Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

[keras]

Back at you. Now what? I think (but not sure) that I have pointed out where and why I believe that there is a rapture (just not a pre-trib rapture). Matthew 24 and Revelation 7 for starters. Support can be found here and there in many other places, like 1 Corinthians 15 for example. You don't have to believe in a rapture, but don't try to claim there is no basis for such a belief.

We need to be clear on what it is we believe or disbelieve.
I disbelieve a rapture removal to heaven for two reasons: Such a thing as a large group of people going to heaven is never stated in the Bible.
And Bible prophecy says that God will finally have a people in His holy Land, being as He always wanted them to be, His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, and a light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8
There WILL be a rapture of sorts, at the Return of Jesus, when He sends out His angels to gather His people from everywhere they are at that time, to where He is -in Jerusalem. Matthew 24:31, 1 Thess 4:15-17

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Major1]

Daniel 11:14 refers to a "vision". This links back to chapter 10 as to what will befall Daniel's people in the latter days.

Antiochus the great is found in
Daniel 11, but not his sons. Verse 13 is where it splits off into the end days.

We still wait for a king that wars to the west and can't get back to his land -is not found.

Antiochus III warred to the west, went back to his land and ruled longer, then died in the east as slain by a mob with his troops when he tried to plunder a pagan
temple.

Nothing will fit as to the kings of
the long ago past for verses 14-to the end of chapter 11.

Daniel 10:14
"Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days...the vision..."

Daniel 11:14
"And in those times...to establish the vision..."

Daniel 11:21
"And in his estate shall stand up a vile person...come in peaceably..."

Antiochus IV came to power by murder -as there was a usurper on the throne.

I am afraid I have to disagree with you my friend.
Actually my brother, it is Dan. 11:36 where the spit takes place. The "KING" in verse #36 is the future A/C.

11:2-35 is history to us today but future to Daniel.

It would also help you I think to know that there is 150 years between Dan. 11:2 and 11:3.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I would like someone to please show me where a rapture is mentioned in Revelation since the only thing I see mentioned in Revelation are resurrections..................................
.

I would think the 2 witnesses in Reve 11 would be the first "rapture".
It is pretty similar to the event of the resurrection event in the Valley of the Bones and Lazarus..........

Ezekiel 37:
10 So I prophesied as He commanded me and a breath/spirit came into them and they lived and they stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.
11 Then He said to me, "Son of adam, these bones are the whole house of Israel.
[Revelation 11]

Lazarus and 2 witnesses of Reve 11 similarity
Lazarus and 2 witnesses of Reve 11 similarity

John 11:
39 Jesus is saying "take away ye!" the stone.
Martha,the sister of the one having died, is saying to Him "Lord, already he stinking, for it is fourth-day
43 And these saying, to a great Voice He cries-out "Lazarus, hither out!"

Reve 11:
11 And after the three and half days, a breath of life out of the God entered in them and they stand upon their feet and fear great fall upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a Voice great out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!"
And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud....

.

 

[Major1]

Just nothing something>

Daniel was not told to close the book of Daniel in Daniel 12. He was reading the words of the Scripture of truth and had to close it.

Daniel 11 is what was revealed to Daniel from the Scripture of truth and this was to reveal the timing of the vision shown to him in Daniel 10 as to the latter days upon his people.

Daniel 11:1
is where the holy being revealing the Scripture of truth to Daniel is telling about himself and "now
will I shew thee the truth.

Daniel 10:21
"But I will shew thee thee that which is written in the scripture of truth..."

Daniel 12:4
:...Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book..."

Revelation then is "In-veiling" of Daniel.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We? ..... maybe you, but not we

Have a ball in the tribulation

From what I read here, the Jews get first dibs on the Trib:

Rom 2:9
tribulation and distress, upon every soul of man that is working the evil, both of Jew first, and of Greek;

Mat 24:9
then they shall deliver you up to tribulation, and shall kill you, and ye shall be hated by all the nations because of my name;

Jhn 16:33
these things I have spoken to you, that in me ye may have peace,
in the world ye shall have tribulation, but take courage -- I have overcome the world.'

Rev 7:14
and I have said to him, 'Sir, thou hast known;'
and he said to me, 'These are those who are coming out of the great tribulation, and they did wash their robes, and they made their robes white in the blood of the Lamb;




.

 

[Major1]

I would think the 2 witnesses in Reve 11 would be the first "rapture".
It is pretty similar to the event of the resurrection event in the Valley of the Bones and Lazarus..........

Ezekiel 37:
10 So I prophesied as He commanded me and a breath/spirit came into them and they lived and they stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.
11 Then He said to me, "Son of adam, these bones are the whole house of Israel.
[Revelation 11]

Lazarus and 2 witnesses of Reve 11 similarity
Lazarus and 2 witnesses of Reve 11 similarity

John 11:
39 Jesus is saying "take away ye!" the stone.
Martha,the sister of the one having died, is saying to Him "Lord, already he stinking, for it is fourth-day
43 And these saying, to a great Voice He cries-out "Lazarus, hither out!"

Reve 11:
11 And after the three and half days, a breath of life out of the God entered in them and they stand upon their feet and fear great fall upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a Voice great out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!"
And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud....

.

The First Resurrection has several "Phases".

1st....
Jesus Christ The resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, the “firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

2nd....
The Old Test. Saints At the earthquake attending the crucifixion, graves were opened. Shortly after the resurrection of Christ, these saints were raised and were taken to heaven with Jesus.

3rd......
Church--- The resurrection of Church-age believers at the Rapture.

4th....
Two Witnesses -- God’s two witnesses will be raised after being killed by The Beast.

5th....
The Tribulation martyrs will be resurrected so that they can rule and reign with Christ.

 

[Major1]

From what I read here, the Jews get first dibs on the Trib:

Rom 2:9
tribulation and distress, upon every soul of man that is working the evil, both of Jew first, and of Greek;

Mat 24:9
then they shall deliver you up to tribulation, and shall kill you, and ye shall be hated by all the nations because of my name;

Jhn 16:33
these things I have spoken to you, that in me ye may have peace,
in the world ye shall have tribulation, but take courage -- I have overcome the world.'

Rev 7:14
and I have said to him, 'Sir, thou hast known;'
and he said to me, 'These are those who are coming out of the great tribulation, and they did wash their robes, and they made their robes white in the blood of the Lamb;




.

You are very correct. God's purpose for the tribulation which is the seven-year, 70th week of Daniel, revolves around His plan for Israel and does not include a earthly presence for the church.

Why is that and why do some people reject the Rapture? Because God's plan for Israel is unfinished at this point in history. When the last lost sinner comes to Christ and completes the church it will be taken as a completed body to heaven in an instant-at the rapture.

This will clear the way for a restoration and resumption of progress toward the completion of our Sovereign Lord's plans for His elect nation-Israel.

 

[Straightshot]

[Romans 11:25-36]

 

[keras]

You are very correct. God's purpose for the tribulation which is the seven-year, 70th week of Daniel, revolves around His plan for Israel and does not include a earthly presence for the church.

I have had enough of this false teaching. It's pure rubbish.
You rapture believers tout your precious theory, quoting scriptures that never actually say God intends to take His people to heaven. It's all a fabrication, a construct made up from human ideas and wishful thinking. You fail to see what God actually does plan for His people and when proof of your error is presented, you just gloss over or ignore it.

The church; God's holy people are present on earth for all of the end times and when Jesus Returns, they will be gathered to Him.
This is proved by Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7 and Revelation 13:7, where the holy people are in the Land of Israel when the Anti-Christ comes there in force and conquers them. Zechariah 14:1-2
Revelation 12:1-17 is another proof of Christians facing persecution, two groups: those faithful to the Covenant: taken to safety, and those who violated it; Daniel 11:32, remaining in the holy Land.

This scripture applies to all who promote false theories;
Isaiah 56:9-12 All you beasts of the open country and the forest, come and eat your fill. For all of Israel’s watchmen are blind, perceiving nothing, they are all as dumb dogs that cannot bark, dreaming and sleeping. They are like greedy dogs that can never be satisfied, they are shepherds unable to understand the truth, as they go their own way. They say: Come let us fetch wine, strong drink and we will swill it down. The future will be the same as today or better still!

 

[DingDing]

You are very correct. God's purpose for the tribulation which is the seven-year, 70th week of Daniel, revolves around His plan for Israel and does not include a earthly presence for the church.

...

I do not believe the above statement can be proven from scripture.

 

[Psalm3704]

I think you have some kind of mental problem. And I'm not just trying to be mean. I really think you should get some counseling.

I already answered your stupid question. It truly is a stupid question, but as a courtesy I still answered you thinking you might stop asking but you keep asking the same stupid question.

I think the reason you keep asking is because you know you can't prove your ridiculous claim, so you're trying to put me on the defensive. So I guess that's my answer. You don't have any proof that those people went to heaven. Let's move on.

If I can find several scriptures of one person who was resurrected and lived on earth till he died a second death, why can't you find just one single verse on the many people that were resurrected in Matthew 27:50-53?

John 11:11 New King James Version (NKJV)
These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”

John 11:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead.

John 11:43 New King James Version (NKJV)
Now when He had said these things, He cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth!”

John 12:2 NKJV
There they made Him a supper; and Martha served, but Lazarus was one of those who sat at the table with Him.

John 12:9-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 Now a great many of the Jews knew that He was there; and they came, not for Jesus’ sake only, but that they might also see Lazarus, whom He had raised from the dead. 10 But the chief priests plotted to put Lazarus to death also,

I think the reason you keep asking is because you know you can't prove your ridiculous claim, so you're trying to put me on the defensive. So I guess that's my answer. You don't have any proof that those people went to heaven. Let's move on.

I would say the reason why you keep wanting to change the subject and argue new things is because you can't prove your ridiculous claim.

Why do you keep telling me to "let it go" when you keep asking me new questions? DUH!!! It's like, you're telling me, hey come back and let's argue some more! You don't get to pick and choose what you want to argue all the time, communication is a two-way street.

If you wanna let it go, stop asking more questions, ole wise.................guy, who wants to continue arguing but on new topics so he can weasel out from the old one.

If you want me to let it go, just stop asking me more questions. I can assure you once you stop, I won't be asking you about Matthew 27:50-53 anymore. Life is simple, you just make it complicated.

We know your motives and MO.

btw, how's it going?









.

 

[Major1]

I do not believe the above statement can be proven from scripture.

I do hope that you do not think that I sit and make stuff up just to impress anyone.

The explaination of the Tribulation would be way to long but you can do the work yourself and see that what I said it absolutely Biblical. I will post some Scriptures for you and YOU can look them up.

Isaiah 13:9, 24:19-20.....
"To make an end of wickedness and wicked ones" ------
The first purpose for the tribulation is seen to be a punishment in history upon the whole world for its sins against God, in a way similar to that of the global flood in Noah's days as seen in Matthew 24:37-39.

Deuteronomy 30:7 tells us that God will.......
" inflict all these curses on your enemies and on those who hate you, who persecuted you."-----
This will take place during the tribulation and will be retribution to the nations for how they have treated the Jews during the last 2,000 years. This purpose does not encompass the church.

Daniel 9:24 -----speaks of a period of time that God has given .....
“to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.”

The church, made up of all who have trusted in the person and work of the Lord Jesus to save them from being punished for sin, will not be present during the tribulation. The church will be removed from the earth in an event known as the rapture told to us in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53.

The church is saved from the wrath to come in 1 Thessalonians 5:9. Throughout Scripture, the tribulation is referred to by other names such as the Day of the Lord in Isaiah 2:12; 13:6-9; Joel 1:15; 2:1-31; 3:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; trouble or tribulation in Deuteronomy 4:30; Zephaniah 1:1; the great tribulation, which refers to the more intense second half of the seven-year period Matthew 24:21; time or day of trouble Daniel 12:1; Zephaniah 1:15; time of Jacob's trouble Jeremiah 30:7.

 

[Major1]

I have had enough of this false teaching. It's pure rubbish.
You rapture believers tout your precious theory, quoting scriptures that never actually say God intends to take His people to heaven. It's all a fabrication, a construct made up from human ideas and wishful thinking. You fail to see what God actually does plan for His people and when proof of your error is presented, you just gloss over or ignore it.

The church; God's holy people are present on earth for all of the end times and when Jesus Returns, they will be gathered to Him.
This is proved by Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7 and Revelation 13:7, where the holy people are in the Land of Israel when the Anti-Christ comes there in force and conquers them. Zechariah 14:1-2
Revelation 12:1-17 is another proof of Christians facing persecution, two groups: those faithful to the Covenant: taken to safety, and those who violated it; Daniel 11:32, remaining in the holy Land.

This scripture applies to all who promote false theories;
Isaiah 56:9-12 All you beasts of the open country and the forest, come and eat your fill. For all of Israel’s watchmen are blind, perceiving nothing, they are all as dumb dogs that cannot bark, dreaming and sleeping. They are like greedy dogs that can never be satisfied, they are shepherds unable to understand the truth, as they go their own way. They say: Come let us fetch wine, strong drink and we will swill it down. The future will be the same as today or better still!

Do you really not understand how far off you are from Bible truth.

You quoted Isiah 56:9-12 so that you can accuse those of us who disagree with you. But you see, you completely misunderstood what Isaiah was saying and who he was saying it to and WHY he said. YOU only used it to attack those who disagree with you..........SHAME on you my brother.

The context of Isaiah is that the prophets of Israel were failing as are the people today who falsely assume that TOMORROW SHALL BE AS THIS DAY. That has been and still is the worldly philosophy of those who neither take time to foresee the coming judgment of God nor His offer to be saved to those who will not repent. Instead, they continue on as before falsely thinking that the next day will bring more of the same.

Your lack of Bible understanding is appalling. Somewhere along the line of your Christian life you missed some basic 101 Bible teaching.

Every single Bible verse you quote is taken completely out of context and has nothing to do in supporting your agenda.

In the Church I attend now, we have what is called Sunday School every Sunday before the worship hour. I would recommend to you that you find a church that does that also and then begin in the "Basic Learners Class" and spend some time in study.

I am not trying to embarrass or hurt you in any way..........but dadgummed brother.

 

[DingDing]

You are very correct. God's purpose for the tribulation which is the seven-year, 70th week of Daniel, revolves around His plan for Israel and does not include a earthly presence for the church.
...

I do not believe the above statement can be proven from scripture.

I do hope that you do not think that I sit and make stuff up just to impress anyone.

No, I rather think you are simply repeating what you have been taught, without ever having giving it serious thought.

The explaination of the Tribulation would be way to long ...

Okay, but I suggest you need to take the time to do this. So, can you define this "Tribulation"? Specifically how long will this "Tribulation" last, and who or what is involved during this "Tribulation". (I believe you are going to be hard pressed to 'prove' many of the things that you have been taught concerning this "Tribulation" period.)

...but you can do the work yourself and see that what I said it absolutely Biblical.

I've probably been "doing the work myself" for over 40 years. Which is why I question what you think this "Tribulation" is. (Well, not that I question what you think it is, but rather I question what you can prove from scripture. If you were to attempt to 'prove' what you say the "Tribulation" is, you might come to realize that much of what you have been taught is based upon assumption.)

I will post some Scriptures for you and YOU can look them up.

I've probably looked at all these far more times than you could believe.

The church is saved from the wrath to come in 1 Thessalonians 5:9. Throughout Scripture, the tribulation is referred to by other names such as the Day of the Lord in Isaiah 2:12; 13:6-9; Joel 1:15; 2:1-31; 3:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; trouble or tribulation in Deuteronomy 4:30; Zephaniah 1:1; the great tribulation, which refers to the more intense second half of the seven-year period Matthew 24:21; time or day of trouble Daniel 12:1; Zephaniah 1:15; time of Jacob's trouble Jeremiah 30:7.

There are a great many assumptions here. Can you prove them? Do you even see them? Let's take 1 Thessalonians 5:9 for example. So exactly what "wrath" is the church to be saved/exempt from? Do you not know that Daniel's 70th week (actually in Book of Revelation) speaks of two distinct periods of wrath - one attributed to satan and the other to Jesus/God? (see Revelation 6:16 and Revelation 12:12) Your 'assumption' is that it is a 7 year period of wrath which the church is exempt from. So where does that come from? Certainly not from the text of 1 Thessalonians 5:9 itself.

So this is the problem I have. The pre-trib view you have is built upon a number of inter-twinned assumptions. And these assumptions are so inter-twinned that it is extremely difficult for most to unravel them. There are just so many assumptions in this last paragraph of yours. You have assumed equivalences between so many terms - but then that is what you have been taught. You are going to be hard-pressed to try to think outside of (or even question) the box that you have spent so much time in.

 

[Straightshot]

"exactly what "wrath" is the church to be saved/exempt from?"

[Psalms 2; Romans 1:18-22; Revelation 3:10; 6:12-17]

His wrath is coming .... the day of the Lord

2550 days of unprecedented unrelenting vexation and destruction upon a world that has refused to believe the truth about Him

This is coming .... no doubt

 

[Major1]

No, I rather think you are simply repeating what you have been taught, without ever having giving it serious thought.



Okay, but I suggest you need to take the time to do this. So, can you define this "Tribulation"? Specifically how long will this "Tribulation" last, and who or what is involved during this "Tribulation". (I believe you are going to be hard pressed to 'prove' many of the things that you have been taught concerning this "Tribulation" period.)




I've probably been "doing the work myself" for over 40 years. Which is why I question what you think this "Tribulation" is. (Well, not that I question what you think it is, but rather I question what you can prove from scripture. If you were to attempt to 'prove' what you say the "Tribulation" is, you might come to realize that much of what you have been taught is based upon assumption.)



I've probably looked at all these far more times than you could believe.



There are a great many assumptions here. Can you prove them? Do you even see them? Let's take 1 Thessalonians 5:9 for example. So exactly what "wrath" is the church to be saved/exempt from? Do you not know that Daniel's 70th week (actually in Book of Revelation) speaks of two distinct periods of wrath - one attributed to satan and the other to Jesus/God? (see Revelation 6:16 and Revelation 12:12) Your 'assumption' is that it is a 7 year period of wrath which the church is exempt from. So where does that come from? Certainly not from the text of 1 Thessalonians 5:9 itself.

So this is the problem I have. The pre-trib view you have is built upon a number of inter-twinned assumptions. And these assumptions are so inter-twinned that it is extremely difficult for most to unravel them. There are just so many assumptions in this last paragraph of yours. You have assumed equivalences between so many terms - but then that is what you have been taught. You are going to be hard-pressed to try to think outside of (or even question) the box that you have spent so much time in.

You asked several excellent questions.

First.......
(1) "So, can you define this "Tribulation"?
(2) Specifically how long will this "Tribulation" last,
(3) and who or what is involved during this "Tribulation".

My answers are:
(1) The Tribulation is a future time period when the Lord will accomplish at least two aspects of His plan:......
A) He will complete His discipline of the nation Israel seen in Daniel 9:24.
B) He will judge the unbelieving, godless inhabitants of the earth seen in Revelation 6 - 18.
(2) The length of the Tribulation is seven years as seen in Daniel 9:24-27.
(3) Israel becomes the central focus of attention but the effects will be worldwide.

You did not ask, but the question should be WHY is it going to happen.

Jeremiah 30:7 ..........

‘Alas! for that day is great, There is none like it; And it is the time of Jacob’s distress,
But he will be saved from it."

Daniel 12:1 ...........

“Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book."

The prophet Daniel defined the length of the Tribulation. He said God would accomplish all His purposes for the Jewish people during a period of 70 weeks of years (490 years). Sixty-nine of those weeks of years (483 years) would lead up to the death of the Messiah.

Twice, in Jeremiah 25:10-14, 29:10-14, Jeremiah predicted that the captivity and desolation of Jerusalem would last 70 years. Israel sinned by not obeying the Sabbath for 70 Sabbath's which is 490 years hence the reason for 70 years of captivity.

70 Sevens (Weeks = Years) is 490 years and Biblical historians confirm that 483 years passed from the time of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the time when Jesus was crucified.
Not just a close prediction BUT TO THE EXACT NUMBER OF DAYS. Most Christian scholars, regardless of their view of eschatology, have the above understanding of Daniel's 70 sevens.

With 483 years having passed from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the cutting off of the Messiah, in Daniel 9:24, leaves one seven-year period to be fulfilled in terms to:
to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.”

This final seven-year period is known as the tribulation period—it is a time when God finishes judging Israel for its sin. THAT is the 7 Year Tribulation Period.

Now for 1 Thess. 5:9........
For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

For God did not appoint us to wrath: Before we had the hope of salvation in 1 Thessalonians 5:8, we had an appointment to wrath. We no longer have an appointment to wrath, but now to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

However, the "wrath" of God will be on display to the world during the 7 year Tribulation, but we as the Church, the Bride of Christ as saved from that event. You see, Tribulation is the unrighteous persecution of believers by unbelievers. Wrath is the righteous punishment of God poured out on those who reject Him. The Church will not suffer the wrath of God, but will be raptured or spared in some way from His judgment.

I am honored to speak with someone who has been in the Word for 40 years. If you live several more years you will have caught up with me.

I am however saddened that you see "assumptions" when in fact I go out of the way to post Scripture after Scripture to validate my comments.

1 Thess. 1:10........
"and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."

Do you consider that an assumption????

 

[DingDing]

You asked several excellent questions.

First.......
(1) "So, can you define this "Tribulation"?
(2) Specifically how long will this "Tribulation" last,
(3) and who or what is involved during this "Tribulation".

My answers are:
(1) The Tribulation is a future time period when the Lord will accomplish at least two aspects of His plan:......
...

The prophet Daniel defined the length of the Tribulation. He said God would accomplish all His purposes for the Jewish people during a period of 70 weeks of years (490 years). ...

This final seven-year period is known as the tribulation period—it is a time when God finishes judging Israel for its sin. THAT is the 7 Year Tribulation Period.

Again, you are associating terms without warrant. So where is this "final seven-year period" called the " tribulation period"? You have not proven this yet.

Now for 1 Thess. 5:9...
For God did not appoint us to wrath: Before we had the hope of salvation in 1 Thessalonians 5:8, we had an appointment to wrath. We no longer have an appointment to wrath, but now to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Great words, but still empty words. You are not, and have not, addressed my point on the two "wraths" revealed in the Book of Revelation. Do you understand that the bible reveals two distinct periods of "wrath" which will occur during Daniel's 70th week? And do you not also recognize that not only do these two distinct "wraths" not overlap, but neither covers the whole of Daniel's 70th week? You seem to be intentionally avoiding this conversation.

However, the "wrath" of God will be on display to the world during the 7 year Tribulation... I am however saddened that you see "assumptions" when in fact I go out of the way to post Scripture after Scripture to validate my comments.

Your assumption is that the "wrath" the church is promised exemption from is the whole of Daniel's 70th week. I have pointed out from the Book of Revelation that there are actually two distinct "wraths" spoken of. You have not addressed this.

1 Thess. 1:10........
"and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."
Do you consider that an assumption????

Yes, in that you refuse to acknowledge that there are two distinct "wraths", and you refuse to distinguish between the two. So again, which "wrath" are we delivered from? And again, unless you can prove otherwise, they are distinct and neither covers the whole of Daniel's 70th week.

 

[Riberra]

You asked several excellent questions.

First.......
(1) "So, can you define this "Tribulation"?
(2) Specifically how long will this "Tribulation" last,
(3) and who or what is involved during this "Tribulation".

My answers are:
(1) The Tribulation is a future time period when the Lord will accomplish at least two aspects of His plan:......
A) He will complete His discipline of the nation Israel seen in Daniel 9:24.
B) He will judge the unbelieving, godless inhabitants of the earth seen in Revelation 6 - 18.
(2) The length of the Tribulation is seven years as seen in Daniel 9:24-27.

Are you saying that the 70 weeks of Daniel's prophecy have not been fulfilled by God in the prophesied 70 weeks ?

You seem to think that God have failed to accomplish His own prophecy in the allowed 70 weeks given to the Jew to cease their transgression and anoint the Messiah ?

Simply ask yourself:

How long does it take the Father to fulfill His own 70 week prophecy?

The obvious and correct answer is 70 weeks. If a 70 week prophecy is given and it is not fulfilled in 70 consecutive weeks, then the prophecy is not valid.

What week follows the 69th week?

The obvious answer is the 70th week, but the enemy would have you believe that there is a 1,990+ year time gap between the 69th and 70th week, even though there is no such time gap defined in Daniel 9.

Daniel 9:25 mentions the arrival of the promised Messiah, and then Daniel 9:27 mentions a ‘covenant‘. Whose covenant do you suppose that it is referring to?

Isn’t it logical to assume that it is Messiah’s covenant, as the reason that He came was to die to ratify the everlasting covenant with His blood as the Passover Lamb?

The text even proclaims that He was ‘cut off‘, meaning that He was killed, in the middle of the seven years, which matches Isaiah’s prophecy about the promised Messiah, in Isaiah 53:8, “He was taken from prison and from judgment. And as for His generation, who considered that He shall be cut off from the land of the living? For the transgression of My people He was stricken.“

The enemy’s end times deception is based on the concept of a futuristic 70th week of Daniel.

This is the very reason that the end times 7 year tribulation deception was created by the Roman Catholic Church.

They were being accused by the Protestant Reformers of being the Antichrist system who persecuted the saints.

The Protestant Reformers told people to ‘come out of her‘, which caused millions of people to leave the Roman Catholic Church and be saved by the pure Gospel of Messiah.

The enemy has programmed our minds to view the 70th week of Daniel as futuristic. He has used Pastors, Left Behind movies, books, etc.

But when you understand that the 70th week of Daniel has been fulfilled, and that it’s not an end-times 7-year tribulation period; most of the enemy’s deceptions about prophecy fulfillment crumble to the ground.