Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

[Dave-W]

Sir. Did you want to discuss THE BAPTISM or water baptism?

I am talking about Christian Water Baptism; which is one of 7 different baptisms listed in the New Testament.

 

[miknik5]

The whole bible is NOT only about how to get saved. There are many things that are of great importance but are NOT salvic.

Did you know that the WHOLE BIBLE is THE TESTIMONY of JESUS?

 

[Wolf_Says]

The whole bible is NOT only about how to get saved. There are many things that are of great importance but are NOT salvic.

Yes, however, John 3:5 is pretty clear. The better question is how, given that verse, water baptism NOT salvic??

 

[Dave-W]

NT belief includes baptism, so one has not believed until he has been baptized.

There is zero biblical support for that statement.

The NT does not teach deathbed salvation.

So the guy on the cross next to our Lord was NOT saved?

 

[Dave-W]

Did you know that the WHOLE BIBLE is THE TESTIMONY of JESUS?

OF course. And 90% of it is about how to live AFTER one is saved.

 

[RaymondG]

NT belief includes baptism, so one has not believed until he has been baptized. The NT does not teach deathbed salvation.

What about the thief on the cross.....has religion made an exception for him........or do we just dismiss it with "we dont know if he was baptized sometime before getting on the cross?"

 

[miknik5]

NT belief includes baptism, so one has not believed until he has been baptized. The NT does not teach deathbed salvation.

one can believe and then be baptized. One in their death bed can believe and can be given the symbolic water baptism but THE BAPTISM by GOD is what washes and makes clean

And that BSPTISM is though hearing and believing THE TRUTH of THE SON of GOD who came forth from THE FATHER and into the world for the salvation of all who believe

Even that one on their death bed

 

[TheSeabass]

There is zero biblical support for that statement.

Eph 2:8-----------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
1Peter 3:11-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>>saves

Since there is just one way to be saved, no alternatives, then a NT saving faith must include baptism.

So the guy on the cross next to our Lord was NOT saved?

He is not an example of NT salvation.

1)
Hebrews 9:16-17 when Christ promised the thief paradise both Christ and thief were alive and under the OT law. Christ, the testator of the NT had not yet died so the NT was not yet in force.

2)
Romans 10:9
Romans 6:3-5

From Romans 10:9 a NT belief requires one to believe that God "hath raised" (Past tense) Christ from the dead

From Romans 6:3-5 NT baptism is where one is baptized into Christ's death.

Again, when Christ promised the thief paradise Christ had not died so neither of these two NT requirement could not be met by the thief and were not requirements under the OT law.

Therefore any and all attempts in trying to use the thief to "prove" baptism is not essential to salvation have failed and will continue to fail.

 

[miknik5]

OF course. And 90% of it is about how to live AFTER one is saved.

Water baptism

7 different ways

Please start explaining

Thanks

 

[TheSeabass]

What about the thief on the cross.....has religion made an exception for him........or do we just dismiss it with "we dont know if he was baptized sometime before getting on the cross?"

Again,
He is not an example of NT salvation.

1)
Hebrews 9:16-17 when Christ promised the thief paradise both Christ and thief were alive and under the OT law. Christ, the testator of the NT had not yet died so the NT was not yet in force.

2)
Romans 10:9
Romans 6:3-5

From Romans 10:9 a NT belief requires one to believe that God "hath raised" (Past tense) Christ from the dead

From Romans 6:3-5 NT baptism is where one is baptized into Christ's death.

Again, when Christ promised the thief paradise Christ had not died so neither of these two NT requirement could not be met by the thief and were not requirements under the OT law.

Therefore any and all attempts in trying to use the thief to "prove" baptism is not essential to salvation have failed and will continue to fail.

You are making the ASSUMPTION the thief was never baptized, so the "thief argument" also dies on this assumption

 

[miknik5]

Actually it is a LOT more than that. It has supernatural implications.

Dave,

Can you do please tell me about THE CHURCH?

And how can one become a member of THE CHURCH?

 

[TheSeabass]

one can believe and then be baptized. One in their death bed can believe and can be given the symbolic water baptism but THE BAPTISM by GOD is what washes and makes clean

And that BSPTISM is though hearing and believing THE TRUTH of THE SON of GOD who came forth from THE FATHER and into the world for the salvation of all who believe

Even that one on their death bed

No such thing in the NT gospel as "symbolic baptism".

 

[Dave-W]

ph 2:8-----------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
1Peter 3:11-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>>saves

Since there is just one way to be saved, no alternatives, then a NT saving faith must include baptism.

So are you saying that I was not saved for those first 10 years, even though I had led others to faith in Jesus?

 

[Dave-W]

Dave,
Can you do please tell me about THE CHURCH?
And how can one become a member of THE CHURCH?

Yes I can, but it would be off topic in this thread.

Ask it in a more appropriate venue.

 

[Dave-W]

 

[RaymondG]

Nice spin, but your wrong. Nicodemus even asked how a man could go back inside his mother's womb, and Jesus rebuked him saying " Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.c]">[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew.’d]">[d] 8 The winde]">[e] blows where it wills, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know whence it comes or whither it goes; so it is with every one who is born of the Spirit.” John 3:5-8

You are trying to downplay the role of baptism in our salvation. If Jesus did not mean baptism in this, but meant natural birth, then why did Jesus go and become baptized by John in the river?

Matthew 3:13-17, and why after Jesus was baptized did God declare Jesus as his son when (of course) Jesus was His son since the very beginning of time?

It's simple, we are to be baptized "in water and spirit" or we cannot enter the kingdom of God.

There were no spins or downplays in my response......I even said you could be right and only asked questions.

you see......no matter how much Ive studied the driving manual and how plain the instructions are, I will not try to teach someone how to drive nor say i know how to drive until i step in the car and pass the road test.

Im much more careful with salvation....When i "Make it" then and only then would i say i know for sure.

In your post you wrote that Jesus said born of water and of spirit.... then references being born of flesh and spirit. It seems that maybe he should have made a third contrast with water baptism....instead he only mentioned two variations again.

I have no judgement for or against water baptism. There is definitely nothing wrong with going down in water.

 

[Wolf_Says]

What about the thief on the cross.....has religion made an exception for him........or do we just dismiss it with "we dont know if he was baptized sometime before getting on the cross?"

Baptism is the rule that we must live by, given to us by Jesus Christ. However, Jesus is God, and God can save anyone, whether they are baptized or not. The thief on the cross is an exception to the rule that we have been given, not the rule itself.

 

[Dave-W]

No such thing in the NT gospel as "symbolic baptism".

Correct.

 

[TheSeabass]

So are you saying that I was not saved for those first 10 years, even though I had led others to faith in Jesus?

Saving faith the NT speaks about includes baptism. If a person is not baptized then he does not have this saving faith. I know nothing about your personal life but I do know NT faith includes baptism.

 

[miknik5]

Again,
He is not an example of NT salvation.

1)
Hebrews 9:16-17 when Christ promised the thief paradise both Christ and thief were alive and under the OT law. Christ, the testator of the NT had not yet died so the NT was not yet in force.

2)
Romans 10:9
Romans 6:3-5

From Romans 10:9 a NT belief requires one to believe that God "hath raised" (Past tense) Christ from the dead

From Romans 6:3-5 NT baptism is where one is baptized into Christ's death.

Again, when Christ promised the thief paradise Christ had not died so neither of these two NT requirement could not be met by the thief and were not requirements under the OT law.

Therefore any and all attempts in trying to use the thief to "prove" baptism is not essential to salvation have failed and will continue to fail.

You are making the ASSUMPTION the thief was never baptized, so the "thief argument" also dies on this assumption

D

No such thing in the NT gospel as "symbolic baptism".

all these things these lower signs and symbols pointed us to ALL THE REALITIES FOUND in CHRIST JESUS

water baptism, just as John's ministry, declared all unclean and all need to be born again of THE IMPERISHSBLE SEED of CHRIST

Moses passing through the waters was also symbolic of passing through and being brought out of and into

In this case out from "Egypt" and into ISRAEL

Even Noah and the flood was symbolic of a NEW CREATION

All signs and symbols pointed to CHRIST

The TESTIMONY Of JESUS is THE SPIRIT of PROPHECY