Why do people hate the Seventh Day Adventists?

[LoveofTruth]

Nope---an angel can not make the ground holy--God alone can do that. There was only one being


there with Joshua.

Exo 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
Exo_3:5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

and it doesn't define who the captain is in the text.

also i did not say an angel can make the ground holy, I said an angel can tell others the ground is holy if God told him to say so. Very simple, not sure why yu are arguing about this

 

[LoveofTruth]

I find it remarkable that you keep talking as though you have a great audience.

it is for all those who may read this in this forum of all time

What are you talking about??

1 Cor 14 about when a man prophesies and the unbelievers get convicted and fall on their face before them and worship God and confess that God is in them of a truth. This falling down before men does not mean that they worship men as God, but they worship God speaking in them. This is what men may do if they hear a heavenly messenger for God as well. And we have examples of this

 

[mmksparbud]

and it doesn't define who the captain is in the text.

also i did not say an angel can make the ground holy, I said an angel can tell others the ground is holy if God told him to say so. Very simple, not sure why yu are arguing about this

Why are you---there was one being there with Joshua---one---Joshua worshipped Him, the being did not reprove him for it, instead told him the ground was holy. What angel can ever do such a thing?? Simple, very simple, it was no angel!

 

[LoveofTruth]

Why are you---there was one being there with Joshua---one---Joshua worshipped Him, the being did not reprove him for it, instead told him the ground was holy. What angel can ever do such a thing?? Simple, very simple, it was no angel!

All we know is he was captain of the Lords host, any assumption is just that. He does not say he is the Lord, very clear

 

[Paul Yohannan]

And no one has taught another Jesus, none has taught that Jesus is an angel--none has denied the Son. Sorry you can not see that Joshua would not have worshipped an angel--you refuse to even acknowledge this, it's obvious you do not want to see it.

In claiming that Jesus is St. Michael, or in denying in the manner of @EastCoastRemnant that He is God incarnate, there is a deviation from the apostolic faith regarding the identity of our Lord.

 

[mmksparbud]

it is for all those who may read this in this forum of all time






1 Cor 14 about when a man prophesies and the unbelievers get convicted and fall on their face before them and worship God and confess that God is in them of a truth. This falling down before men does not mean that they worship men as God, but they worship God speaking in them. This is what men may do if they hear a heavenly messenger for God as well. And we have examples of this

You are going to have to be more explicit than this for I read every single verse and there is nothing there about falling down and worshiping.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

Why are you---there was one being there with Joshua---one---Joshua worshipped Him, the being did not reprove him for it, instead told him the ground was holy. What angel can ever do such a thing?? Simple, very simple, it was no angel!

And once again, nothing in that chapter says "Michael."

 

[mmksparbud]

In claiming that Jesus is St. Michael, or in denying in the manner of @EastCoastRemnant that He is God incarnate, there is a deviation from the apostolic faith regarding the identity of our Lord.

You really need to quote the post where
Eastcoast made his statements--I went 5 pages back and can't find it and I'm not looking any more.
It's interesting that this topic has generated such feedback. I keep at it, for the simple reason that you all keep saying we are saying stuff we never did. We do not deny Jesus is the Son of God, we do not deny He is God, we do not deny that no one can worship an angel, we do not believe Jesus is a created being, and angel, we are not teaching another Jesus, yet everyone keeps saying we do---that is blatantly wrong. Now, if you want to disagree with what I believe, that Michael is Jesus, fine. It doesn't matter to me. I explain the reasons why I believe as I do, but I am not accusing you of saying stuff you haven't. I am not accusing you of preaching another Jesus or of denying who Jesus is. I don't believe this is a salvation issue, it isn't even in our doctrines of believes, but you're all thinking this is a salvation issue. I stand by what I have garnered from the bible, I see no reason to change my view, and it is quite all right with me, if no one, including my own church, would disagree with me---
No, Michael is not named by Joshua--he is named in only 4 places
Dan_10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
Dan_10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
Dan_12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Jud_1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Rev_12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

With Joshua, the one there is captain of the host of the Lord. And if you do not think that is Michael, no big deal. Whoever it is, it is no angel, for he allows himself to be worshiped, and says the ground is holy when none but God can say that. Michael obviously has angels under his command---"Michael and his angels" fought against the dragon. Not exactly a big stretch that he is also the captain of the hosts of the Lord with that description. But if you do not think so--fine. I'm not changing my mind-----and unless God shows me otherwise, I see no reason to. And if you think I'm spreading sedition and heresy and going to hell for it----that is your silly conclusion not mine so it doesn't bother me. I certainly don't think you're spreading heresy and sedition and going to hell over it. And I'm not going hysterical warning the world about your lack of believe how wrong you are about this.
Now, we've gotten to the point where I usually call it quits when I end up just having to repeat myself. If you come up with something new, great, otherwise, all I'm going to end up doing is copying and pasting my former statements---boring.

 

[LoveofTruth]

You are going to have to be more explicit than this for I read every single verse and there is nothing there about falling down and worshiping.

"24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth." (1 Cor 14:24,25 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

some things I was reading today

Seventh-Day Adventists Teach Jesus is Michael

this was from a SDA website as well they said

"We believe that the term "Michael" is but one of the many titles applied to the Son of God, the second person of the Godhead."

 

[LoveofTruth]

More concerns

Jude 1:9

King James Bible - "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

Clear Word Bible - "In contrast to these ungodly men is the Lord Jesus Christ, also called Michael, the archangel in charge of the entire angelic host. When He was challenged by Satan about His intentions to resurrect Moses, He didn't come against Satan with a blistering attack nor did he belittle him. He simply said, 'God rejects your claim to his body.'"

 

[mmksparbud]

"24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth." (1 Cor 14:24,25 KJV)

LOL!! Are you kidding me?? That isn't even close to what was going on with Joshua!
1Co 14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth." (1 Cor 14:24,25 KJV)

That is just saying if an unbeliever comes in and he is convinced of the truth, he will fall down and worship God. Doesn't say one single thing about there being an angel present.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

And if you think I'm spreading sedition and heresy and going to hell for it-

I don't think that. How could I regard another Christian as being beyond the reach of the mercy of our Lord?

I cannot guarantee your salvation, but I could not do that even if you were Orthodox. I have no idea whether or not either you or I are destined for the pearly gates or the lake of fire. I hope very much we are both destined for the former, as that would be rather more agreeable, and we would then be in a position to disregard these doctrinal differences.

I would not even be debating Adventism at all of Adventists were to desist from continually criticizing the Catholics and other traditional denominations.

 

[mmksparbud]

some things I was reading today

Seventh-Day Adventists Teach Jesus is Michael

this was from a SDA website as well they said

"We believe that the term "Michael" is but one of the many titles applied to the Son of God, the second person of the Godhead."

That is correct--that is what we have been saying! Michael, Jesus Christ, the
Son of God are one and the same. It is one of His many titles. Took you this long to get it???

 

[mmksparbud]

I don't think that. How could I regard another Christian as being beyond the reach of the mercy of our Lord?

I cannot guarantee your salvation, but I could not do that even if you were Orthodox. I have no idea whether or not either you or I are destined for the pearly gates or the lake of fire. I hope very much we are both destined for the former, as that would be rather more agreeable, and we would then be in a position to disregard these doctrinal differences.

I would not even be debating Adventism at all of Adventists were to desist from continually criticizing the Catholics and other traditional denominations.

I've never criticized a Catholic in my life!!
I disagree completely on many of their doctrines. As for the Pope and the beast stuff---that is called prophecy about political/religious powers---not calling the Pope a beast--it's talking about world powers and enforcing a Sunday law on everyone. Is that news? It's been on the books for ages and are being reinstated heavily pushed by Protestants and they make no secret of it. Good grief, even Pat Robertson is all for it and I heard him myself say so on TV. It is being endorsed as a way of uniting everyone and under the guise of it is for the benefit of the worker to make sure they have a day of rest and help the poor. It's no covert, under the shadows thing, it's right out in the open and the Pope has been wanting to implement it in Europe. You really have never heard of the European Sunday Alliance???!!
French trade union fights to preserve work-free Sunday
Union calls for two consecutive days of rest

Throughout the summer of 2016, French trade union for the commerce sector (Fédération des Employés et Cadres Force Ouvrière - Section Commerce) advocated for two consecutive work-free days, including Sunday as a day of rest.
European Sunday Alliance - Press Release

 

[LoveofTruth]

LOL!! Are you kidding me?? That isn't even close to what was going on with Joshua!
1Co 14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth." (1 Cor 14:24,25 KJV)

That is just saying if an unbeliever comes in and he is convinced of the truth, he will fall down and worship God. Doesn't say one single thing about there being an angel present.

It says that when a man speaks for God in prophecy, the unbeliever is convicted because God is speaking to him. It appears as if the man is the one doing the convicting but it is God in the man speaking and convicting by His Spirit. The unbeliever will fall on his face before the man and worship. But this worship is not towards the man ( though it would seem to be so to the undiscerning person) He is worshipping God. This is very similar to a captain of the Lord Host and Joshua falling down and worshipping, And the text doesn't say an angel in Joshua.

Also, Paul said when they received him they received him even as an angel from heaven. This is because his words were the word of God, not the word of men. But none should ever worship Paul or an angel.

If a person was in the Holy place in the tabernacle, that was a holy place because God was working in there and in type and shadow of His work. The Hugh priest might have told others this place is holy, and by simply telling others that a place is Holy doesn't make the person God and they did not make it holy.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

I've never criticized a Catholic in my life!!
I disagree completely on many of their doctrines. As for the Pope and the beast stuff---that is called prophecy about political/religious powers---not calling the Pope a beast--it's talking about world powers and enforcing a Sunday law on everyone. Is that news? It's been on the books for ages and are being reinstated heavily pushed by Protestants and they make no secret of it. Good grief, even Pat Robertson is all for it and I heard him myself say so on TV. It is being endorsed as a way of uniting everyone and under the guise of it is for the benefit of the worker to make sure they have a day of rest and help the poor. It's no covert, under the shadows thing, it's right out in the open and the Pope has been wanting to implement it in Europe. You really have never heard of the European Sunday Alliance???!!
French trade union fights to preserve work-free Sunday
Union calls for two consecutive days of rest

Throughout the summer of 2016, French trade union for the commerce sector (Fédération des Employés et Cadres Force Ouvrière - Section Commerce) advocated for two consecutive work-free days, including Sunday as a day of rest.
European Sunday Alliance - Press Release

"Two consecutive."

 

[LoveofTruth]

That is correct--that is what we have been saying! Michael, Jesus Christ, the
Son of God are one and the same. It is one of His many titles. Took you this long to get it???

no Michael is not a title but a name of a personal being, like John, or Paul or Michael. The meaning of Michael is who ( is) like God? It is not "he is God.

You are in great error here.

Michael is an angel, and yes he is a higher rank than others he is one of many arch angels. But still an angel none the less. This is the clear and sound teaching of scripture. And none are to worhship angels

 

[mmksparbud]

The unbeliever will fall on his face before the man and worship. But this worship is not towards the man ( though it would seem to be so to the undiscerning person)

It says no such thing. It clearly states he is so convicted he false on his face and worships but certainly no man even to the undiscerning. It still is in no way even remotely similar to Joshua--- But you hold on to your illusions.

 

[mmksparbud]

no Michael is not a title but a name of a personal being, like John, or Paul or Michael. The meaning of Michael is who ( is) like God? It is not "he is God.

You are in great error here.

Michael is an angel, and yes he is a higher rank than others he is one of many arch angels. But still an angel none the less. This is the clear and sound teaching of scripture. And none are to worhship angels

Nobody is.