The evidence for Evolution.

[Mobezom]

Ignores them, or claim they don't exist?

There is no evidence for them.

If they don't claim they don't exist, why aren't they at least looking for them, instead of ignoring them?

They claim, with good evidence, that they do not exist - in a pragmatic sense. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, although absence of proof is not proof of evidence.

They hunt for everything else they don't think (or know) exists.

Not really.

Like Nessi, SETI, and yeti.

The Loch Ness Monster? Bah, science as a whole isn't searching for it. Besides, there is a way to determine whether it is there or not - taxonomy is a science of sorts.
SETI? Well, there's a decent chance that life exists somewhere else - we're building the satellites on the off-chance that they broadcast something. And besides, there's a clear test - if we receive communication, then they exist.
The Yeti? Bah, science as a whole isn't really searching for it. Besides, we have a test of reality - we can capture it, study it.
But angels? What test would we have for them?

Not to mention UFOs and ESP.

That's pseudoscience. It has been thoroughly disproven by the proper workings of science.

And the efficacy of prayer.

Only because people wouldn't stop bothering them.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Why do you suppose your educated comrades here couldn't answer that?

Do you think they're treating you like their spokesperson?

No, and I think they'd find me being their spokesperson to be very distasteful.

The reason why they don't answer you as directly as I do is that they find the question you asked to be ridiculous and pointless, since, to the atheists, it's like asking us if a nonexistent group of entities evolves, and to the theists, they generally will adhere enough to the biblical account to find the proposal blasphemous.

I answer you directly to avoid what would otherwise be pages dedicated to a simple question unnecessarily. That significant time be wasted debating the validity and motive for asking the question annoys me far more than any intellectual trap the question may or may not be a set up for. Besides, as a general rule for you, the intellectual traps you might set tend to rely on people not answering your questions directly and concisely.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

How did angels manage to bypass the process of evolution?

What angels?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Okay ... angels can't evolve.

But what evolved into angels?

Or did they somehow circumvent the evolution process?

Evolution only deals with real organisms. Not with mythical creatures.

 

[AV1611VET]

Besides, as a general rule for you, the intellectual traps you might set tend to rely on people not answering your questions directly and concisely.

You carry yourself well verbally.

 

[AV1611VET]

What angels?

Lucifer, Gabriel, Michael, for three.

 

[AV1611VET]

Evolution only deals with real organisms. Not with mythical creatures.

Really?

 

[Armoured]

Well, maybe El Presidente can make evolution illegal and pas Creationism as truth by law

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, maybe El Presidente can make evolution illegal and pas Creationism as truth by law

My wife made a good point.

We now have a Republican president, a Republican Senate and a Republican House.

Perhaps God is giving this country one last chance for a revival.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Really?

Yes. That's news to you?

 

[Armoured]

My wife made a good point.

We now have a Republican president, a Republican Senate and a Republican House.

Perhaps God is giving this country one last chance for a revival.

And perhaps it's just what happens when a major political party tries to utilise the power of disaffected lower-middle class voters and it backfires hideously

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

No more unfounded that your nonsense.

Except for all the evidence in support of the ToE that leads me to accept it.

And why or why not there is bias is not something I'm arguing. You have your reasons I have mine. I replied to his comments on that but I still think it takes us in a direction that skirts the subject.

But this comes back to intellectual honesty, so it's relevant. I'm biased against positions that are unsupported (and especially contradicted) by the evidence. Of course, it's a bias, not a wholesale dismissal. My bias is also proportional to the claim. If you say you have a ped dog called Rover, I really wouldn't have an issue accepting that given this happens quite often. On the other hand, claiming a magical eternal being created us & the universe 6,000 years ago & then went waaaaay out of his way to make it look like we evolved over billions of years will require more justification before I can accept it. If there's evidence, then it gets considered. Easy.

So, what's your bias, btw? I'm interested to know.

 

[Kenny'sID]

But this comes back to intellectual honesty, so it's relevant. I'm biased against positions that are unsupported (and especially contradicted) by the evidence. Of course, it's a bias, not a wholesale dismissal. My bias is also proportional to the claim. If you say you have a ped dog called Rover, I really wouldn't have an issue accepting that given this happens quite often. On the other hand, claiming a magical eternal being created us & the universe 6,000 years ago & then went waaaaay out of his way to make it look like we evolved over billions of years will require more justification before I can accept it. If there's evidence, then it gets considered. Easy.

So somehow the magical "all the sudden the universe decided to create itself and here we are" is not more ridiculous than someone creating it? I have to disagree.

So, what's your bias, btw? I'm interested to know.

"All the sudden the universe decided to create itself and here we are" ...very biased against that.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

So somehow the magical "all the sudden the universe decided to create itself and here we are" is not more ridiculous than someone creating it? I have to disagree.

"All the sudden the universe decided to create itself and here we are" ...very biased against that.

Why isn't "I Don't Know" a valid response? are you biased against that?

That said, Let's go with your version of biased for a second... Where did this "someone" come from? Where was this "someone" standing? what was this "someone" wearing? How does this "someone" live/exist before creating this universe? Exactly how did this "someone" go about creating the universe, was there source material? So many more unanswerable questions are created by this classical non-answer...

Also, you didn't answer my question, What's your bias? I'm interested to know still.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Why isn't "I Don't Know" a valid response? are you biased against that?

I don't know... I don't recall saying it was not. It simply makes more sense to me that the creator I believe in because he makes more sense than any alternative, that he would give us some answers, just as he did, so we do know. If one doesn't believe in him or his answers, then you won't know, ot I can only assume you don't if you say so. All this is simple logic, and seem to me like discussing why one plus one equals 2, but if it does you some good...ok.

That said, Let's go with your version of biased for a second... Where did this "someone" come from? Where was this "someone" standing? what was this "someone" wearing? How does this "someone" live/exist before creating this universe? So many more unanswerable questions are created by this classical non-answer...

I accept the Biblical "he always was". The rest of those things, I don't recall them answered in the bible, but maybe. Again, if you have any knowledge of the bible, you really don't need to ask me these things so, not sure what the point is?

Also, you didn't answer my question, What's your bias? I'm interested to know still.

Sure I did....you should easily be able to figure them all out from my answer, or even without it.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

I don't know... I don't recall saying it was not. It simply makes more sense to me that the creator I believe in because he makes more sense than any alternative, that he would give us some answers, just as he did, so we do know. If one doesn't believe in him or his answers, then you won't know, ot I can only assume you don't if you say so. All this is simple logic, and seem to me like discussing why one plus one equals 2, but if it does you some good...ok.

It does me some good - I'm not American, so talking to Adults that believe in a 6-10k year old earth, YHWH/Allah/Jehova believers & believers of other similarly wildly inaccurate & demonstrably false beliefs is predominantly an American culture phenomenon among the civilized nations. I find it entertaining & concerning all at the same time, especially now Trump is loading your Government end-to-end with creationists and science deniers... that Definitely doesn't happen to that extent anywhere else in the civilized world, spare Turkey & the Middle East of course... I guess what I really want to know is the concept of compartmentalization that's engaged & how you get by in life - for example, your not accepting Evolution because of your religious belief make your religious beliefs true? or let's put it another way, if I were hit by a bus & killed, but your religious belief denies that it could happen, would that mean I didn't get hit by a bus & I'm not dead? Are these two versions of "reality" possible at the same time?

I accept the Biblical "he always was". The rest of those things, I don't recall them answered in the bible, but maybe. Again, if you have any knowledge of the bible, you really don't need to ask me these things so, not sure what the point is?

Well, why wouldn't you just save a dirty great big step & say the Universe "always was"? I struggle to understand how the religious just discard reality in favour of vague and plainly incorrect (sometimes contradictory) stories written thousands of years ago by people who knew nothing about our universe & actual history?

Sure I did....you should easily be able to figure them all out from my answer, or even without it.

Broadly, yes of course, but given the variety of mutually exclusive beliefs held by the US Population, I prefer to ask you about your position than to assume it to be like everyone else's. I want to ask you questions about your bias that are accurate, rather than what my imagination could put on the table. For example, are you a YEC? Day/Era Creationists? ID'er? Theistic Evolutionist? & what particular version of any of these are you?

 

[Kenny'sID]

It does me some good - I'm not American, so talking to Adults that believe in a 6-10k year old earth, YHWH/Allah/Jehova believers & believers of other similarly wildly inaccurate & demonstrably false beliefs is predominantly an American culture phenomenon among the civilized nations. I find it entertaining & concerning all at the same time, especially now Trump is loading your Government end-to-end with creationists and science deniers... that Definitely doesn't happen to that extent anywhere else in the civilized world, spare Turkey & the Middle East of course... I guess what I really want to know is the concept of compartmentalization that's engaged & how you get by in life - for example, your not accepting Evolution because of your religious belief make your religious beliefs true? or let's put it another way, if I were hit by a bus & killed, but your religious belief denies that it could happen, would that mean I didn't get hit by a bus & I'm not dead? Are these two versions of "reality" possible at the same time?

I get the idea that all you are doing is trying to get me not to believe, but you should know that isn't going to happen. I've already told you why I think my beliefs are far from ridiculous as opposed to the alternative, yet you keep telling me they are, what's the point? do you think saying it over and over will change a thing?

Can't be about much more than you trying to kill my faith, so let's cut to the chase, why do you want to do that? You don't act like you are concerned for my well being, as my beliefs can't hurt me at all, and can only do me good whether true or not. It's an oddity to me why you are even here so that's the only sense I can make of it, yet even that makes no sense.

Does it help you feel less insecure with your own lack of beliefs if you can think in your mind that you have stumped others with your questions? And why so insecure to begin with? I mean if you are settled with your beliefs, then go believe them....live and let live, but I don't think you are, not even close, at least that's what your actions seem to suggest..

On my position, it's like many others because we all believe in the same bible. Once again, a simple concept you shouldn't even have to ask. Do you just like hearing me say what you know I'm going to say so you can say I'm wrong...again?

 

[AV1611VET]

Where did this "someone" come from?

This 'someone' ... (won't say His name, will you?) ... is self-existent.

where was this "someone" standing?

Wherever He wanted to stand.

what was this "someone" wearing?

Whatever He wanted to wear.

How does this "someone" live/exist before creating this universe?

I don't know.

Exactly how did this "someone" go about creating the universe,

By speaking it into existence ex nihilo.

was there source material?

No.

So many more unanswerable questions are created by this classical non-answer...

Then ask them.

Let's see how much you don't know, and I'll do my best to assist you.

What's your bias?

I'm a Christian by election and a Baptist by conviction.

 

[Speedwell]

On my position, it's like many others because we all believe in the same bible. Once again, a simple concept you shouldn't even have to ask.

Don't take that too much for granted. What you believe about the Bible is considered strange even by the (non-YEC) Christian community and absolutely bizarre by everyone else.

Do you just like hearing me say what you know I'm going to say so you can say I'm wrong...again?

You are wrong. I don't say that about your own personal religious beliefs, which I would never try to talk you out of.
But you really are wrong about science and what it claims. Whether the theory of evolution is right or wrong, you really ought to know what it says. This is a serious problem for Creationists in general and much of their negative image is attributable to it. It's as if I were to come to your church and say, "Christianity is a stupid religion because it claims Jesus was an Olympic figure skater and we're all going to heaven on ice skates." Trying to talk you out of your false beliefs about the theory of evolution is not the same as trying to talk you out of your own religious beliefs.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's as if I were to come to your church and say,

That won't happen.

Instead, they'll send the government to remove the Bible and prayer from our schools and fill the void with witchcraft and New Age philosophy, remove the Ten Commandments from public property, and attempt to remove IN GOD WE TRUST from our coins, and ONE NATION UNDER GOD from our pledge.

Just for starters.