Why do people like Seventh-day Adventist and Adventist doctrine?

[stuart lawrence]

They are the same, equal. It is our understanding that is incorrect.

The bible is in harmony through out. It is our understanding that is the problem as we try to twist it to fit mans interpenetration of it.




Jesus was talking about the man made laws piled on top of the Royal Law.
Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Read matt ch23
Jesus stated the Pharisees did not practice what they preached. They did practice the man made laws.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Jesus said he came to release the crushed, oppressed and downtrodden.
Why were the people in this state?

The Pharisees on the outside appeared such pious and holy people. They insisted the ordinary folk fully obey the law.
The people, looking at these Pharisees who appeared so Godly on the outside would assume the inside of the cup was the same as the outside.
How would this make sincere people feel?
Oppressed, downtrodden etc. They would know they could not fully obey the law relating to the inner man, yet they would assume the Pharisees did. Why else would they be demanding strict observance of the whole law?
Jesus said:

The Pharisees and teachers of the law sit In Moses seat, so you must be careful to do everything they tell you.
But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach
Matt23:2&3

The above does NOT relate to man made traditions, for in that regard the Pharisees did practice what they preached

That is why Jesus said BEWARE of the yeast of the Pharisees which is hypocrisy.

People who demand you fully obey the law, yet nowhere near fully obey it themselves

 

[Original Happy Camper]

They may be ever seeing but never perceiving
And ever hearing but never understanding
Mark4:12

Romans 3
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

Your posts indicate that you believe that the law is void. If so how can there be sin based on the above verses?

Remove the law
No sin
No sin no need for grace
No grace no need for a savior
No need for a savior why did Jesus die?

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Do you love Jesus based on John 14:15?

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Romans 3
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

Your posts indicate that you believe that the law is void. If so how can there be sin based on the above verses?

Remove the law
No sin
No sin no need for grace
No grace no need for a savior
No need for a savior why did Jesus die?

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Do you love Jesus based on John 14:15?

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Quote something I have written where I state the law is void.
Do you obey each and every literal command of Christ?
Do you even try to?

If you don't, does this mean you don't love Jesus?

 

[Original Happy Camper]

According to the person who wrote half the books of the NT, following the written code is following the old covenant, not the new one

God does not mind if you consider one day more holy/ sacred than another or whether you consider every day alike

You list nine out of ten of the commandments in the Old Covenant as being valid But the 4th of the ten you disregard as being invalid. You appear to be saying that Paul in his writings is at odds with Jesus Christ's teaching. The 4th says Remember THE SABBATH day of creation not any old day.

So based on your take of Paul's writings the following scripture would apply to Paul as he contradicts the teaching of Jesus throughout scripture on The Sabbath. Example Jesus said pray that your flight not be on the Sabbath day. This was said about a future event.

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truthin him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


Jesus never said if you love me keep nine of my ten commandments. He said If you love me keep my commandments.

 

[stuart lawrence]

You list nine out of ten of the commandments in the Old Covenant as being valid But the 4th of the ten you disregard as being invalid. You appear to be saying that Paul in his writings is at odds with Jesus Christ's teaching. The 4th says Remember THE SABBATH day of creation not any old day.

So based on your take of Paul's writings the following scripture would apply to Paul as he contradicts the teaching of Jesus throughout scripture on The Sabbath. Example Jesus said pray that your flight not be on the Sabbath day. This was said about a future event.

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truthin him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


Jesus never said if you love me keep nine of my ten commandments. He said If you love me keep my commandments.

One man considers one day more sacred/ holy than another. Another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind
Rom14:5

 

[stuart lawrence]

You list nine out of ten of the commandments in the Old Covenant as being valid But the 4th of the ten you disregard as being invalid. You appear to be saying that Paul in his writings is at odds with Jesus Christ's teaching. The 4th says Remember THE SABBATH day of creation not any old day.

So based on your take of Paul's writings the following scripture would apply to Paul as he contradicts the teaching of Jesus throughout scripture on The Sabbath. Example Jesus said pray that your flight not be on the Sabbath day. This was said about a future event.

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truthin him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


Jesus never said if you love me keep nine of my ten commandments. He said If you love me keep my commandments.

When I became a christian I became conscious of sin, for the law God requires us to keep is written on our minds and placed on our hearts by the Holy Spirit, and through the law we become conscious of sin.
I was never conscious I sinned if I failed to observe a specific Saturday Sabbath.

You don't follow that law due to it being placed in your most inward parts, but because you read the literal words of the TC

BTW

You are quite entitled to hold to a set Sabbath day. You are not entitled to insist everyone else must

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Quote something I have written where I state the law is void.
Do you obey each and every literal command of Christ?
Do you even try to?

If you don't, does this mean you don't love Jesus?

Q-1 see above post
Q-2 no, I am a sinner, that is why I rely on the mercy of GOD
Q-3 Yes by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit
Q-4 Absolutely

Adam and Eve Disobeyed God and look where we are today.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

One man considers one day more sacred/ holy than another. Another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind
Rom14:5

Paul was dealing with the issues of the feast days and blood sacrifices, ceremonial laws, not the Sabbath of the Creation between the Gentiles and Judaizers. If you read that passage with the proper understanding then Paul's teaching is in line with that of Jesus Christ as then would be your understanding also.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

by the way the ceremonial law was fulfilled by Jesus Christ as our blood sacrifice at the cross. Only law given that could be fulfilled.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Paul was dealing with the issues of the feast days and blood sacrifices, ceremonial laws, not the Sabbath of the Creation between the Gentiles and Judaizers. If you read that passage with the proper understanding then Paul's teaching is in line with that of Jesus Christ as then would be your understanding also.

I did read it with proper understanding, you do not

 

[Original Happy Camper]

When I became a christian I became conscious of sin, for the law God requires us to keep is written on our minds and placed on our hearts by the Holy Spirit, and through the law we become conscious of sin.

What law was written on your mind? Would you please define them from scripture.

 

[stuart lawrence]

What law was written on your mind? Would you please define them from scripture.

It would take too long.
Simple answer is.
You know which law is placed within you, for you have heartfelt conviction you sin if you wilfully transgress it

 

[Original Happy Camper]

I did read it with proper understanding, you do not

So based on your take of Paul's writings the following scripture would apply to Paul as he contradicts the teaching of Jesus throughout scripture on The Sabbath. Example Jesus said pray that your flight not be on the Sabbath day. This was said about a future event.

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truthin him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Then this is a fact according to you.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Then this is a fact according to you.

The fact is you follow the written code, the believer is told not to do that

 

[Original Happy Camper]

It would take too long.
Simple answer is.
You know which law is placed within you, for you have heartfelt conviction you din if you wilfully transgress it

So you determine what the law is that has been placed in your mind, sounds like justification for sin to me. You never even mentioned the Holy Spirit doing the placement. Therefore they could be different laws for everybody. Great Theology.

Second lie told to Eve. You will become like GOD.

It is by beholding Jesus we become changed and through him we can keep his commandments as he said to love me is to keep my commandments.

 

[mmksparbud]

You must be conscious you sin if you fail to keep the law placed within you. On this point bob Ryan and i agree. He and you believe the fourth commandment as written is written on your mind and placed on your heart. Therefore you must believe every christian is conscious they sin if they fail to observe a specific seventh day Sabbath.
Yet at the same time as you hold That belief, you both, as well as the sda church accept people as christians who have no consciousness they sin by failing to observe a specific seventh day Sabbath
I have to say, yours and his failure to acknowledge the ridiculous position you find yourselves in, the contradiction of That position is to me, mind boggling.
You are not interested in accepting the truth here are you, just fanatically claiming your churches position is correct when it Is impossible for That to be true

And I thought you were only going to write this once.

The ridiculous position is that God gives conviction about everything all at once. Instead of as they mature in Christ.
The ridiculous position is that we can not ignore conviction under the guise of "I know better than that."

Act_9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

People can be "pricked" for a long time before they either ignore completely or give in.

 

[stuart lawrence]

So you determine what the law is that has been placed in your mind, sounds like justification for sin to me. You never even mentioned the Holy Spirit doing the placement. Therefore they could be different laws for everybody. Great Theology.

Second lie told to Eve. You will become like GOD.

It is by beholding Jesus we become changed and through him we can keep his commandments as he said to love me is to keep my commandments.

The holy Spirit places the law within you.
I have found those who look to the written code sin far more than those who do not

 

[stuart lawrence]

And I thought you were only going to write this once.

The ridiculous position is that God gives conviction about everything all at once. Instead of as they mature in Christ.
The ridiculous position is that we can not ignore conviction under the guise of "I know better than that."

Act_9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

People can be "pricked" for a long time before they either ignore completely or give in.

This is the covenant I will make with them after that Time says the Lord
I will write my laws in their minds and place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.

Scripture please that states the law is only gradually placed within the believer.

Of course if you are right, the christian gets a licence to sin. That isn't the deal!!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I do wonder why people keep stressing:
You must obey the TC

Is the finger of God more weightier than the word of God?

Why don't these people stress:
You must obey the commands in the beatitudes( matt chs5-7)

I can only imagine it I because they somehow convince themselves they obey the letter That kills. Obviously they don't understand what obedience to that law entails, or they shut their eyes to it!

But to obey the beatitudes, well that's another matter entirely. To obey that law requires a whole lot of love for others.
Something I have always found missing in those who relentlessly stress:
You must obey the TC

You only judge, judge, judge. And always the Sabbath believers, never the higher order of the Law of Love prattle braggarts.