To whom and why God gave the Sabbaths?

[bugkiller]

This is my last post to you. You might go look up the word for rested in Genesis 2:2. It is Shabbat with a prefix.... but you knew that, you read Hebrew, right?

I already know that he word "rested" means to cease from my study. But just for you the word is "shabath a verb and means -


to cease, desist, rest

1. (Qal)
   1. to cease
      
      
   2. to rest, desist (from labour)
      
   • (Niphal) to cease
   • (Hiphil)
     1. to cause to cease, put an end to
        
        
     2. to exterminate, destroy
        
        
     3. to cause to desist from

This definition backs up the word "ended" also found in Gen 2:2. Where is the Sscripture and explanation in any of your posts?

Now you said something about pride and indicated disrespect. I backed up what I said.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

A sword is sharpened when the edge is rubbed firmly against another edge. It is damaged when it is used in a sword fight. You want to fight, you want to beat your chest, you want the world you see how smart you think you are as you hide behind a screen name, BUG. I am blocking you now not because I don't have the resources to engage and debate, but because I realize there will be no one edified in the process. This will turn, is turning, into a theological urinating match that causes division, which is something God HATES. (Prov. 6:16-19)

When you get to a point where you can have the discussion, Google me, you'll find me. Until then, be blessed and have a great life.

So where is your Scripture? All I saw was commentary or a lose paraphrase with no reference. You have the opportunity to show how ignorant I am. Why not put me in my place?

Sorry that you think I am hiding by using a moniker. The wise do it and is the norm here. You have the same access to Bible study aids I do. There are some great free sites on the net. And yes I also have hard copies of some great aids. There is no excuse.

bugkiller

 

[BABerean2]

I would worry about keeping what God actually said before trying
to keep what the Rabbis or other men say. The not driving cars thing
is ridiculous, along with some of the other traditions, like not turning
lights on or off, or pushing buttons on an elevator.

Exo_35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.


The children of Israel did not have the opportunity to decide what was ridiculous.

Not following the commandment to the letter resulted in stoning.


Num 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

Num 15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

Num 15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.

Num 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

Num 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.


.

 

[Bob S]

Same, gather as you are convicted. Just throwing this in and will then let is drop.

Let it drop? You get your say and I don't have any chance for rebuttal?

If Yeshua is your rest, then why are you still decaying, dying, exposed to sin, tempted?

You would really ask that? Jesus saves us from the second death. Jesus never ever has shielded mankind from temptation.

Don't get me wrong, we are children of God, but if the wages of sin is death, and we still die, then what he earned the right to do at Calvary has not been applied yet.

maybe you should restudy your thoughts. When I accepted Jesus as my Savior I started my journey into everlasting life. Jude 1:
24 Now all glory to God, who is able to keep you from falling away and will bring you with great joy into his glorious presence without a single fault. 25 All glory to him who alone is God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord. All glory, majesty, power, and authority are his before all time, and in the present, and beyond all time! Amen.

I truly believe that Jesus at this moment is sustaining me and keeping me until that day when He calls us home.

That us why 2 Cor. 1:22 and 5:5 call the giving of the Holy Spirit a down payment. That indicates God is planning on giving us much more.

Amen!

 

[Bob S]

Not in the least....

I find that very difficult to believe. I am sure you are not calloused and do not reflect on how you have lived up to the commands of Israel's Sabbath. When I found out that Jesus never asked that I obey the Sabbath command given only to Israel I rejoiced. My ignorance of Jesus' messages to all Christians found in the New Testament of the Holy Writ kept me in bondage for many years. I have always been free, free in Christ, I just was too caught up in what someone said instead of searching the real truth.

Yeshua didn't give his life so that we don't obey God. He is Lord, we live by His rules, not ours. That said, just throwing another thing out to consider....

The problem you and all Sabbath enthusiasts have is your decision as to what are the rules. John the apostle tells us the rules are ass follows: This is how we KNOW we belong to the truth........believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. 1Jn3. You would tell us the rules are keeping the Torah which were the laws given to Israel. Laws given only to Israel. Why would I, a Christian, need to follow laws designed for Israel which is now a defunct nation?

You probably look at Matthew 5:17 as a verse that states the end of the law. However, that common mainstream interpretation actually forces that verse to contradict itself. It says, "I did not come to do away with the Law I came to fulfill it." If "fulfill it" means it has been done away with, which is how many churches teach the verse, then, "I have not come to do away with the law but rather to fulfill it" is being taught as, "I have not come to do away with but rather do away with."

The word in Greek can be translated as fulfill but not as in bring an end to.... rather, to DO IT THE WAY IT WAS INTENDED. In other words, Yeshua came and walked out God's instructions not only perfectly, but as the model God expects all His people to follow. He is our model, we follow him... but we don't do what he did?

That is odd, I looked at the Dictionary and your "do it the way it was intended" is not one of the descriptions for fulfil. What we do see is "bring to an end". Some Bibles use the word "accomplish" and if you look up the meaning of accomplish you will find the same explanation as below.

1. to carry out, or bring to realization, as a prophecy or promise.

2. to perform or do, as duty; obey or follow, as commands.

3. to satisfy (requirements, obligations, etc.):
a book that fulfills a long-felt need.

4. to bring to an end; finish or complete, as a period of time:
He felt that life was over when one had fulfilled his threescore years and ten.

5. to develop the full potential of (usually used reflexively):
She realized that she could never fulfill herself in such work.

What is troubling with your explanation is that Paul does not agree with you and neither does John. Paul plainly stated that the 10 commandments were temporary 2Cor 3:7-11 and John wrote that the Christians obligation to God is to believe in Jesus and love our fellow man. These verses are in direct opposition to your theory.

 

[pat34lee]

Didn't misrepresent anything. The fact that something specific is mentioned has no bearing on the truth. For instance take a vehicle. It is not mentioned in the law. Correct? But I ask you what does a vehicle do? Does it not replace the beast of burden for example? IOW if you didn't have a vehicle how would you transport your stuff? All the lawyers I know avoid the law in this way. Funny thing is a vehicle was a beast for my SDA neighbor when he hired me to get it out of the ditch on the Sabbath after I advised him to stay at home during inclement weather the night before. It was a vehicle when transporting him to Sabbath worship and became a beast when in the ditch. He violated the 4th commandment on more than one count.

bugkiller

When did your vehicle last eat, sleep, get sick or give birth? Never?
No, because it is a machine, not a living being. Getting a beast out
of a ditch is not violating Sabbath, anyway. Neither is working in the
temple, though it is actual work, which is forbidden.

As I said, I would worry about keeping what God actually said before trying
to keep what the Rabbis or other men say.

 

[pat34lee]

I am very curious, have you checked what the original language actually says? If it is the same thing why does Moses use different words? In Gen Moses says 7th day and in Ex Moses says Sabbath.

bugkiller

As someone told you earlier, look them up in Hebrew.
Sabbath or Shabbat means 7th day.

Different English words are used for clarification or context.

 

[pat34lee]

Exo_35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.
The children of Israel did not have the opportunity to decide what was ridiculous.

Do you think God would have considered pushing a button to be work?
Or turning a key to be lighting a fire? They were being trained to trust
God, not to nitpick his commands and use them against others.

 

[Bob S]

Do you think God would have considered pushing a button to be work?
Or turning a key to be lighting a fire? They were being trained to trust
God, not to nitpick his commands and use them against others.

Picking up sticks was not a big deal either. It was the intent of the person.
Do you do your own pleasure on the Holy day of now defunct Israel? Do you speak words that are not of a Holy nature on the now defunct Sabbath? Sure you do. No one "keeps Sabbath like God intended it to be kept. Why would Isaiah write the following admonition if Israel was living up to the standards form God?
Isaiah 58:13
If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

And to think, all the trying you do doesn't put one feather in your cap. 2Cor 3:7-11 tells us the 10 commandments were temporary laws. They ended at the Cross when the new covenant was ushered in, ratified by Jesus blood and is the covenant we will follow until Jesus comes in the clouds of Glory.

 

[Bob S]

 

[pat34lee]

I find that very difficult to believe. I am sure you are not calloused and do not reflect on how you have lived up to the commands of Israel's Sabbath. When I found out that Jesus never asked that I obey the Sabbath command given only to Israel I rejoiced.

How someone who claims to love God can rejoice when his laws are set aside is a
wonder to me. (1 John 5:3) God didn't set aside his laws. I have read the NT and
there is no law abrogating the whole Torah, because God would not allow it.
Remember at the time of 1 John, there was no NT, only Torah and the OT.

So who did?

What would you call someone who says one thing, changes it, then changes back?
A liar? Mentally unstable? Do you know that law-breaking theology makes that of God?
At best, it has him giving different laws to two groups when he forbade Israel from doing
that to other people. Do we serve a God with two sets of weights and measures? In
other words, a conman or swindler?

See Isaiah 56:1-8 for the future, where those who keep law and Sabbath are honored.
By contrast, those who don't will be destroyed as being lawless, or unrepentant sinners.

Zechariah 14:16-18

Also Isaiah 66:16-17.
If we can now eat anything, why call swine's flesh an abomination and destroy those
eating it? Remember, this is future, and not only Israel. v. 18 mentions all nations.

 

[pat34lee]

And to think, all the trying you do doesn't put one feather in your cap. 2Cor 3:7-11 tells us the 10 commandments were temporary laws. They ended at the Cross when the new covenant was ushered in, ratified by Jesus blood and is the covenant we will follow until Jesus comes in the clouds of Glory.

You are looking at this from the wrong end. We keep the law
because we are saved and want to please God, not to seek
favor or salvation. If we have no desire to please him rather
than ourselves, then I would be worried. Israel's problem in
Isaiah was that they took God for granted, and treated him
like a beggar instead of their king, offering lame and blind
sacrifices; things they would not eat, much less offer as
spotless holy offerings.

Two things about the new covenant.
1. It isn't in operation yet, otherwise the laws would be written
on your heart and there wouldn't be a question of whether they
were set aside.
2. Till heaven and earth pass and ALL be fulfilled. Funny how people
dismiss both conditions. Heaven and earth both in place, and many
prophecies concerning Yeshua still to be fulfilled.

Not that it would matter, because if you aren't joined to Israel through
adoption, which means UNDER THE LAW, we have no part of any of the
covenants, because none were made with lawless gentiles.

 

[Bob S]

How someone who claims to love God can rejoice when his laws are set aside is a
wonder to me. (1 John 5:3) God didn't set aside his laws. I have read the NT and
there is no law abrogating the whole Torah, because God would not allow it.
Remember at the time of 1 John, there was no NT, only Torah and the OT.

I rejoice in the new covenant. A better covenant with better promises.

God gave the Torah to Israel, period. He didn't give it to any other nation so why do you believe He gave it to you? Jesus gave Christians the law of love found in the new testament in 1Jn 3:19-24. The Torah has been set aside because there in no nation of Israel of the Old Testament and Messiah has come proclaiming a new priesthood and when there is a new priesthood there are also new laws.

Why would any thinking person feel the need to dig up laws that have ended with Jesus and believe they can keep them any better that Israel did?

So who did?

sorry I have no idea what your thought is.

What would you call someone who says one thing, changes it, then changes back?
A liar? Mentally unstable? Do you know that law-breaking theology makes that of God?
At best, it has him giving different laws to two groups when he forbade Israel from doing
that to other people. Do we serve a God with two sets of weights and measures? In
other words, a conman or swindler?

Did God give Adam the Torah? Did He give Noah Torah, how about Abraham. Yep, God did change His laws for certain people throughout the ages. Your theory is full of holes.

See Isaiah 56:1-8 for the future, where those who keep law and Sabbath are honored.
By contrast, those who don't will be destroyed as being lawless, or unrepentant sinners.

Of course they were to keep Sabbath because they were under Sabbath law. Christians are under Grace and the Sabbath is now a mere shadow from a defunct Torah which was given to a now defunct nation.

Zechariah 14:16-18

Also Isaiah 66:16-17.
If we can now eat anything, why call swine's flesh an abomination and destroy those
eating it? Remember, this is future, and not only Israel. v. 18 mentions all nations.

Another part of the now defunct nation of Israel which gentiles were never ever under. Jesus even is quoted as saying it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles it is what comes out. Love your fellow man, that is what pleases Jesus not observing ritual days meant for only one nation that is now defunct.

 

[Bob S]

You are looking at this from the wrong end. We keep the law
because we are saved and want to please God, not to seek
favor or salvation. If we have no desire to please him rather
than ourselves, then I would be worried. Israel's problem in
Isaiah was that they took God for granted, and treated him
like a beggar instead of their king, offering lame and blind
sacrifices; things they would not eat, much less offer as
spotless holy offerings.

Do you know what really pleases Jesus? Well, it is not trying to observe ritual laws given only to Israel. Jesus is quoted as saying:
Matthew 25:40
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ That is our mission and what brings joy and reward. Love, love and more love.

Two things about the new covenant.
1. It isn't in operation yet, otherwise the laws would be written
on your heart and there wouldn't be a question of whether they
were set aside.
2. Till heaven and earth pass and ALL be fulfilled. Funny how people
dismiss both conditions. Heaven and earth both in place, and many
prophecies concerning Yeshua still to be fulfilled.

Funny you cannot accept that Jesus fulfilled the Torah. He didn't tell us He would be fulfilling everything. It amazes me that you cannot understand that Heaven and earth passing is an expression not reality. If you believe Jesus didn't fulfill Torah then not one jot nor one tittle can pass from Torah. You are obligated to observe ever jot of the 613 laws. You had better get started rebuilding the Temple and finding some Levites for the Priesthood. Doesn't that sound stupid even to you?

Not that it would matter, because if you aren't joined to Israel through
adoption, which means UNDER THE LAW, we have no part of any of the
covenants, because none were made with lawless gentiles.

That has to be the most over used false statement. The only place you could have learned this is from your peers and hierarchy of the Messianic movement. It just is not the truth. Israel is defunct. There is no more promised land and an Israelite nation with a temple and Levite priesthood. No sacrificing animals and no tithing system to sustain the priesthood.

We are all, Jew and Gentile, grafted into the living Jesus.

 

[bugkiller]

When did your vehicle last eat, sleep, get sick or give birth? Never?
No, because it is a machine, not a living being. Getting a beast out
of a ditch is not violating Sabbath, anyway. Neither is working in the
temple, though it is actual work, which is forbidden.

As I said, I would worry about keeping what God actually said before trying
to keep what the Rabbis or other men say.

My vehicle has been sleeping for 2 days currently. It last ate when I drove it to town. It got its last medicine about 4500 miles ago. Pretty cheap for what it does.

You did not hear /understand a word I said.

I said my SDA neighbor said his vehicle was a beast (ox to be exact) when it was in the ditch on the Sabbath. Therefore he could justify breaking the law to retrieve it.

According to the law my neighbor sinned when he hired me to work on the Sabbath. My neighbor sinned when he retrieved his vehicle on the Sabbath.
My neighbor sinned when he hired and paid to have his vehicle pulled out of the ditch on the Sabbath. My neighbor sinned when he rode his beast vehicle home on the Sabbath. Oh yeah his ox was working on the Sabbath and is the reason it got in the ditch.

I point you to -


8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

As someone told you earlier, look them up in Hebrew.
Sabbath or Shabbat means 7th day.

Different English words are used for clarification or context.

No shabath is a verb and shabbath is a noun. I will look to see if I had to many "b" in my post.
edit to add - I spelled it correctly. You seem to have a reading problem.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

How someone who claims to love God can rejoice when his laws are set aside is a
wonder to me. (1 John 5:3) God didn't set aside his laws. I have read the NT and
there is no law abrogating the whole Torah, because God would not allow it.
Remember at the time of 1 John, there was no NT, only Torah and the OT.

So who did?

What would you call someone who says one thing, changes it, then changes back?
A liar? Mentally unstable? Do you know that law-breaking theology makes that of God?
At best, it has him giving different laws to two groups when he forbade Israel from doing
that to other people. Do we serve a God with two sets of weights and measures? In
other words, a conman or swindler?

See Isaiah 56:1-8 for the future, where those who keep law and Sabbath are honored.
By contrast, those who don't will be destroyed as being lawless, or unrepentant sinners.

Zechariah 14:16-18

Also Isaiah 66:16-17.
If we can now eat anything, why call swine's flesh an abomination and destroy those
eating it? Remember, this is future, and not only Israel. v. 18 mentions all nations.

Your logic is more than I can bear.


bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You are looking at this from the wrong end. We keep the law
because we are saved and want to please God, not to seek
favor or salvation. If we have no desire to please him rather
than ourselves, then I would be worried. Israel's problem in
Isaiah was that they took God for granted, and treated him
like a beggar instead of their king, offering lame and blind
sacrifices; things they would not eat, much less offer as
spotless holy offerings.

Two things about the new covenant.
1. It isn't in operation yet, otherwise the laws would be written
on your heart and there wouldn't be a question of whether they
were set aside.
2. Till heaven and earth pass and ALL be fulfilled. Funny how people
dismiss both conditions. Heaven and earth both in place, and many
prophecies concerning Yeshua still to be fulfilled.

Not that it would matter, because if you aren't joined to Israel through
adoption, which means UNDER THE LAW, we have no part of any of the
covenants, because none were made with lawless gentiles.

IS Jesus your priest? Yes or no is all I need. IF you say yes, you violate your idea of Mat 5:17-18. If you say no you deny Jesus is your Savior.

Heads I win, tails you lose.

bugkiller

 

[Ken Rank]

I rejoice in the new covenant. A better covenant with better promises.

Bob, I decided not to spend much time on your other replies because you do misunderstood what I said, to try to unravel it is probably not something you want to sit through. So I decided to try one more time with this comment, something simple and small and if we have something of a discussion from it, great and if not we'll just part brothers. So... I have two points...

1. Yeshua said, "I have not been sent BUT to the lost sheep of the Israel." He also said, "my sheep hear my voice." Now, you can in faith, you heard his voice, and he was only sent (by his OWN WORDS) to the lost sheep of ISRAEL. My question is, who do you think you are? A gentile? No... when the word "gentile" was first used in the English language as a translation for ethnos, the definition was, "a pagan, a heathen, anyone who is not a Jew OR a Christian." (Source - Webster's 1828) The MODERN definition of a gentile is, "any believer who is not Jewish." You are not a gentile, forcing the modern definition onto gentile and applying it to us takes away from the context of Scripture. Ethnos means nations, pagan, heathen, anyone who is not Israel. Messiah said he had not been sent BUT to the Lost Sheep of Israel... and you will not find the word "gentile" attached to the word covenant....i.e. "covenant with the gentiles." The covenant you quote above says, "House of Judah (the Jews) and the House of Israel." Southern Kingdom and Northern Kingdom....

And finally, the new Jerusalem... it has no gate of the gentiles. 12 gates, 12 tribes of Israel. Again, who do you think you are?

2. The word for "new" covenant does not mean new.

There are two words in Greek translated as new. The first is Kainos and the second is nehos. Here is the Strong's entry for Kainos:

G2537 -
kahee-nos'
Of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G3501 is properly so with respect to age): - new.

So kainos is "new especially in freshness." G3501, nehos, is new in respect to AGE, i.e. brand new. The "new covenant" is kainos, new in freshness, renewed. Remember, God made an "everlasting covenant" (Psalm 105:8-10) and everlasting means everlasting. So it would make sense contextually, that this is that covenant renewed. But, we need a second witness, right? Well, Hebrews 8:8-11 is Jeremiah 31:31-34 being quoted word for word. The word for "new" in new covenant in Jeremiah is chadashah (H2319) which is the adjective form of the verb chadash (H2318) which means "to renew." If you don't believe me, look it up yourself.

What makes it better Bob? That should be the question! And the answer is... "that which was on stone is being moved to the heart." The mark of the "new covenant" is that the law is being written on the mind and heart. What law? The law that was on stone... the one Christians teach is done away with. This is why Ezekiel 11:19 said that God will replace the stony heart and replace with a heart of flesh. This is why Deut. 30:1-6 promises Israel being cut off, brought back in, and having their heart circumcised. Read it... Paul writes of the circumcision of the heart... this isn't a new thing, he is quoting Deut. 30.

We'll see where this goes. Blessings.

 

[tall73]

But, we need a second witness, right? Well, Hebrews 8:8-11 is Jeremiah 31:31-34 being quoted word for word. The word for "new" in new covenant in Jeremiah is chadashah (H2319) which is the adjective form of the verb chadash (H2318) which means "to renew." If you don't believe me, look it up yourself.

Exo 1:8 Now there arose a new king over Egypt, who did not know Joseph.

Deu 22:8 "When you build a new house, you shall make a parapet for your roof, that you may not bring the guilt of blood upon your house, if anyone should fall from it.

Deu 24:5 When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.

Deu 32:17 They sacrificed to demons that were no gods, to gods they had never known, to new gods that had come recently, whom your fathers had never dreaded.

Jdg 15:13 They said to him, "No; we will only bind you and give you into their hands. We will surely not kill you." So they bound him with two new ropes and brought him up from the rock.

Jdg 16:11 And he said to her, "If they bind me with new ropes that have not been used, then I shall become weak and be like any other man."

1Sa 6:7 Now then, take and prepare a new cart and two milk cows on which there has never come a yoke, and yoke the cows to the cart, but take their calves home, away from them.

Jer 31:22 How long will you waver, O faithless daughter? For the LORD has created a new thing on the earth: a woman encircles a man."

Usage shows the concept of new, rather than just renewed.