I am an atheist. Please convince me that Christianity is the answer

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The Times

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Read every testimony of none believers and/or believers in other false religions of the world, you will discover a common denominator, that is, that they went through much tribulation in order for them to call out to the light Jesus Christ to save them.

I have included a clip that highlights two important facts about pain and suffering as being a necessary path and the other a correlation between the love of God and his Christ and the worldly love outside of God and his Christ. You will care to note that this touching story is about a Muslim boy growing up in Africa under the authority of his Muslim father. At the beginning we see a worldly love between the father and his son. As demonic lucid dreams started to torment the boy, a man in white claiming to be Jesus came to him on seven consequetive days. The man in white who said that he was Jesus, or Issa in Arabic opened up to the boy after he made the demons tormenting the boy to flee, by saying "my son do you need me to help you?" Shortly after the boys conversion he then saw the love of his Muslim father which he utmostly loved and respected, in a totally different light, this would turn out to be the true colours that the love of the world represents, that is a prideful and selfish love, whereby the father now wanted to kill his son without thinking twice.

Watch the touching story below and don't fall for stereo types that lead you astray, especially stereo types that claim that you can find love in this world, from those who are not Christ's sheep and those not washed by his blood.

Please watch and discern.....

 
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Godlovesmetwo

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My first instinct is to feel really sorry for you. Your accident. But I know disabled people don't want pity. I ask myself how would I cope after such an accident. I am not sure I could be as strong as you even I have the Lord by my side.
I just pray I can have half the courage you have in facing your daily trials.
God Bless you sir.
 
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The Times

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At first I didn't know what the pictures were about, because on my phone I could not make out the second picture was a person sitting in a wheel chair with both legs amputated.

Is that you in the picture?

If it is you, then I see the rays of sun light piercing through the clouds and you are travelling on a narrow path towards Jesus, that many and I mean many will never get to, let alone come to see the Lord.

Jesus is with you my friend and I look upon you more able than the abled disabled who have not been touched by God as you have been. I have had my fair share of traumas and I regard them as a blessing and I see that you have eternity to look forward to.

I send to you blessings from our God, our Lord, Our King, our High Priest, our saviour Jesus Christ.:prayer:
 
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CrystalDragon

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Not true friend. We are none the wiser, for who knows God's thoughts and God's ways. When the disciples....

asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?3Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. (John 9:2-3)

Stereo types are not our call to make, for it is written.....

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord. 9“As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, 11so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

The statement you made is ill informed and is in error. Only God knows the inner workings of man. We can only perceive what we are allowed to percieve. When we make a stereo type, do we look at all of humanity and throughout time, past, present and future?

No, because we can't. God however can and has been doing just that. So who are we to make stereo types.

Such stereo types include statements as follows.....



Don't be decieved brothers and sisters by these stereo types, for it is written that love is endowed to only the sheep of Jesus Christ, those faithful of His Church that the Father approves of.

Apostle James said.....

You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

The love that people recieve outside of the Church and bread of Christ, is the love from the world. This love according to apostolic writings is a false/fake/phony love, a love that has no basis in Jesus Christ, a love that is disloyal and unfaithful to Jesus Christ, a love that is far from the love of God, a love that is boastful and is at emnity to God where it is deemed a treasonous act. Apostle James wanted to convey that the love with this world is an act of treason, hence his rebuke....

You Adulterous generation!


So you're saying that everyone who loves must be Christian because love and goodness only come from Jesus?

The Christian Crusades and non-Christians being loving refute this.

Not everyone has lived in a place where they've heard of Christianity, and not everyone believes.

Saying "Oh, God's ways are higher than our ways" doesn't show any particular "good things come for Christians and bad things to everyone else" aspect, good and bad things happen to everyone.
 
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Miss Tardis Blue

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Imagine I am young and unhappy and looking for answers. I'm unemployed and cant find a girlfriend. I feel so depressed I have contemplated suicide. I am desperate. I want an answer asap, otherwise...??

"I can sympathize with you. Been there. Done that. I am not going to judge or criticize you because I have my own share of problems. But when I was at that same point in my own life, someone said the following to me-----------"When you feel you are alone. And everything has gone wrong around you. When you feel useless and sad, and that no one else can care about you--Jesus cares. He died for you. And when no situation or person can give you a sense of worth or importance, He can and does. You can read about Him in the New Testament. The things you face in life won't change, but the way you view and think about them can and will if you trust in Him."---------------------------"
 
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The Times

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So you're saying that everyone who loves must be Christian because love and goodness only come from Jesus?

No, that is not what I said. Love exists between two parties. For example the love between man and Jesus and man and the world. The true love of God is between man and Jesus, because that is what the Father approves of, since we are being adopted into his heavenly family, we must therefore come out of Babylon which is the symbol of this world.

21Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

The Father only approves of love that is between humanity and his only begotten Son, therefore any love that exists outside of this two party union is not regarded and neither counted as love by God the Father.

The world cannot accept the Hol Ghost, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

The love that is genuine and Godly approved also requires the third member of the trinity to be seeded in men's hearts as a gurarentee of the true love. Notice scripture clearly states that love that does not have the seal of God, is separate to the love of God, for God is Love (John 4:24). The world therefore cannot accept, cannot see and cannot know God and therefore cannot know the Love. The love between humanity and the world is the mark of the beast, the approval is of man and not of God, because it is given by the right hand from creature to creature and is approved of in their own minds. However the seal of God requires only to receive the Love of God in our foreheads by accepting Jesus as our lover and hence we are approved of the Love of God when we stay in Christ and obey his instructions.

The Christian Crusades and non-Christians being loving refute this.

This statement in no way provides contention to the answer above, because it is purely a conjecture with no basis of rational thought that confines a dialogue within the context of love between two parties, that is humanity and God and humanity and the world. This statement is a straw man indeed!

Not everyone has lived in a place where they've heard of Christianity, and not everyone believes.

Another straw man!

Saying "Oh, God's ways are higher than our ways" doesn't show any particular "good things come for Christians and bad things to everyone else" aspect, good and bad things happen to everyone.

It is not about the good or the bad things which come out of people, which makes love approved of by God or not. We all agree that none are good except God. We as prisoners of Christ on parole, are freed from the condemnation of the law that states we have sinned and are guilty as charged. We walk as free men, so long as we abide in Christ and follow his instructions and so that our union becomes a love relationship between us and Jesus and we therefore must reject love that is outside of this union, otherwise it is considered by God as unfaithfullness and treasonous.

On Not Loving the World

15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever. (1 John 2:25)

You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. (James 4:4)
 
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The Times

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Please, tell me where I am wrong in my comments on any of the verses I quoted.

Christianity is solely based on the belief of the one Holy God, which all scripture testified of and the God was revealed in the Son Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Jesus said ALL scripture testified of me, yet he didn't mention another god other than himself, which is self evident that the Old Testament and the new, testified of the God. Jesus said......

46For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Who did Moses write about?

Where ever God is revealed in the Old Testament, Jesus is revealed. This inference is self evident by the question that Moses asked of God.....

13Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”

14God said to Moses, “I am who I am.c This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’ ”

So we need to consider the Holy name of God as the I Am. Did Jesus claim to be the one and only name, the I Am?

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.

The name I Am is used many times by Jesus and in Revelation of John he is given the title.....

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

That being said, Jesus says all scripture testified of me and that Moses wrote about him. This brings us to Isaiah 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The New Testament ratifies this.....

17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us

The Word is the definite article, where the one God cannot be separated from the Word. The Word is God and God is the Word. A person can be given the Word of God as a messenger, but to be that Word as Jesus is clearly declared to be, identifies him as the One True God Yahweh.

To say that God is unable to save man or to see the works of salvation to its completion is blashemy.

To say that you or others can complete God's works, is to unwittingly label His incomplete, meaning unholy, which is again blashemy.

To place yourself in a position to complete an unfinished works of God making his Word, who is Jesus Christ on par to you or others, is to make deity of yourself in place of God. Such deification to place anything in place of the Word as if it is the Word is Antichristos.

To make Jesus anything less than the Word himself who is God is to dethrone Jesus from his rightful place as the Holy God of the Holy Bible.

It is not where you had gone wrong in your verse quoting, rather the comments you made concerning the identity of Jesus Christ and his Holy Works is denegrative and shows emnity towards God.

Your leaning very hard on spiritism to complete you and you should NOT associate any Biblical quotes with your belief system as it is hypocritical and outright undermining the gospel message. It would be like someone trying to counterfeit money and sell it illegally as legal tender. This would be criminal. You cannot do this to scripture.

The reason why I answered you is for the benefit of unsuspecting and significant others who may fall as prey to your counterfeit gospel message.
 
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CrystalDragon

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Christianity is solely based on the belief of the one Holy God, which all scripture testified of and the God was revealed in the Son Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Jesus said ALL scripture testified of me, yet he didn't mention another god other than himself, which is self evident that the Old Testament and the new testified of the God and when Jesus said......

46For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Who did Moses write about?

Where ever God is revealed in the Old Testament, Jesus is revealed. This inference is self evident by the question that Moses asked of God.....

13Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”

14God said to Moses, “I am who I am.c This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’ ”

So we need to consider the Holy nane of God as the I Am. Did Jesus claim to be the one and only name, the I Am?

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.

The name I Am is used many times by Jesus and in Revelation of John he is given the title.....

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

That being said, Jesus says all scripture testified of me and that Moses wrote about him. This brings us to Isaiah 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The New Testament ratifies this.....

17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us

The Word is the definite article, where the one God cannot be separated from the Word. The Word is God and God is the Word. A person can be given the Word of God as a messenger, but to be that Word as Jesus is clearly declared to be, identifies him as the One True God Yahweh.

To say that God is unable to save man or to see the works of salvation to its completion is blashemy.

To say that you or others can complete God's works, is to unwittingly label His incomplete, meaning unholy, which is again blashemy.

To place yourself in a position to complete an unfinished works of God making his Word, who is Jesus Christ on par to you or others, is to make deity of yourself in place of God. Such deification to place anything in place of the Word as if it is the Word is Antichristos.

To make Jesus anything less than the Word himself who is God is to dethrone Jesus from his rightful place as the Holy God of the Holy Bible.

It is not where you had gone wrong in your verse quoting, rather the comments you made concerning the identity of Jesus Christ and his Holy Works is denegrative and shows emnity towards God.

Your leaning very hard on spiritism to complete you and you should associate any Biblical quotes with your belief system as it is hypocritical and outright undermining the gospel message. It would be like someone trying to counterfeit money and sell it illegally as legal tender. This would be criminal. You cannot do this to scripture.

The reason why I answered you is fir ther benefit of unsuspecting and significant others who may fall as prey to your counterfeit gospel message.


About that "before Abraham was born, I am" verse. I've also seen that verse translated as "before Abraham was, I am". And the writing at the time had no punctuation. Isn't there a chance the sentence could have meant "Before Abraham was I AM", as in "Before Abraham was God" as in "Before Abraham existed, God existed"?
 
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The Times

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About that "before Abraham was born, I am" verse. I've also seen that verse translated as "before Abraham was, I am". And the writing at the time had no punctuation. Isn't there a chance the sentence could have meant "Before Abraham was I AM", as in "Before Abraham was God" as in "Before Abraham existed, God existed"?

No chance!

Because you cannot discount that Jesus said that all scripture testified of him and Moses wrote about him. This has a cross reference to the name that Moses was told to use to identify the one true God. This name would be used by Jesus throughout the new testament and therefore leaves no question that the Living Word who became flesh is inseparable from the being of God, that is the one substance who is God. Jesus declares himself with the title.....

13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

This one substance is the Word where his name is I Am. The first and the last of his Kind, that is substance is identifying him as the source of all life whereby beside him no other life giving source exists, for he is the first and the last of his kind, that is you will not find another.
 
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GBRK

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Imagine I am young and unhappy and looking for answers. I'm unemployed and cant find a girlfriend. I feel so depressed I have contemplated suicide. I am desperate. I want an answer asap, otherwise...??

First of all I hope I am not too late in getting back to you. I am a Christian and I'll be the first to tell you no-one, no human that is, is going to have the answers you seek. That is not to say that the answers are not there nor that you cannot find them. What you seek can only come from one source and that is the Creator Himself, God! As an Atheist I can fully understand how religion can seem as some pie in the sky delusion that people are running around with. I will also tell you that establishing a relationship with God or "finding God" will not solve your earthly/fleshly/physical problems. You will find some very miserable Christians as well who could honestly have said or say the exact same things you have so please don't think of a "Spiritual decision" as some avenue that will instantly cure everything wrong in life, it won't!

I do honestly though believe that ONCE you answer that main question of IF there is a God and just WHO is God and reconcile your Spiritual relationship with God then all your other problems will seem so insignificant that you will start to attack them and you will find your life will change in many positive ways, that is my own opinion though. First of all everything requires faith, a measure of faith and all parts of our life are embodied around faith. Faith that our home won't burn up or fall in upon us, faith that the bridge we drive over will support us and not fall in, minor faith issues but one we never think of. That said I want you to "CONSIDER" what I am suggesting for it is my way of attempting to lead you to a place where I believe God wants you to be and where I believe God WILL speak to you and change your life. Because you have stated you are atheist I will not shove a ton of scriptures, from the Bible, into your face or screen but later if you want I can provide scriptures for everything I suggest/tell to you.

To start though I am going to suggest to you to put away your skepticism for a while and just consider the POSSIBILITY of what I am suggesting. WE are humans and being human, while we have a vast superiority over animals and insects, our mental capacity and capability is very limited when it comes to some things. There exist some things that we just cannot comprehend. Take the concept of ETERNITY (past or future). Can you, I, or anyone really comprehend eternity? I suggest not because it's beyond our real comprehension so we ACCEPT it on faith! I'm suggesting to you that a lot that has to do with "God" is beyond human comprehension and understanding because God is to infinity above us in every way and because of this one fallacy that even many Christians fall into is that we attempt to "humanize God" and by that I mean we apply human traits or require God to comply to various human traits in order for us to believe or accept God.

I want to suggest, to you, that there are two realities and that is one which is physical, fleshly, it can be defined, seen, felt, analyzed, scrutinized and defined by science but apart from the Physical there is another reality, one that is far more vast, powerful, and unable to explain or comprehend and that is what we call the Spiritual and it is the Spiritual realm where God dwells and inhabits. Like two realities or realms mankind (being human) consist of at least two parts. One part is the flesh, the physical entity that was created by the sexual union of your parents but also being human means you are made/created in God's image in that you, I, we, have an internal spirit/soul that is not fleshly or physical. It is something you cannot see, cannot X-ray, can't hear. Our spirit/soul has no color, no shape, no gender but never the less exist within our physical body and I'm suggesting was put there, created, by God. I (personally) look at God not as some white haired man setting on a cloud but rather as an indescribable , indescribable, power/presence. I believe that every human has, within them, a void, an emptiness which comes from an inner desire to know the creator, to know God but because of our own pride or fear we often reject that inner desire to know God and also I believe God, as our creator wants to have our worship and appreciation and faith.

That said I believe that God is there waiting for us to reach out to Him or to be responsive for Him to approach us and to make Himself known to us. I wish there was a way to talk with you, in voice, in person as it makes it easier and faster but I only have what we have here so I'll use it as I can. I believe God's Holy Spirit will though reach out to you and that from within your own body will FEEL, will experience, will SENSE God's desire to communicate with you. That is God's Holy Spirit that does this and how God interacts with Mankind/Humans.

So who/what is Jesus Christ? First of all Christians are unique in that you will hear a term called the trinity or ONE God in three persons. God the Father, God the Holy Spirit and God the Son (Christ). This is true but it, at this point, is not important for a person's salvation. Many Atheist or people that don't believe in God would say why would God exist an not make Himself known,? Why not just come down appear in front of everyone and work miracles and prove Himself then everyone would believe. First of all that isn't faith and belief to respond to such. God WANTS our belief by FAITH, which is believing without having proof but only through faith when everything else may be telling us it's crazy to do so. Think about it though CHRIST (God in human flesh) was God, from the Spiritual realm, coming to earth, the physical realm, and saying look here I am, this is me. That, with Christ, is what happened but people still didn't accept him or believe. In reality though Christ did not come, in human flesh, to the physical world so people would believe, if that was the case then He would come times continuously and at many different times so people would believe but Christ came to earth, in human form, just to be a "perfect" blood sacrifice for all those who would accept that sacrifice for their sins and sinfulness (sin nature).

God, long ago, determined a judgment upon sin, all sin, and with that a penalty for sinning against him. Mankind/humans are born into sin and we sin account we are not perfect. God though is and was JUST and FAIR so knowing that there was a verdict upon sin and that man would sin so God predetermined an escape or way that mankind could escape the verdict/judgment upon sin and man's sin nature and that was that man should give/present a "blood sacrifice" to atone for their sins. CHRIST was God coming to earth, the physical, in flesh to be a PERFECT (as He/God was only the only PERFECT one) blood sacrifice for all of mankind. SALVATION and establishing a relationship with God is simply mankind, you, I, anyone realizing that we are not perfect, in and of ourselves, and that we need help, that we cannot achieve pleasing God on our own and thus mentally and heartfully, sincerely, accepting the blood sacrifice that Christ gave those almost two thousand years ago. It's not something you sign in ink or pay for or buy but simply that you accept (personally (between God & YOU)) mentally giving over yourself by faith unto God. That is what God has requested that we/mankind does with respect to Christ, just accept the gift of Salvation that He (God) has offered. God doesn't even say you have to stop sinning or doing what you are doing in order to receive His salvation but simply be remorseful/sorry for your sins and sin nature and willing, wanting, to accept the free gift of Salvation that God offers through and in Christ via His Blood Sacrifice. When you or when a person does this their Spiritual eyes will be Opened and they become aware of God personally as God's Holy Spirit becomes one with them, and God introduces Himself unto them. It changes lives, instantly changes lives, outlooks, the type of person a person is because they no longer live for themselves but live for God and to please God as God becomes ALIVE to them.

Yes it can be different from one person to the next but yet the same in that it is the most profound thing in a human's life to realize that there is so much more than they thought and that it was always right there before them. You mentioned many problems in your post, unemployed, wanting a girlfriend, being depressed etc .. these are physical things of the flesh yet within your body your mind you long for answers to questions you don't even know existed. You recognize a void yet cannot explain it. I'm telling you that I believe God's Spirit is calling out to you and you, in response inquired on here hoping that someone would tell you why you feel the way you do. I believe you feel that way because you want to know God, you want to have proof but more than that you want relief from some discomfort you are experiencing. I believe you need to take care of the Spiritual needs you have first. THEN you can start on the physical needs but from a new perspective. You then will have God's Holy Spirit to enrich your life. Consider the following scripture, the only one I will give. It speaks about the FRUITs (evidences or benefits) of the Holy Spirit and of the Flesh. Meaning what the Flesh gives you, trying to do it yourself verses relying upon God and what having God's Holy Spirit within your own life gives you.

Galatians 5:17-26 (NIV)
17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions

21
and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.


This is simply why Christ came, what GOD gave unto us:

John 3:14-18 (NIV)
14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. (Christ had to die on the Cross)
16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.


God didn't come to JUDGE the world, didn't come to judge you of sin but rather came only to be our sacrifice and His shed blood, on/from the Cross is what saves us and is what God requires of us .. to Believe in FAITH.

I hope this helps/helped.
 
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Godlovesmetwo

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I believe you need to take care of the Spiritual needs you have first. THEN you can start on the physical needs but from a new perspective
Your post is great and very thoughtful. I like this one for example.
 
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If you want to fully appreciate what Jesus did for you, you first need to understand he was not God, but a man with like passions as every other man.

Your perversion of the truth, truly denigrates the gift of God and the gift from God, by denying that God did it for us.

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

The Holy Ghost is the One True God and he is declared by the Apostles as being the one who had purchased us with his own blood. You state that God wasn't the one to bleed on the cross, that he sent one of his creatures to do the bleeding. Your statement is preposterous.

If God told you to give up your life on the cross in the most horrible death imaginable, but promised you he'd raise you up again, would you have believed and obeyed him? It's a good thing your salvation wasn't dependent on me doing that, because you'd still be dead in trespasses and sins! If Jesus was God it would have been no big deal.

Yes, I do believe Jesus is God and he alone could of saved us, as only God is sinless. To you God being our saviour is no big deal! What a condescending attitude you have towards the Holy God.

we've had 2,000 years of brainwashing on the trinity, so I guess it's inevitable that most Christians believe it.

It is not brainwashing, but has proven the test of time. The Holy God wouldn't have allowed brainwashing of his Church for 2000 years, because Jesus declared that the gates of hell will not prevail against his Church. So in essence those like yourself who think to change laws and times of God want to brainwash people to your new found religion in spiritism, that is being rehashed from the cults of eastern religions and nostism.

Nonetheless, you can not truly appreciate the love that the man Christ Jesus had for all humankind if you think he is God.

This is how you want to brainwash people by this rhetoric and by the subversion of the truth. Philip wanted to see the Father, yet Jesus referred Philip back to himself, revealing that Philip needed to go through Jesus, the Word/God made flesh in order to understand that the Son is every part of God, being one substance with him (Nicene Creed).

Never will you find "God the son."

Yes you will, God the Son is the connection and way to God. You cannot open a doorway to God's house unless you go through God. Mere creatures cannot be paths to God, they become no less than spiritist deities by the dozens who aspire to become mini moos. Jesus in this respect is the Word, the literal manifestation of the one God making the door of salvation available through him. The Word is God and God is the Word, the Word cannot be separated from God's being and therefore remains of the one substance.

You'll never know who he is and what he really did as long as you think he is God.

Oh really! Since when has mere creatures been the inspiration behind God's salvation plan. In the Garden God declares that he will crush the head of the serpent. Who after all would take credit for crushing the head of the serpent, the creature or the Creator?

Think deeply now. It is the Garden and the fall has occurred and man is being kicked out. God restores the Garden through himself. Go back and read the old testament and understand the promises made to Adam, Abraham and David and discern that no creature would be qualified to take that role, except the literal Word manifest in flesh. The literal Word is God.

But somehow we need to finish his work for him? He didn't do it good enough? I couldn't find anywhere that it says pain and suffering burns away our pride. Do you have a verse on that?

Jesus said you will drink from his cup and you will have great tribulation and since he had plucked you out of this world, you shall be hated by ALL the people's of the nations of the world for my sake. You shall be beaten imprisoned and killed, fear not what they can do to your body.

Every sermon that Jesus gave is of us picking up our crosses and following him to calvary, where we, through pain and suffering endure onto even death, having found finished our race and kept the faith.

The Holy Ghost purges meaning burns our carnal self and moulds us into the personage of Jesus Christ and according to his beatidudes.
 
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