Why do people like Seventh-day Adventist and Adventist doctrine?

[stuart lawrence]

, satan is desperate for people who go to church to believe they will attain heaven by obeying the law/ a justification / righteousness before God of observing the law. For satan knows Paul wrote the truth when he stated:
The power of sin is the law( of righteousness) 1cor15:56

Obviously satan wants sins true power to remain in the christians life. He seems to have a lot of willing helpers.
People who say:
Obey the law or stand condemned( a law of righteousness)

 

[stuart lawrence]

Whichever country you live in the government has a set of laws you are required to obey. But just because their laws are written down or typed doesn't mean you in your heart want to obey them. Because that is so, every law your government has, has a penalty attached to it for noncompliance of the law, without that penalty you have a licence to break the law whenever you feel like it.
Many who go to church view the law God wants them to keep in the same way, for it is all the human mind can reason.
However, God has written the law on the believers mind he wants them to keep and placed it on their heart. What happens if you wilfully transgress this law? You get hut with a seering conscience , you have no rest, no peace until you come before your father in heaven and ask his forgiveness. If a person could walk into a shop, steal something, walk off down the road and say:

It doesn't matter I just broke Gods laws for I am not under a law of righteousness

That person was never born again in the first place. The law was never written on their mind and placed on their heart!
You cannot go against what is placed on your heart and have any peace or happiness by doing so.
But those without spiritual understanding can never see that, for they must reason with the natural mind. The spiritual is not understood by the natural mind.
The person led of the academic mind says:

You must link attaining heaven to the law, for otherwise you have a licence to sin.

But the truly born again christian has chosen their master, they in their heart want to obey God. They do not need heaven linked to obeying the law. For they love God. They don't want to obey for fear they will be cast into hell if they don't under a law of righteousness!
They in their heart want to obey, that will not change by the removal of a justification of observing the law.
Many sincere folk go to church. They in their hearts want to follow Jesus, but they never truly know how, for they simply believe what their denomination tells them in simple, childlike faith.
But others go to church who would never accept the truth, no matter how much was laid before them. They want to be good enough for God, for the flesh of man likes to believe he was good enough to attain heaven.
Such people will mercilessly attack grace being spoken of, and malign people who do speak of it anyway they can. And they will cling to a justification of observing the law for without that they cannot believe they have earnt their way to heaven by being good enough.
The Pharisees of Jesus day could reel off the letter of what was written, but had no understanding of the true message contained in that letter. So it is today

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Whichever country you live in the government has a set of laws you are required to obey. But just because their laws are written down or typed doesn't mean you in your heart want to obey them. Because that is so, every law your government has, has a penalty attached to it for noncompliance of the law, without that penalty you have a licence to break the law whenever you feel like it.
Many who go to church view the law God wants them to keep in the same way, for it is all the human mind can reason.
However, God has written the law on the believers mind he wants them to keep and placed it on their heart. What happens if you wilfully transgress this law? You get hut with a seering conscience , you have no rest, no peace until you come before your father in heaven and ask his forgiveness. If a person could walk into a shop, steal something, walk off down the road and say:

It doesn't matter I just broke Gods laws for I am not under a law of righteousness

That person was never born again in the first place. The law was never written on their mind and placed on their heart!
You cannot go against what is placed on your heart and have any peace or happiness by doing so.
But those without spiritual understanding can never see that, for they must reason with the natural mind. The spiritual is not understood by the natural mind.

Amen! True and beautiful; thanks!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The person led of the academic mind says:

You must link attaining heaven to the law, for otherwise you have a licence to sin.

Why <<the academic mind>>?
Is 'the legalist' not a better word?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

But the truly born again christian has chosen their master, they in their heart want to obey God. They do not need heaven linked to obeying the law. For they love God. They don't want to obey for fear they will be cast into hell if they don't under a law of righteousness!
They in their heart want to obey, that will not change by the removal of a justification of observing the law.
Many sincere folk go to church. They in their hearts want to follow Jesus, but they never truly know how, for they simply believe what their denomination tells them in simple, childlike faith.
But others go to church who would never accept the truth, no matter how much was laid before them. They want to be good enough for God, for the flesh of man likes to believe he was good enough to attain heaven.
Such people will mercilessly attack grace being spoken of, and malign people who do speak of it anyway they can. And they will cling to a justification of observing the law for without that they cannot believe they have earnt their way to heaven by being good enough.
The Pharisees of Jesus day could reel off the letter of what was written, but had no understanding of the true message contained in that letter. So it is today

Agreed on. But there's nothing anyone can do about it. All the children of God can do, is go on to delight in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and stand up for the integrity and inviolability of the Scriptures.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Dear friends if our hearts do not condemn us we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask because we obey his commands/ ments and do what pleases him
AND THIS IS HIS COMMAND: To believe in the name of his son Jesus Christ and to love one another as he commanded us
1 John3:21-23

This is so consoling and beautiful, it makes me feel almost sad -- I don't know how to say it really.
But is it not because this Law of and from the Father of our Lord and Saviour, resiliently turns up to be God's Law we least obey and most transgress?!

Let the legalist think about it, every time he as it were offers up his life for the Law and Law-Principle which is the principle of "REWARD" (of either life or death), believed he "in the Name of God's Son Jesus Christ", and believed he "to love one another as Jesus, commanded us to do"?

WHAT IS THE LEGALIST REALLY AND TRULY THINKING AND BELIEVING IN HIS HEART?

This is how I understand Stuart Lawrence. I may be wrong. But if I understand him right, I believe Stuart Lawrence is right -- absolutely right!

 

[stuart lawrence]

But is it not because this Law of and from the Father of our Lord and Saviour, resiliently turns up to be God's Law we least obey and most transgress?!

!

You are right, we all so often fall so very short of loving others as the bible tells us too, me included.
But in my experience, the more legalistic you are, the more in earnest you are as to a law of righteousness, the more love becomes a casualty of this approach.
As Jesus told the Pharisees:
They tithed down to their last mint, dil and cumin but neglected the love of God

 

[BobRyan]

, satan is desperate for people who go to church to believe they will attain heaven by obeying the law/ a justification / righteousness before God of observing the law. For satan knows Paul wrote the truth when he stated:
The power of sin is the law( of righteousness) 1cor15:56

Obviously satan wants sins true power to remain in the christians life. He seems to have a lot of willing helpers.
People who say:
Obey the law or stand condemned( a law of righteousness)

It is wrong to "Take God's name in vain" as we all know.

Inventing ways to accuse people of "Trying to earn their way to heaven by works - if they dare admit that Christians are not supposed to take God's name in vain" is foolish. I am glad we can all see that point clearly.

Imagine such opposition to the Word of God - that each time we are reminded that it is wrong to Take God's name in vain - we immediately get this - (as if obeying God's Word is the sure path to perdition)

Jesus said:

The measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you
Matt7:2

Can you imagine what will happen on judgement day to people who insist you must obey the TC to attain heaven.
Hope they perfectly obeyed them!!!

 

[BobRyan]

Obedience comes from faith( rom1:5)

And of course Paul tells us the law is not based on faith Gal5:12

Paul tells us that we our faith "ESTABLISHES the LAW"

"Do we then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

NEW Covenant includes "THE LAW of God written on the heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 and it STILL says that in the NT - Hebrews 8:6-10

 

[BobRyan]

Of course the Christian who understands the truth doesn't look to the written code of the law placed within them for obedience, for scripture tells us under the NC we are released from the law/ written code. The christian looks to Christ.

James 2 flatly contradicts all efforts to toss out the scripture - and rely on "feelings" instead.


James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

It based on "He who said"


Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

- Mark 7:6-13 shows that even they were in error when exalting their traditions to a level that messed around with one of the Commandments of God.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

It is true in mark ch7 Jesus called the Pharisees hypocrites for ignoring commandments whilst clinging to the traditions of men.

True - "Commandments of God" which He called "The Word of God" and "Moses Said"

Which commandments did the Pharisees ignore?
Well Jesus mentioned the fith of course

Indeed and Paul said the 5th commandment "is the FIRST Commandment with a promise" in that still valid unit of TEN.

He also said "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

Bible details soooo incredibly easy to see - that no amount of hand-waiving or smoke-and-mirrors will erase them.. as I am sure we all agree.

In your hurry to move to some text other than Mark 7 you missed "the details" where Christ shows how they set the traditions and "commandments of men" in opposition to the explicit stated commandment of God.

 

[BobRyan]

Suppose that in reality "obeying God's Word is the sure path to perdition" for a moment. A bit of fiction but indulge me.

Then would Satan have the perfect argument in Genesis 3 when debating Eve.

 

[stuart lawrence]

So my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him that was raised from the dead
For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies bearing fruit for death.
But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, NOT the old way of the written code
Rom7:4-6

 

[stuart lawrence]

They may be ever seeing but never perceiving
And ever hearing but never understanding
Mark4:12

 

[stuart lawrence]

But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law, so Tha we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not the old way of the written code/law rom7:6

However:

Many after drinking the old wine don't want the new, for they say: The old is better
Luke5:39

 

[stuart lawrence]

I do wonder why people keep stressing:
You must obey the TC

Is the finger of God more weightier than the word of God?

Why don't these people stress:
You must obey the commands in the beatitudes( matt chs5-7)

I can only imagine it I because they somehow convince themselves they obey the letter That kills. Obviously they don't understand what obedience to that law entails, or they shut their eyes to it!

But to obey the beatitudes, well that's another matter entirely. To obey that law requires a whole lot of love for others.
Something I have always found missing in those who relentlessly stress:
You must obey the TC

 

[stuart lawrence]

Some people actually believe if they don't build physical objects of graven images, if they don't take the lords name in vain, if they go to church on a Saturday, show love to their parents, don't steal, commit the physical act of adultery, murder, bear false witness("though many who stress law do) if they tithe, don't get drunk, have extra marital affairs or use foul language they have a free pass to heaven.
Oh the deceived! The Pharisees of Jesus day would have passed those tests with flying colours, but they didn't know God

 

[stuart lawrence]

One phrase Jesus used a lot was:

Beware of the teachers of the law.
Another was:
The yeast of the Pharisees was hypocrisy.

They did not practice what they preached/ demanded of others

 

[stuart lawrence]

Those who relentlessly stress:
You must obey the TC

know nothing of Spirit filled truth concerning the New Covenantal message.
They follow the letter/ written code. The bible very plainly states the christian does not do this

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Is the finger of God more weightier than the word of God?

They are the same, equal. It is our understanding that is incorrect.

The bible is in harmony through out. It is our understanding that is the problem as we try to twist it to fit mans interpenetration of it.

One phrase Jesus used a lot was:

Beware of the teachers of the law.
Another was:
The yeast of the Pharisees was hypocrisy.

Jesus was talking about the man made laws piled on top of the Royal Law.
Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law rom 3:31

In the preceeding ten verses Paul states:
The christian has no righteousness / justification of obeying the law
The christian has a righteousness Apart from law.
There can be no boasting for the christian for they are not justified before God by observing the law, they have a justification apart from obeying the law.
Now what would Paul's readers have thought after reading that?
The same as many in this debate think:

If That is true we don't have to worry about obeying God, we can live however we like for we have righteousness apart from law.
To correct those under such a misapprehension Paul wrote the final verse of the chapter.

Yet some quote rom 3:31 and will tell you:
Obey the TC or you are condemned.
Clearly they do not understand what Paul wrote in rom3:20-30, therefore they wont understand verse 31 either.
Actually that verse is in alignment wirh:
For sin shall no longer be tour master, for you are not under law but under grace rom6:14

Of course to understand and appreciate these two verses you must, according to Paul accept you are released from the law, and serve in the new way of the Spirit, not the old way of the written code.
To quote rom3:31 without understanding and accepting this is futile