The Seventh Day is the SABBATH of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10

[bugkiller]

Brother Bob,

The battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant began in Acts chapter 15 and continues to this day.

The books of Galatians and Hebrews were specifically written to address the tremendous error of attempting to merge the two covenants.

The strategy today seems to be to claim that the New Covenant is really just a "New Administration" of the Old Covenant.

Those who claim they are keeping the Sabbath know in their hearts that they really are not.

We are fighting the same battle that Paul fought.
It is a battle for the Gospel itself.
Some are attempting to save themselves through their own works.

All we can do is use God's Word to show the truth.
There are others watching who really want the truth.
Some of the others will never admit that they have been wrong. Pride is a powerful force.

Paul also became very frustrated at times, as revealed by the following words...


Gal 5:12 I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!


Php 3:2　 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation!　
Php 3:3　 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,　

.

I got involved here because my former SDA neighbor suggested I check things out on the net. He tried for ten years to convert me. He even cussed me because he could not prove me wrong. His 'tude was he had to much invested in the church to give it up. I most likely still have one oft heir award bibles for studying with them. I was given a nice set of dear ole Ellen's works to boot. Their major problem is I read The Book (the whole Bible).

God has been very good to me. The Holy Spirit is the best teacher, bar none.

bugkiller

 

[Bob S]

Thanks Brothers, Your words of encouragement means a great amount to me and those lurking these threads. Keep up the good fight.

 

[FredVB]

That is not what the text says.

Exo 34:28　 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.　
(The Sinai Covenant is the ten commandments, written on the tablets of stone. The 600 plus other parts were to show how the children of Israel how they were to keep the 10 commandments.)

Deu 5:1　 And Moses called all Israel, and said to them: "Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your hearing today, that you may learn them and be careful to observe them.　
Deu 5:2　 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.　
Deu 5:3　 The LORD did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.
(The Sinai Covenant was not given earlier.)

2Co 3:6　 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.　
2Co 3:7　 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,　
2Co 3:8　 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?　

Above Paul contrasts the New Covenant made at Calvary with the ministry of death written on stones, which is the 10 commandments.

We are not come to Mount Sinai, but to the New Covenant of Mount Zion.

Heb 12:18　 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest,　

Heb 12:19　 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.　

Heb 12:20　 (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW."　

Heb 12:21　 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.")　


Heb 12:22　 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,　

Heb 12:23　 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,　

Heb 12:24　 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

The Old Covenant given at Mount Sinai is finished, having been made "obsolete" by the New Covenant, written in Blood on a wooden Cross.(Hebrews 8:13)

There is not even attention really given to the scriptures with which I am answered. Those from Hebrews confirm that the new covenant has the superior offering, with the blood of Christ with his death with consenting according to Yahweh God's will, to the old testament sacrifices with the work of its priests. There is nothing there speaking to Sabbath being observed or not. The new covenant is said in scripture itself concerning it to have God's law being placed in the believers' hearts, Jeremiah 31:33.

But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says Yahweh: I will put my law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This has the ten commandments, according to Yahweh's perfect will, still valid, though believers being in Christ are not themselves subject to judgment regarding such. But the law is good, and the Sabbath is holy, as it was said, not made holy if we make it so. It is to be remembered, and it is broken by any who require others to not have any observation of it, with opportunity for resting on the day, which is just possible with being in Christ, as it wasn't possible to really observe with that rest ever otherwise.

I understand there is this backlash at the Seventh Day Adventist positions, evidently with the bad experiences with them before. It doesn't apply to these points at all though, which are using scriptures.

 

[bugkiller]

There is not even attention really given to the scriptures with which I am answered. Those from Hebrews confirm that the new covenant has the superior offering, with the blood of Christ with his death with consenting according to Yahweh God's will, to the old testament sacrifices with the work of its priests. There is nothing there speaking to Sabbath being observed or not. The new covenant is said in scripture itself concerning it to have God's law being placed in the believers' hearts, Jeremiah 31:33.

The first 2/3 of the sentence disallows your view. Sorry

But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says Yahweh: I will put my law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This has the ten commandments, according to Yahweh's perfect will, still valid, though believers being in Christ are not themselves subject to judgment regarding such. But the law is good, and the Sabbath is holy, as it was said, not made holy if we make it so. It is to be remembered, and it is broken by any who require others to not have any observation of it, with opportunity for resting on the day, which is just possible with being in Christ, as it wasn't possible to really observe with that rest ever otherwise.

Not according to the previous 2 verses (2/3 of the sentence).

I understand there is this backlash at the Seventh Day Adventist positions, evidently with the bad experiences with them before. It doesn't apply to these points at all though, which are using scriptures.

Misusing Scriptures, yes.

bugkiller

 

[FredVB]

There is not even attention really given to the scriptures with which I am answered. Those from Hebrews confirm that the new covenant has the superior offering, with the blood of Christ with his death with consenting according to Yahweh God's will, to the old testament sacrifices with the work of its priests. There is nothing there speaking to Sabbath being observed or not. The new covenant is said in scripture itself concerning it to have God's law being placed in the believers' hearts, Jeremiah 31:33.

The first 2/3 of the sentence disallows your view. Sorry

No, it doesn't disallow it. It does not matter how sorry you really are. The new covenant is the new covenant of blood, that is, the blood of Christ, with his life that was shed for us. It is not the new covenant of other law. So it is law of those commandments that are to be placed in believers' hearts.

But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says Yahweh: I will put my law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This has the ten commandments, according to Yahweh's perfect will, still valid, though believers being in Christ are not themselves subject to judgment regarding such. But the law is good, and the Sabbath is holy, as it was said, not made holy if we make it so. It is to be remembered, and it is broken by any who require others to not have any observation of it, with opportunity for resting on the day, which is just possible with being in Christ, as it wasn't possible to really observe with that rest ever otherwise.

Not according to the previous 2 verses (2/3 of the sentence).

Yes, according to those. You should not kill. You should not steal. You should not commit adultery. Or do you say you should, or it doesn't matter? Sabbath was not made an exception, and we have verses showing it is holy, itself, and also it was made for man. This is with merely using scripture passages for that. There aren't scripture passages used to show it isn't so.

I understand there is this backlash at the Seventh Day Adventist positions, evidently with the bad experiences with them before. It doesn't apply to these points at all though, which are using scriptures.

Misusing Scriptures, yes.

Not at all, as you don't have verses to show they are misused. There is just the criticism of Seventh Day Adventists, however justified it might be, it doesn't address the scripture passages that are relevant.

 

[Bob S]

Hi Fred, You tell us there is no difference in any of the commandments as far as being written on our hearts, I really differ with you and here is one reason why. It is my personal experience becoming a Sabbath observer. I studied for 2 years with a group of Sabbath observers ( I don't care for the term "keepers" because no one really has ever kept the requirements of Torah except Jesus). At the end of those 2 years my wife and I joined the Sabbath observers. Not one time in those 2 years did the Holy Spirit or the writings on my heart ever prompt me to become an observer. After 2 years of study we became acquainted with a lot of church members and really felt at home around them. The written 10 commandments I thought I fully understood and because of the 4th commandment we started attending the church. From birth until this moment I have been pricked by the Holy Spirit to do what is right to God and my fellow man. Never from birth up until this moment have I ever been pricked to observe a day. During all those years I have asked people if the Holy Spirit ever placed the burden on them to observe Sabbath. Never did I get an answer that any of them ever even thought about observing. That should tell you something. It is easy to tell us that the 10 are written on the hearts of man, but to prove it is a different thing. I truly believe the law of love is written on man's heart and that would include the 9 of the old covenant. Morality is forever, ritual commands given to a how defunct Israel are mere shadows.

The greatest commandments were not part of the 10 commandments. That too should ring your bell. In Christ, Bob

 

[bugkiller]

No, it doesn't disallow it. It does not matter how sorry you really are. The new covenant is the new covenant of blood, that is, the blood of Christ, with his life that was shed for us. It is not the new covenant of other law. So it is law of those commandments that are to be placed in believers' hearts.

Please explain how "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt:" is the same law (covenant) written in stone. The complete passage says nothing about moving that covenant from stone to the heart.

Yes, according to those. You should not kill. You should not steal. You should not commit adultery. Or do you say you should, or it doesn't matter? Sabbath was not made an exception, and we have verses showing it is holy, itself, and also it was made for man. This is with merely using scripture passages for that. There aren't scripture passages used to show it isn't so.

The issue you present here is really about sin and wicked behavior. So let me ask you - how one can be in compliance with the new commandment Jesus gave in Jn 13:34 and sin (commit wickedness)? Please do not indicate obedience is by incidence. IOW because one does not murder they are observing the law.

Not at all, as you don't have verses to show they are misused. There is just the criticism of Seventh Day Adventists, however justified it might be, it doesn't address the scripture passages that are relevant.

Quoting and basing a point on part of a sentence is misuse and bearing false witness to deceive.

Why do I have to quote you the first 2/3 of a sentence you quoted from to prove misuse? I did not say anything about SDA on the passage. Why do you insist on making an issue and defending something I did not say?

I addressed the passage in question.

bugkiller

 

[1stcenturylady]

Since you repeatedly post that off-topic material and don't seem to know what you are linking too - I have started a thread for you - in a discussion area where your post is not simply a derailing CF forum rules breaking off-topic post.

2 minutes ago #1


hint: Your linked site says this --

================================================

6. December, 1844--Ellen Harmon's First Vision Changed Her Mind About the Significance of the "7th Month Experience."

Under date of May 30, 1847, James White wrote:

When she received her first vision, Dec. 1844, she and all the band in Portland, Maine, (where her parents then resided) had given up the midnight-cry, and shut door, as being in the past. It was then that the Lord shew her in vision, the error into which she and the band in Portland had fallen. She then related her vision to the band, and about sixty confessed their error, and acknowledged their 7th month experience to be the work of God.--James White, A Word to the Little Flock, p. 22.

================================

Do you even know what you are linking to???

If so - then go to the thread started for your benefit and show us your case.

Is there any book I could read that was just on her visions, describing each one? Thanks.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Hi Fred, You tell us there is no difference in any of the commandments as far as being written on our hearts, I really differ with you and here is one reason why. It is my personal experience becoming a Sabbath observer. I studied for 2 years with a group of Sabbath observers ( I don't care for the term "keepers" because no one really has ever kept the requirements of Torah except Jesus). At the end of those 2 years my wife and I joined the Sabbath observers. Not one time in those 2 years did the Holy Spirit or the writings on my heart ever prompt me to become an observer. After 2 years of study we became acquainted with a lot of church members and really felt at home around them. The written 10 commandments I thought I fully understood and because of the 4th commandment we started attending the church. From birth until this moment I have been pricked by the Holy Spirit to do what is right to God and my fellow man. Never from birth up until this moment have I ever been pricked to observe a day. During all those years I have asked people if the Holy Spirit ever placed the burden on them to observe Sabbath. Never did I get an answer that any of them ever even thought about observing. That should tell you something. It is easy to tell us that the 10 are written on the hearts of man, but to prove it is a different thing. I truly believe the law of love is written on man's heart and that would include the 9 of the old covenant. Morality is forever, ritual commands given to a how defunct Israel are mere shadows.

The greatest commandments were not part of the 10 commandments. That too should ring your bell. In Christ, Bob

The laws written on our hearts are the eternal laws of God. Jesus said them best. Matthew 22:36-40 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

 

[Bob S]

Is there any book I could read that was just on her visions, describing each one? Thanks.

If you go to egwwwritings.org and type in "I saw" many of here claimed visions will be available to you. Also type in "my accompanying angel".

 

[BobRyan]

Is there any book I could read that was just on her visions, describing each one? Thanks.

There is a free online website that has them all. Ellen G. White Writings in Multiple Languages

Over the 60 years of her ministry - over 2000 visions and inspired dreams. Not sure there is one complete list

from How Many Dreams and Visions Did Ellen G. White Have? | Ellen G. White Estate
So how many visions did she have? Arthur L. White, her grandson who worked with the Ellen G. White Estate for about 60 years, arrived at the estimate of about 2000 visions and prophetic dreams. He noted that in her early years the visions were less frequent but were longer in duration and more comprehensive in their content. In her later years the situation was reversed: the visions (including prophetic dreams) were more frequent, but they did not last as long, and they did not cover such a broad field of information in one vision as they had in earlier times. Elder White added, "From my contact with the work, I have been led to feel that if we were to strike an average of, say, one vision for every two weeks of her life ministry, and we know that in the later years oftentimes she was given two or three, or four or five visions a week, we would have a total of approximately 2,000 visions." So the figure is an estimate, but is seems to be a reasonable one.

30,000 pages of manuscript as I recall.

Ellen G. White: Supernatural Phenomena During Her Visions

And here is something called a "partial list" of them.

http://www.4eange.com/anglais/LIV/1888/MOL/PDF/MessengerOfTheLord-D.pdf





Speaking of "Sola Scriptura" what did you think of the subject of this thread - Exodus 20:11 ??

 

[BobRyan]

The laws written on our hearts are the eternal laws of God. Jesus said them best. Matthew 22:36-40 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

indeed they all depend on that rock-solid foundation of the Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" and Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself".

 

[BobRyan]

Hi Fred, You tell us there is no difference in any of the commandments as far as being written on our hearts, I really differ with you and here is one reason why. It is my personal experience becoming a Sabbath observer. I studied for 2 years with a group of Sabbath observers ( I don't care for the term "keepers" because no one really has ever kept the requirements of Torah except Jesus). At the end of those 2 years my wife and I joined the Sabbath observers. Not one time in those 2 years did the Holy Spirit or the writings on my heart ever prompt me to become an observer.

I like what Jesus said in John 16
“These things I have spoken to you so that you may be kept from stumbling. 2 They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.

 

[BobRyan]

No, it doesn't disallow it. It does not matter how sorry you really are. The new covenant is the new covenant of blood, that is, the blood of Christ, with his life that was shed for us. It is not the new covenant of other law. So it is law of those commandments that are to be placed in believers' hearts.

Yes, according to those. You should not kill. You should not steal. You should not commit adultery. Or do you say you should, or it doesn't matter? Sabbath was not made an exception, and we have verses showing it is holy, itself, and also it was made for man. This is with merely using scripture passages for that. There aren't scripture passages used to show it isn't so.

Not at all, as you don't have verses to show they are misused. There is just the criticism of Seventh Day Adventists, however justified it might be, it doesn't address the scripture passages that are relevant.

Amen.

Indeed - as we all know the saints should not take God's name in vain nor should they dishonor parents. Ephesians 6:2 reminds us of that fact about Parents and the TEN Commandments.

 

[BobRyan]

I got involved here because my former SDA neighbor suggested I check things out on the net. He tried for ten years to convert me.

Hmm - one would think he would either have sent you to an SDA web site - or to the SDA section of this web site... Curious.

 

[1stcenturylady]

There is a free online website that has them all. Ellen G. White Writings in Multiple Languages

Over the 60 years of her ministry - over 2000 visions and inspired dreams. Not sure there is one complete list



30,000 pages of manuscript as I recall.

Ellen G. White: Supernatural Phenomena During Her Visions

And here is something called a "partial list" of them.

http://www.4eange.com/anglais/LIV/1888/MOL/PDF/MessengerOfTheLord-D.pdf





Speaking of "Sola Scriptura" what did you think of the subject of this thread - Exodus 20:11 ??

Thanks, when I get some paper for my printer I'll see what I can print.

 

[Walter and Deborah]

"The SEVENTH day is the SABBATH of the Lord thy God" Exodus 20:10

The Lord's Day!

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words," Is 58:13

The Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath day - Mark 2:28

So also the "Sabbath was made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
From "Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23.



Until you read the actual Bible.

There you find that the "NEW Covenant" includes the LAW of God "written on the heart and mind" - Jeremiah 31:31-33.

And in Ephesians 6:2 we find that the 5th Commandment is the "first commandment with a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN - that scripture calls the "TEN Commandments"

The New Covenant is made with "the house of Israel" and that includes all Christians in Hebrews 8:6-10.


And of course


Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Gen 2:1-4
Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens
Exodus 20:11

And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and he entered,as his custom was, into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up to read. As it is today, but the Sabbath started Friday at evening, and ending Saturday at sunset. Luke 4:16

At the end of the 6th. day, until at end of 7th. day

 

[Bob S]

And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and he entered,as his custom was, into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up to read. As it is today, but the Sabbath started Friday at evening, and ending Saturday at sunset. Luke 4:16

At the end of the 6th. day, until at end of 7th. day

Hi W&D, If I were a Jew and lived at the time of Jesus I would have entered and worshiped too. I am not claiming to be a Jew and I don't live when and where Jesus lived. Jesus lived under the old covenant you and I don't. Jesus said that He kept His Father's commands and He asked us to keep His commands. His command is that we believe in Him and love others as He loves us. He loves us so much that He laid down His life for you and me. There isn't anything in the 10 that come close to how we are to treat our fellow man and ourselves. The greatest commandment in all of scripture is not in the 10 commandments yet churches thump the 10 as if they are the answer to all the problems in the World. Some even demand that Christians observe days meant only for now defunct Israel. Can you imagine that?

Please read 2Cor 3:7-11. Christians are not under the ritual Sabbath of the 10 commandments. The remainder of the 10 are part of the law of love. I love my neighbor therefore I will do nothing to harm him and if need be I will lay down my life for him. Jesus did it for you and me. In Christ, bob

 

[BobRyan]

And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and he entered,as his custom was, into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up to read. As it is today, but the Sabbath started Friday at evening, and ending Saturday at sunset. Luke 4:16

At the end of the 6th. day, until at end of 7th. day

Amen! So it is with those who embrace sola scriptura testing of all doctrine and practice!

 

[BobRyan]

Hi W&D, If I were a Jew and lived at the time of Jesus I would have entered and worshiped too. I am not claiming to be a Jew

Don't take it so hard - Walter and Deborah are apparently like me in that they are New Covenant Christians.

Go here and you can vote for or against the New Covenant as applicable to yourself -- Mar 3, 2017 #1

For those who don't remember what the New Covenant actually says --

Heb 8
8“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.