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NO MORE PREACHING ON HELL

RaymondG

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Hey guys can I switch this up a little bit.....?????
I know I posted the thread on hell and the teaching and preaching that there really is a hell just as there is a heaven, there is a hell. Just as there is a God there is a satan. Just as there is good there is bad.

My point is this....... to say there is a hell means that there is a satan, right? or no?
To say there is a heaven means that there is a God, right? or no?

And if there is a God who sits on the throne, and IF there is Jesus who died for our sins and is seated at the right hand of the Father, ever making intercession for us, pleading our case........

Why would Jesus plead our case if there wasn't an accuser? And if so who is the accuser?

So what is Jesus trying to intercede and save us from?? what is to be saved from???
Who is accusing us?
And what's his point in accusing us?
What can he gain for accusing us?

Why would it take a life, displayed in public, beaten and tortured for what "HE claimed" was for our sins to be washed away and the perfect Lamb was slain.......Thats a high cost and the price was paid, what did the blood of Jesus save us from???
Good points and questions.......Here a questions that I've always wondered....

Why would Jesus go through all of that if he knew that it wouldnt have as much power as Adam eating the apple? Through Adam, death came to all...But even though Jesus' sacrifice was so great.....Life only will come to a few.....e.g. the reason the Hell fire preaching it so necessary.
 
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Solomons Porch

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Good points and questions.......Here a questions that I've always wondered....

Why would Jesus go through all of that if he knew that it would have as much power as Adam eating the apple? Through Adam, death came to all...But even though Jesus' sacrifice was so great.....Life only will come to a few.....e.g. the reason the Hell fire preaching it so necessary.
say it again :amen::amen::amen::amen::amen:
 
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Well I agree that we need to remind people the stakes are high, but I honestly think the 1980's RUINED Christianity for a lot of people. All the hell and fire and brimstone televangelists and Born-Again folks running around screaming from the rooftops about Beelzebub, the lake of fire, and getting saved while cheating on their wives, collecting obscene amounts of money from gullible people, and living scandal finally affirmed what liberal atheists and agnostics had opined about for years---Christianity is a hypocritical bunch of hot air. The more we focus on the flames and sulfur, it seems the less we get through to people.

Good example is the Garden of Eden. The West focuses so much on God, in his FURY and anger, thrusting Adam and Eve out of paradise to give them a firm kick in the butt and teach them a lesson and punish their idiocy/disobedience. In the East we focus on the two trees---one is the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and the other is the Tree of Immortality. God did not want Adam and Eve to immortalize their sinful nature by eating tree 2 after tree 1, so he expelled them to protect them. It was for their own good, not wrath or fury or anger. God is impassible.

Most people that come to Orthodoxy who want the Ancient Faith and not some modern-concocted individualist interpretation are THRILLED to hear of a loving God, a Father, not a monster. God is love, and our own ego and sin put us in the prison. I tend to focus on the John the Baptist idea of dying to self over the "Sataaaaaaaaan!" evangelical television guy in the white suit yelling about! ^_^:sorry::sorry::sorry:

I agree that we are to reach people thru the message of Jesus Christ in His love there is no denying that. But even if we take away the word "hell" and replace it with "consequences" for denying Him and living a sinful unrepentant lifestyle, going about our selfish lustful desires of life, never accepting the ramifications of sinning......

I just wonder where does that lead people if we are only choosing "the good" and leaving out the "bad". As one suggested earlier in this thread that she thinks the world is greatly improving as compared to the good ole days......I still dont know what to say about that because it blows my mind. God Bless !! Thank you for sharing.
 
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LoveofTruth

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eternal fire sounds like forever as well. How do you explain the eternal fires that burnt Sodem and Gamorrah? Jude 1:7
The fires of Sodom and Gamorrah still burn the sinners in hell and in the lake of fire one day, we also read

"7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." (Jude 1:7)
 
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PROPHECYKID

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The first lie the devil ever told had to do with God telling Adam and Eve they would surely die and Satan telling them they would not surely die but instead, they will attain a higher state. This is pretty much what many christians believe today.

Concerning the question of will the wicked burn in hell forever I only have this point to make. The bible says the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life. I ask this simple question. In order to be tormented forever, wouldn't you need to be given eternal life? A dead person cannot be tormented.
 
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PROPHECYKID

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The fires of Sodom and Gamorrah still burn the sinners in hell and in the lake of fire one day, we also read

"7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." (Jude 1:7)

Luk_17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
2Pe_2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
 
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Solomons Porch

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Well I agree that we need to remind people the stakes are high, but I honestly think the 1980's RUINED Christianity for a lot of people. All the hell and fire and brimstone televangelists and Born-Again folks running around screaming from the rooftops about Beelzebub, the lake of fire, and getting saved while cheating on their wives, collecting obscene amounts of money from gullible people, and living scandal finally affirmed what liberal atheists and agnostics had opined about for years---Christianity is a hypocritical bunch of hot air. The more we focus on the flames and sulfur, it seems the less we get through to people.

Good example is the Garden of Eden. The West focuses so much on God, in his FURY and anger, thrusting Adam and Eve out of paradise to give them a firm kick in the butt and teach them a lesson and punish their idiocy/disobedience. In the East we focus on the two trees---one is the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and the other is the Tree of Immortality. God did not want Adam and Eve to immortalize their sinful nature by eating tree 2 after tree 1, so he expelled them to protect them. It was for their own good, not wrath or fury or anger. God is impassible.

Most people that come to Orthodoxy who want the Ancient Faith and not some modern-concocted individualist interpretation are THRILLED to hear of a loving God, a Father, not a monster. God is love, and our own ego and sin put us in the prison. I tend to focus on the John the Baptist idea of dying to self over the "Sataaaaaaaaan!" evangelical television guy in the white suit yelling about! ^_^:sorry::sorry::sorry:
Have you ever noticed how you can see right through people? Their words say far more than even "they" understand. White suit evangelical television guy? Have you ever noticed so many words with so few meaning?

I heard this the other day.
If you love me Im in your heart.
If you hate me Im in your head.

His ways are not our ways........
May we come to the full knowledge of God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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The fires of Sodom and Gamorrah still burn the sinners in hell and in the lake of fire one day, we also read

"7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." (Jude 1:7)

IS Sodom and Gomorrah still burning with "eternal Fire" today?
If so please tell me where so I can go see what this eternal fire looks like.
 
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PROPHECYKID

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RaymondG

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IS Sodom and Gomorrah still burning with "eternal Fire" today?
If so please tell me where so I can go see what this eternal fire looks like.
Also....if eternal fire, doesnt seem to be permanent what does that say about eternal life?
 
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Neogaia777

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Also....if eternal fire, doesnt seem to be permanent what does that say about eternal life?
I believe it is a perpetual internal "burning" like your soul or spirit continuously being discontented, and unsettled, and unhappy, weeping and gnashing of teeth, complete lack and absence of any kind of "peace", that is "eternal"...

I don't think it is a literal "fire"...

God Bless!
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Also....if eternal fire, doesnt seem to be permanent what does that say about eternal life?


Eternal fire means it can not be quenched it goes out when all the material is turned to ash as it will be for those that suffer the second death by being cast into the lake of fire.

Eternal life means no second death
 
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Original Happy Camper

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I believe it is a perpetual internal "burning" like your soul or spirit continuously being discontented, and unsettled, and unhappy, weeping and gnashing of teeth, complete lack and absence of any kind of "peace", that is "eternal"...

I don't think it is a literal "fire"...

God Bless!

So the unrighteous inherit eternal life?
 
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PROPHECYKID

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I believe it is a perpetual internal "burning" like your soul or spirit continuously being discontented, and unsettled, and unhappy, weeping and gnashing of teeth, complete lack and absence of any kind of "peace", that is "eternal"...

I don't think it is a literal "fire"...

God Bless!

Well the fires of Sodom and Gomorrah was literal and God said that the distruction that took place there will be an example of what will happen to the ungodly.
 
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RaymondG

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Well be careful because God is eternal.
You be careful as well, because it seems you don't know what eternal means. So let's stop with all the guessing. Mans wisdom is foolishness to God. To say you are right and anyone else is wrong is pointless.
 
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PROPHECYKID

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You be careful as well, because it seems you don't know what eternal means. So let's stop with all the guessing. Mans wisdom is foolishness to God. To say you are right and anyone else is wrong is pointless.

You need to be honest. Why won't you attempt to answer my question. Isn't there an obvious apparent contradiction when one scripture described the fires of Sodom and Gomorrah as eternal and another scripture describes it as a past even which has done its work and has ceased. When we offer an explanation as to how we understand what seems to be a contradiction you don't. What is your explanation? Can someone be tormented forever if they do not have eternal life? If no then explain how the fire torments them forever in the true sense of the word? I've heard nobody offer an alternative explanation. If the second death is the penalty for the wicked then is the second death really life in torment?
 
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