Why do people hate the Seventh Day Adventists?

[BobRyan]

I mean words like "Reformation" and "Catholic" and "Lutheran" used outside of any meaningful context are just buzzwords.

Well a lot of people think that Lutheran and Catholic are denominations and that "protestant reformation" is a well known event in history.

Not sure why that is a problem for anyone.

You seem to think Catholics accused Lutherans of "sheep stealing". Of course by "sheep stealing" I don't mean people, by their own volition, choosing to adopt a new set of beliefs; I mean actively recruiting people of one church to come and join your own church. Lutherans didn't do this

hint - everyone Luther preached to -- was Catholic.

What if EVERYONE I preached to was... LUTHERAN. Might look like "sheep stealing" to a Lutheran.

Surely you can't be serious - we all know that it took a while for a "Lutheran church" to even emerge - Luther was preaching to Catholics. We call it "evangelism" but those on the otherside would call it "sheep steeling'.

Only instead of that "buzzword' they would say "apostatizing" = "spreading heresy" , "creating more heretics" causing some to "depart from the faith" -- they would have all sorts of "other buzzwords" as we all know.

So then when they condemn Luther - they specifically address the effectiveness of his doctrine on their own "sheep".

having listed the errors they find in Luther the RCC adds this 0

"No one of sound mind is ignorant how destructive, pernicious, scandalous, and seductive to pious and simple minds these various errors are, how opposed they are to all charity and reverence for the holy Roman Church who is the mother of all the faithful and teacher of the faith; how destructive they are of the vigor of ecclesiastical discipline, namely obedience. This virtue is the font and origin of all virtues and without it anyone is readily convicted of being unfaithful. "
from - Exsurge Domine (Papal Bull Condemning the Errors of Martin Luther, 1520)

The very accusations you claim they would never make against Luther.

"We have found that these errors or theses are not Catholic, as mentioned above, and are not to be taught, as such; but rather are against the doctrine and tradition of the Catholic Church, and against the true interpretation of the sacred Scriptures received from the Church. Now Augustine maintained that her authority had to be accepted so completely that he stated he would not have believed the Gospel unless the authority of the Catholic Church had vouched for it. For, according to these errors, or any one or several of them, it clearly follows that the Church which is guided by the Holy Spirit is in error and has always erred. This is against what Christ at his ascension promised to his disciples (as is read in the holy Gospel of Matthew): "I will be with you to the consummation of the world"; it is against the determinations of the holy Fathers, or the express ordinances and canons of the councils and the supreme pontiffs. Failure to comply with these canons, according to the testimony of Cyprian, will be the fuel and cause of all heresy and schism. "

===================== notice how they try to protect the sheep from being exposed to Luther's doctrine --


"With the advice and consent of these our venerable brothers, with mature deliberation on each and every one of the above theses, and by the authority of almighty God, the blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and our own authority, we condemn, reprobate, and reject completely each of these theses or errors as either heretical, scandalous, false, offensive to pious ears or seductive of simple minds, and against Catholic truth. By listing them, we decree and declare that all the faithful of both sexes must regard them as condemned, reprobated, and rejected . . . We restrain all in the virtue of holy obedience and under the penalty of an automatic major excommunication....


Moreover, because the preceding errors and many others are contained in the books or writings of Martin Luther, we likewise condemn, reprobate, and reject completely the books and all the writings and sermons of the said Martin, whether in Latin or any other language, containing the said errors or any one of them; and we wish them to be regarded as utterly condemned, reprobated, and rejected. We forbid each and every one of the faithful of either sex, in virtue of holy obedience and under the above penalties to be incurred automatically, to read, assert, preach, praise, print, publish, or defend them. They will incur these penalties if they presume to uphold them in any way, personally or through another or others, directly or indirectly, tacitly or explicitly, publicly or occultly, either in their own homes or in other public or private places. Indeed immediately after the publication of this letter these works, wherever they may be, shall be sought out carefully by the ordinaries and others [ecclesiastics and regulars], and under each and every one of the above penalties shall be burned publicly and solemnly in the presence of the clerics and people."

=======================

Clearly the RCC was doing everything in its power to stop the hemorrhaging -- the loss of not just a few sheep but entire countries to Luther's reformation.

Oh and by the way -- I am pretty certain that nobody "hates seventh-day Adventists" because the RCC made these charges against Martin Luther.

I am also sure that nobody "hates seventh-day Adventists" because Catholics were converting to Luther's POV during the protestant reformation.

But I do think there may be some Catholics on this board that view "turn-about as fair play" if it happens that Lutherans convert to the Baptist, or Methodist or Adventist church.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Simply yelling certain buzzwords as though that is sufficient to make a point does nothing.

Then why are you doing it?

 

[TwilightTom]

It's sad that there is hate towards a Church. The bible says
"Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar.
For whoever does not love their brother and sister,
whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen." 1 John 4:20
Regardless of what anyone believes, Christian grace should be extended to the other. Seventh Day Adventist's are humans and God's Children just as are Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Atheists, Muslims, Buddhists and any other person on this earth. Just because someone believes something different to you doesn't mean that God love's them any less or that he has picked you over them. God's grace extends to everyone and there is going to be people from every corner of the earth with different beliefs in Heaven.

 

[rturner76]

I know I don't hate 7th Day Adventists, however I have been many times thoroughly offended by some of it's followers who say the Pope is anti-christ and the Catholics are not "real" Christians but "follow a pagan doctrine." I've had those arrows slung at me quite a few times right here on Christian Forums. Accusations like that make people defensive and harbor an adversarial relationship between Christians. I mean that we may have differences but we are all baptized.

 

[AJTruth]

Hate is today, to strong a term.

I find their works bases message. Frustrating, hurtful to babes & overall dangerous.

Scripture teaches, we are not to MIX:

The Old works based Covenant & New by Grace thru Faith Covenant

Matt 9
16 No one puts a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the new patch tears away from the garment, & a worse tear is made

17 Neither is new wine put into old wineskins. If it is, the skins burst & the wine is spilled and the skins are destroyed. New wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved

Mark 2
21 No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. If he does, the new patch tears away from it, the new from the old, & a worse tear is made

22 No one puts new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins & the wine is destroyed, & so are the skins. But new wine is for fresh wineskins

Luke 5
36 He also told them a parable: No one tears a piece from a new garment & puts it on an old garment. If he does, he will tear the new, & the piece from the new will not match the old.

37 No one puts new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins & it will be spilled, & the skins will be destroyed

All 3 writers are showing us
Old garments & old wine = "OLD" covenant works by the law.

New garments & new wine = "NEW" covenant Grace thru faith

Lesson: Don't Mix the 2
Lk 39 Pharisee's want to keep the OLD. See (Matt 23:13, 23:37-39) to see what Jesus thought about them

Jesus healed & forgave sickness, people with demons, people caught in adultery (back then this carried the death penalty!) Yet, He forgave them. He constantly rebuked & reproved the Law loving Pharisee's

Rev 3
15 “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot!

16 So, because you are lukewarm & neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

Hot = "New" Covenant: Grace thru Faith

Cold = "Old" Covenant The Law by works.

Lesson: Mixing the two covenants makes Him want to throw-up (Rev 3:16)

So don't mix the works of the old covenant. And the GRACE of the New covenant

Jesus who was sinless (1 Pet 2:22, 2 Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, 1 Jn 3:5 1 Pet 1:19). On the Cross willingly took our deserved punishment for our sins & rebellion against God.

When we Place our Faith in the Sin Atoning Death, Burial & Resurrection Of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Our Sins are IMPUTED/TRANSFERED onto Jesus. At the same time Jesus righteousness is IMPUTED/TRANSFERED) to us

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that """justifieth the ungodly""", his faith is counted for righteousness.
(We don't deserve, can't work for, or earn righteousness. God justifies the ungodly thru Faith)

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom ""God imputeth righteousness without works""
(When we place our faith in Jesus. God imputes/transfers Jesus righteousness onto us. Imputed thru Faith, not works)

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Believer's, thru FAITH in the FINISHED SACRIFICIAL REDEMPTIVE WORK of CHRIST are: Forgiven/Reconciled/Justified/Sanctified/Fully Pardoned from all sin. And thru FAITH God is Glorified. Maranatha

 

[AJTruth]

Religion is about what you do. Your good works, law keeping, how much you give, your church attendance, prayer etc.

The Gospel is about what Christ did. His Death, Burial, Resurrection. And when we trust Him, what He can do thru/with/in us.

The prepositional phrase's: "In Christ" "In Him" "In Whom".

Are positional statements used over 100 times by Paul

Rom 8:1 There is now no condemnation for those who are "in Christ" Jesus

1 Cor 1:30 Because of him that you are "in Christ", who has become for us wisdom from God that is, our righteousness, holiness & redemption

2 Cor 5:17 If anyone is "in Christ", he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come

Gal 3:26 You are all sons of God thru faith "in Christ"

Eph 2:6 God raised us up with Christ & seated us with him in the heavenly realms "in Christ"

7 In order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us "in Christ"

Eph 2:10 We are God's workmanship, created "in Christ"

Eph 2:13 Now "in Christ" you who once were far away have been brought near thru his blood

Eph 3:6 This mystery is that thru the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of 1 body, & sharers together in the promise "in Christ"

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is "Christ in you", the hope of glory:

28 We proclaim him, teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect "in Christ"

1 Tim 1:14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith & love that "in Christ"

1 Tim 1:9 God saved us, & called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, according to his own purpose & grace, which was given us "in Christ" before the world began

2 Tim 2:1 My son, be strong in the grace that is "in Christ"

2 Tim 2:10 I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is "in Christ" Jesus, with eternal glory

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead "in Christ" will rise first

GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT """IN US""":
Eph 1:13 "In whom" ye also trusted (CHRIST), after that ye heard the word of truth (HIS SIN ATONING SACRIFICE), the gospel of your salvation (1 Cor 15:1-4 & Rom 10:8-13) "in whom" also after that ye believed (WHEN U ACCEPTED GODS GRACE & PLACED UR FAITH IN CHRIST), ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (UR SALVATION WAS SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT)

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
(Earnest means deposit: When we trusted Christ, God placed His Holy Spirit in us)

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
(The gives/places His Holy Spirit in us as a down payment)

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
(The Holy Spirit we see in Eph 1:13 sealed us. And now & forever dwells "IN" us)

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
(The Spirit of God dwells "INSIDE" us)

2 Timothy 1:14 14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
(The Holy Spirit "SEAL" that was committed to keep & protect us. Lives "INSIDE" us)

Believers IN CHRIST we are SEALED Forgiven, Reconciled, Justified & Have Eternal Life.

Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete "in him" which is the head of all principality and power. Maranatha

 

[BobRyan]

It's sad that there is hate towards a Church. The bible says
"Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar.

Great post!

indeed - we have a very poor and "flaming" title - for this thread

So as a "help" to those who want to discuss the subject of Seventh-day Adventists without also having to post in a thread title about "flaming" - I started a thread "Why do people LIKE Seventh-day Adventists". Where the same discussion about similarities and differences can be had - but without the "baggage" of the flaming title.

Inexplicably - that thread was shut down by the moderators - so we can focus on this sort of thread title.
Jan 28, 2017 #993

 

[sparow]

Hate is today, to strong a term.

I find their works bases message. Frustrating, hurtful to babes & overall dangerous.

Scripture teaches, we are not to MIX:

The Old works based Covenant & New by Grace thru Faith Covenant

Matt 9
16 No one puts a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the new patch tears away from the garment, & a worse tear is made

17 Neither is new wine put into old wineskins. If it is, the skins burst & the wine is spilled and the skins are destroyed. New wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved

Mark 2
21 No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. If he does, the new patch tears away from it, the new from the old, & a worse tear is made

22 No one puts new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins & the wine is destroyed, & so are the skins. But new wine is for fresh wineskins

Luke 5
36 He also told them a parable: No one tears a piece from a new garment & puts it on an old garment. If he does, he will tear the new, & the piece from the new will not match the old.

37 No one puts new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins & it will be spilled, & the skins will be destroyed

All 3 writers are showing us
Old garments & old wine = "OLD" covenant works by the law.

New garments & new wine = "NEW" covenant Grace thru faith

Lesson: Don't Mix the 2
Lk 39 Pharisee's want to keep the OLD. See (Matt 23:13, 23:37-39) to see what Jesus thought about them

Jesus healed & forgave sickness, people with demons, people caught in adultery (back then this carried the death penalty!) Yet, He forgave them. He constantly rebuked & reproved the Law loving Pharisee's

Rev 3
15 “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot!

16 So, because you are lukewarm & neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

Hot = "New" Covenant: Grace thru Faith

Cold = "Old" Covenant The Law by works.

Lesson: Mixing the two covenants makes Him want to throw-up (Rev 3:16)

So don't mix the works of the old covenant. And the GRACE of the New covenant

Jesus who was sinless (1 Pet 2:22, 2 Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, 1 Jn 3:5 1 Pet 1:19). On the Cross willingly took our deserved punishment for our sins & rebellion against God.

When we Place our Faith in the Sin Atoning Death, Burial & Resurrection Of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Our Sins are IMPUTED/TRANSFERED onto Jesus. At the same time Jesus righteousness is IMPUTED/TRANSFERED) to us

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that """justifieth the ungodly""", his faith is counted for righteousness.
(We don't deserve, can't work for, or earn righteousness. God justifies the ungodly thru Faith)

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom ""God imputeth righteousness without works""
(When we place our faith in Jesus. God imputes/transfers Jesus righteousness onto us. Imputed thru Faith, not works)

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Believer's, thru FAITH in the FINISHED SACRIFICIAL REDEMPTIVE WORK of CHRIST are: Forgiven/Reconciled/Justified/Sanctified/Fully Pardoned from all sin. And thru FAITH God is Glorified. Maranatha

Hate is the Bible translators choice; maybe they could have used different words, like dislike. The Bible usually defines itself; Jesus said if you hate someone its committing murder; now if one disliked a person that may be a lesser offence. Jesus said we may not hate the person but we may hate what the person does; Jesus hates the deeds of the Nicolaitanes and commends others for doing the same; laity is contained in that word.

I am not defending the SDA I am defending the truth.

<<<I find their works bases message. Frustrating, hurtful to babes & overall dangerous.>>>

Fundamentally the SDA are old time Methodists; do you consider observing the Sabbath is work or rest? Interestingly it never occurred to Ellen white to keep the Sabbath until she read a book written by a Baptist lady.

The SDA believe that they have a mission to preach the three angels messages to the world: Three Angels' Messages - Wikipedia.

Revelation 14:11-13 (NKJV) from the third angels message.
11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, "Write: 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.' " "Yes," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labours, and their works follow them."

Notice the teaching of Jesus verse 12, both the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, not one or the other. This is the doctrine of Jesus and also the doctrine of the SDA and in verse 13 when the saints rest in Jesus their works are not discarded.

<<<Scripture teaches, we are not to MIX:
The Old works based Covenant & New by Grace thru Faith Covenant >>>

The Word and Jesus teach not to mix God with Paganism which is called adultery; faith was required in the OT old covenant, although the translators in the KJV only rendered faith twice:
Deuteronomy 32:20 (NKJV)
20 And He said: 'I will hide My face from them, I will see what their end will be, For they are a perverse generation, Children in whom is no faith.

Habakkuk 2:4 (NKJV)
4 "Behold the proud, His soul is not upright in him; But the just shall live by his faith.

The Law is central to the new covenant; what is new in the new covenant is new management, new mediator, new sacrifice and new priesthood; but the wording of the covenant is not changed not even a dit or dot.

The nonsensical debate about faith verses works appears to have stemmed from the council of Trent but the works in this debate have nothing in common with the works James talks about:

James 2:26 (NKJV)
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God.
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

It is amazing, Luther originally considered the epistle of James as fake news, he later repented apparently.


<<<All 3 writers are showing us
Old garments & old wine = "OLD" covenant works by the law.>>>

The parable starting in Luke 5:36 has nothing to do with old and new covenants; He is talking about old and new religion and about coming deception and the need to fast after Christ leaves; in any case you missed the conclusion to the parable in verse 39; it is the old that is good.

New garments & new wine = "NEW" covenant Grace thru faith

 

[BobRyan]

Hate is the Bible translators choice; maybe they could have used different words, like dislike. The Bible usually defines itself; Jesus said if you hate someone its committing murder; now if one disliked a person that may be a lesser offence. Jesus said we may not hate the person but we may hate what the person does;

If someone says they "hate" the doctrine that Lutherans, or Baptists, or Catholics, or Methodists or Adventists teach -- well that is one thing. But the thread title is about hating the people themselves. Normally the "Why I like Catholics" would get preference by moderators over a thread titled "why I hate Catholics".

But in this example the thread "Why do some people like Seventh-day Adventists" gets shut down while the 'hate seventh-day adventists" version of the same discussions - is perhaps "protected speech".

In any case - I think we can do better.

 

[BobRyan]

Fundamentally the SDA are old time Methodists; do you consider observing the Sabbath is work or rest? Interestingly it never occurred to Ellen white to keep the Sabbath until she read a book written by a Baptist lady.

There was a sea captain by the name of Joseph Bates that had some connections with Seventh-day Baptists and was promoting the keeping of the Bible Sabbath while Ellen White was still a teen living at home "Ellen Gould" and later after she married James White - he also presented the Bible case for keeping the Bible Sabbath - to Ellen and James White. They eventually accepted that doctrine but not at first.

As you point out - the Millerites were not keeping the Bible Sabbath. However if you read sermons by D.L. Moody, and also read section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith as edited by C.H. Spurgeon (and also look at section 19 of the Westminster Confession of Faith) -- they all claim that all TEN of the Ten commandments are still applicable to the saints -- even after the cross. The early Millerites and later Adventists also held similar views. So the "Change" for them was in discovering that the Sabbath commandment could not be "edited" to point to week-day-1.

 

[sparow]

If someone says they "hate" the doctrine that Lutherans, or Baptists, or Catholics, or Methodists or Adventists teach -- well that is one thing. But the thread title is about hating the people themselves. Normally the "Why I like Catholics" would get preference by moderators over a thread titled "why I hate Catholics".

But in this example the thread "Why do some people like Seventh-day Adventists" gets shut down while the 'hate seventh-day adventists" version of the same discussions - is perhaps "protected speech".

In any case - I think we can do better.

Did anyone give any reasons for hating SDA people or did they give reasons for hating the church? The people who hate the Catholic Church are usually ex Catholics.

Some churches teach their members to hate the SDA but it is really God's Law they hate.

The reasons threads get closed (as a last resort) is forum rules are broken and someone complains; that doesn't mean there are not biases.

 

[Left]

I support Seventh Day Adventist beliefs in terms of seventh day Sabbath and the like, but am not a fan of all of their teachings, like what some say of them being the true Church of Revelation. What would that make me, a Seventh Day advocate? I find myself agreeing with a preacher on TV that I can't for the life of me remember the name of. If I figure it out, I will tell you.

 

[BobRyan]

Did anyone give any reasons for hating SDA people or did they give reasons for hating the church? The people who hate the Catholic Church are usually ex Catholics.

Interesting. I suppose the thread could have been titled in favor of the flame-post-topic "why do people hate the Seventh-day Adventist church" but it is more directed at the flame-post-idea of "why do people hate Seventh-day Adventists". So then how "odd" that the thread "why do some people like Seventh-day Adventist church" gets shut down while the "hate seventh-day Adventists" thread topic remains "protected" - I have brought this up several times to moderators but so far they don't seem to have figured out why that is the case other than the suggestion that may be the "hate seventh-day Adventist" thread has no flame posting in title or in posts.

The reasons threads get closed (as a last resort) is forum rules are broken and someone complains; that doesn't mean there are not biases.

Agreed that is generally the case - not sure how well it is being applied in this case. I keep offering to have this same discussion on a thread that does not fly in the face of CF forum rules - but the moderators shut that one down.

 

[BobRyan]

I support Seventh Day Adventist beliefs in terms of seventh day Sabbath and the like, but am not a fan of all of their teachings, like what some say of them being the true Church of Revelation. What would that make me, a Seventh Day advocate? I find myself agreeing with a preacher on TV that I can't for the life of me remember the name of. If I figure it out, I will tell you.

If you look in the Sabbath-and-the-Law forum under General Theology - you will find a lot of non-SDAs that also affirm the Bible Sabbath - are posting there.

 

[Left]

That's true. Deep down, I'm starting to realize I'm a SDA at heart though. I was looking through some of their Bible lessons for purpose of debate, and some of the stuff hit me hard today.

 

[BobRyan]

Aside from doctrinal discussions (which I love to participate in ) there are also commentaries with amazing descriptions of events past and future.


The 500+ page book "Desire of Ages" is a commentary on the life of Christ and includes the very best description of the suffering of Christ, His death and resurrection AND ascension into heaven of any commentary on the planet. Reads like an eye-witness account in some places - except it also includes "what they were thinking".

And it is free - online.

And the 500+ page book "Great Controversy" provides a description of the 2nd coming, the saints raptured and rising up to heaven, the saints in heaven, the saints returning after the 1000 year millennium and the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven - the new earth etc. Best descriptions of any commentary - bar none.

It also is free - online.

 

[Albion]

I know I don't hate 7th Day Adventists, however I have been many times thoroughly offended by some of it's followers who say the Pope is anti-christ and the Catholics are not "real" Christians but "follow a pagan doctrine." I've had those arrows slung at me quite a few times right here on Christian Forums. Accusations like that make people defensive and harbor an adversarial relationship between Christians. I mean that we may have differences but we are all baptized.

This would seem to raise an obvious question. Presbyterians don't normally go around bemoaning the fact that--as they see it--people hate them or their church. Methodists don't. Episcopalians don't. Indeed, hardly any of the many Christian denominations think that way. But as you note, both Catholics and Adventists do, plus probably a few others. So what is it that they have in common which might explain it, do you think?

 

[BobRyan]

This would seem to raise an obvious question. Presbyterians don't normally go around bemoaning the fact that--as they see it--people hate them or their church. Methodists don't. Episcopalians don't. Indeed, hardly any of the many Christian denominations think that way. But as you note, both Catholics and Adventists do,

Actually this is not my thread -- not sure who it is that likes the 'hate seventh-day adventists' topics.

I started one in response titled "why people like Seventh-day Adventists..." -- my much preferred topic where I say that the SAME discussions that take place here - can happen there without having all the baggage of "hate" tacked on to the "title" of the thread.

Inexplicably - that thread was shut down by the moderators - so we can focus on this sort of thread title.
Jan 28, 2017 #993

It was titled "Why do people like Seventh-day Adventist and Adventist doctrine?"

 

[sparow]

This would seem to raise an obvious question. Presbyterians don't normally go around bemoaning the fact that--as they see it--people hate them or their church. Methodists don't. Episcopalians don't. Indeed, hardly any of the many Christian denominations think that way. But as you note, both Catholics and Adventists do, plus probably a few others. So what is it that they have in common which might explain it, do you think?

No Church is perfect but I doubt the sins of the SDA are sins unto death; they may fail but they do not conspire against God; a lot of SDA are aware of their problems; they have a parable about themselves; to cut it short after much discussion over along time as to why their trolley car on their way to heaven has stopped moving when some one put their head out of the window and looked up and said, the reason we are not Going anywhere is be cause we are disconnected from the power above.

I personally don't think the three angels need help, but the SDA have made a commitment to God and are now require to keep it; and preaching God and His law will incite hatred; you should recall the English treatment of the Puritans. Some SDA believe it is not proper to offend the world but the two witnesses of Revelation preach the Law and are slain for doing it.

 

[Johan Abrahams]

On YouTube I watched how the SDA are a cult. According to my dictionary there is nothing wrong with being a cult.

Here the SDA defends itself:

All of us are growing . . .in understanding . . . meaning that all of us are wrong at some point . . .and as the wrong causes such a person to forfeit something of heavenly value . . .it does not mean that we can hate him/her. If we know the solution . . .obviously we need to give it without judging the person . . .as judgment of the person will also put us under judgment.
So . . .I love them . . .and debate with them and they with me . . .and the Spirit will reveal the Truth!
Love Johan