dies or suffers in the burning flames?!, maybe you know that according to the world statistics every hour someone suffers from or untimely dies of some (kind of) scourge somewhere, and if in such circumstances God preferred creating cosmic phenomena to saving people's lives, then He would be unrighteous, given that every human being is His child, because He is the Father of all, namely the Heavenly One, for He is the Creator of all...

I'm not sure what you're asking. I would certainly believe that Christian mystics throughout the ages, starting with John and Paul, have led people to a deeper understanding of Christ (assuming Christianity is true, of course). Mysticism isn't something you follow instead of following God, though. It's the pursuit of greater knowledge of and union with him.

don't tell me that you don't see/understand the difference between having knowledge and saving your neighbors/cohabitants, what if we have full knowledge and union with so-called God but zillions of our neighbors/cohabitants suffer and die every hour because we don't save them?! - i didn't in vain tell you that the result of the spiritual/religious activity has not been observed widely to be in accordance with God's righteousness unto overall salvation in His Son such as the one demonstrated by Him and His true disciples 2 millenna ago

James 4:13-17 (NASB) "Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city(i.e. to such and such a religion), and spend a year there and engage in business and make a profit(i.e. and will serve as religious worshipers/spiritual servants there and will thus gain a heavenly reward).” Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away. Instead, you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that.” But as it is, you boast in your arrogance; all such boasting is evil. Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.",

1 Corinthians 13:2-3 (NASB) "If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned(i.e. if i give myself up to all kinds of religious sacrifices/rituals/traditions/practices), but do not have love, it profits me nothing."

Blessings

 

[dlamberth]

- tell me at least one meaningful reason?!,

A deeper communion with Christ.

 

[toLiJC]

I do not know of this God, for myself. I do not know if it is love, for myself.

I see many posts from theists and syncretists often stating that "God is Love," or that love is the essence of all true religion, or that love is the common feature amongst all religions (not completely true when it comes to early Buddhism), or other similar statements along those lines.

What I do know for myself, through personal experience, is that love - though great in many ways - is not the highest state.

Aside from its positive qualities, love can be quite harmful, as it is a form of attachment which can lead to great sufferings; I needn't give examples of unrequited love, love for excitement, love for status, power, wealth, etc. all of which often lead to unskillful and harmful results. In early Buddhism, compassion is a quality considered greater than love, as compassion leads to less suffering than love; likewise, empathetic joy is greater than compassion, and equanimity is in turn greater than empathetic joy.

i didn't talk about hypocritical love, but i talked about pure and perfect love for neighbor's salvation, how can any state different from the pure and perfect love for neighbor's salvation be higher or highest?!, what is more useful for the human and other (be)souled beings and souls, overall/all-embracing salvation or sublime non-saviors called e.g. buddhists?!

Blessings

 

[dlamberth]

What I do know for myself, through personal experience, is that love - though great in many ways - is not the highest state.

What I think your missing is that the path of Love can lead to those highest states. It's kind of a gateway. Have you ever read Rumi?

Aside from its positive qualities, love can be quite harmful, as it is a form of attachment which can lead to great sufferings; I needn't give examples of unrequited love, love for excitement, love for status, power, wealth, etc. all of which often lead to unskillful and harmful results. In early Buddhism, compassion is a quality considered greater than love, as compassion leads to less suffering than love; likewise, empathetic joy is greater than compassion, and equanimity is in turn greater than empathetic joy.

I sometimes wonder if you might be over attached to "non-attachment".

If there is attachment to Love, it's not Love! What it means is that your expecting something in return which is something other than Love.