Dates - not the fruit

[Gadarene]

Lol
Words that are thrown around entirely too lightly these days by sjws...

Power
Marginalized
Violence
Identity
Oppression

....and probably others I can't think of atm.

......yeah. You do know I'm basically just trying to work Bane quotes into a dating scenario, right?

 

[Ana the Ist]

......yeah. You do know I'm basically just trying to work Bane quotes into a dating scenario, right?

Yeah it was real clever...Bane as an sjw. It makes sense since he kept that girl from getting raped all that time. It's layers upon layers.

 

[Uber Genius]

But apparently some men think they are superior to women.

I feel weird that I grew up thinking boys where people like me.

(Points of consideration: lesbians, gay men, and women asking men out).

Firstly, if that is your photo in the avatar section to the left, you need to learn this quickly because your dance card should be completely full.

Secondly, the descriptors you've attached (see quotes above) are framing these situations incorrectly. Men don't hold doors for women because they think women are helpless. Neither do they buy food because they think, "they are superior to women." These false frames are products of a propaganda campaign in the 1960s and 1970s. (Not a critique on the real issues of inequality, just the Gloria Steinem version).

Men want to get off to a great start not a terrible one. Especially when out with a beautiful woman, where they think they are "dating up," so to speak. Showing deference and respect are ways of inferiority, not superiority. When we had such things as servants in western culture they would...hold doors, and escort their masters. Men have taken over, the good ones that is, this servant mentality. Further it has been a cultural norm for hundreds of years in the West and didn't start changing until the early 1980s.

Don't buck it or reframe it, enjoy the free food, deference and respect it confers!

 

[Paradoxum]

You're not supposed to say that out loud, you know. I am comfortable with being robbed and economically abused, but I expect to be given the right to imagine that it's not a trade deal.

Sorry bby, pay me to date. Women are better than men. This dangerous ground.

Uhhh, how about a reindeer? We have more of those over here in north.

I want deer. I don't even eat deer, but still. Please make a meaningless statement. Pls.

 

[Paradoxum]

I love baked beans on my hot dogs. My cousin excepts these expensive meals. She ends up with A holes. I rather skip that.

I'm allergic to beans so...

 

[Paradoxum]

I always considered paying for the date as a matter of "her getting something out of it". After all, I'm going to try and have sex with her...and if she has to put up with that, she should at least get a free meal out of it.

I'm guessing you're joking?

But if she doesn't want sex, then what's going on?

 

[Paradoxum]

The guy should pay - for all of it. With no expectation of anything in return.

And no Ana - sex while dating should NEVER be expected. That is reserved for after you get married.

Ok, why?

 

[Paradoxum]

1. The person asking should be prepared to pay.

The problem I get with that is that it seems to assume the person being asked doesn't want to go. You wouldn't assume that with a friend.

Generally, if I go on a date I like them in some sense. So, why would they pay for me to be where I want to be?

 

[Paradoxum]

Poor girl, dating wimps who need spears. My dates receive the thrill of watching me subdue and strangle a deer to death with my bare hands. Occasionally a rabbit or squirrel too.

Better be a bear or no deal.

 

[Paradoxum]

What the heck are you talking about? There are plenty of feminist who are totally about equality of the genders up until it comes time to pay the bill for a date.

I'm a feminist until it goes authoritarian and oppressive. My turning point was feminists opposing pornography and prostitution (I'm not saying it's all good). That's tell women what to do, just like men previously. Your body is yours, and take pay as you wish. It's basically a super massage.

I've seen women laugh at men having their penis cut off. I've cried... that's horrific. Imagine if women had their genitals or breasts cut off... no one would laugh. How is that no absolutely vile?

They think they should be entitled to a mans money because they are women. How is that really all that different?

I don't get it. My parents are conservative Christians, and they brought me up as equal to guys. I feel like I live in a different world from those that use guys.

To answer your overall question: You could behave as an adult and talk about it with your date before the bill comes. Being able to have potentially uncomfortable conversations like this and not spazzing out will tell you if your date is a child or an adult and how fast you should run from EVER dating them again if they spaz.

My dates have generally ended up in saying "So split the bill?", with obvious freedom either way for minor payments. If someone wants to pay for me, fine. But I don't assume it, and I want to try to pay. I want to be there.

 

[Armoured]

How many people think men should pay for the first date? Or dates in general?

I genuinely didn't know this was an issue till recently. Apparently I've been living under a rock and so was very much astonished.

I assumed if you eat something you pay for it... because real life?

But apparently some men think they are superior to women. I meant some woman think their dates SHOULD be paid for by men, that's different.

Is this a general rule I should remember? I feel weird that I grew up thinking boys where people like me.

(Points of consideration: lesbians, gay men, and women asking men out).

My understanding is this is a holdover from back in the days when men made more money than women as a matter of course.

I've been dating for some 25 years at this point, and the only time I've not "gone Dutch" is if the lady or I specifically offered to buy the other a meal for whatever reason beforehand. And such times were very much the exception, rather than the rule.

I think it's fine for a man to offer to pay if he's trying to be a gentleman, but if he does, and the lady says she wants to pay for herself, it would be silly to take offence or feel one's manhood was somehow impugned. And vice versa, obviously.

 

[Armoured]

Poor girl, dating wimps who need spears. My dates receive the thrill of watching me subdue and strangle a deer to death with my bare hands. Occasionally a rabbit or squirrel too.

As I said to my wife when she complimented me on some furniture repair a week or so ago;

"Me man! Me kill mammoth! Hit with rock!"

 

[Dave-W]

Ok, why?

Why what?

Why does the guy pay?
Or why should there be no sex?

 

[Kenny'sID]

If you like the guy let him pay if he wants to, and don't make a big deal out of it.

 

[Tinker Grey]

The problem I get with that is that it seems to assume the person being asked doesn't want to go. You wouldn't assume that with a friend.

Generally, if I go on a date I like them in some sense. So, why would they pay for me to be where I want to be?

Maybe it's in the presentation. I don't know why "My treat!" would be taken as an assumption of disinterest. Besides I think a first date where the parties understand it is a first date is a little different than an established pattern.

ETA: Being "prepared to pay" isn't an assumption; it's a preparation that the ask-ee may expect this arrangement.

 

[Dave-W]

The problem I get with that is that it seems to assume the person being asked doesn't want to go. You wouldn't assume that with a friend.

Us guys have to start from that position. We may spend weeks or months trying to get everything right to elicit a positive response. (and it is why a "no" can be devastating)

Generally, if I go on a date I like them in some sense. So, why would they pay for me to be where I want to be?

Because they asked.

Why would you invite someone and then expect them to come up with $$ for an activity they otherwise would not be paying for?

 

[Chesterton]

Better be a bear or no deal.

Well at that point I become an ardent feminist, so I'll insist that you subdue the bear for us, while I run pick up something from Taco Bell just in case that doesn't work out.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm guessing you're joking?

Kinda?

But if she doesn't want sex, then what's going on?

Well that's her loss then.

 

[TerranceL]

My dates have generally ended up in saying "So split the bill?", with obvious freedom either way for minor payments. If someone wants to pay for me, fine. But I don't assume it, and I want to try to pay. I want to be there.

That's great, it's the people who can't even bring themselves to bring up the issue that are going to have problems.

I mean... seriously there are much more important issues in a relationship than who pays or how the bill is split if someone can't have that talk they are a lost cause.

 

[TerranceL]

But if she doesn't want sex, then what's going on?

Well that's her loss then.

She'll have missed out on the best 3 minutes and 14 seconds of her life?

BA DUM TISS!

I'll let myself out.