Could we have an entire economy...

[grasping the after wind]

Except that was not true communism (as laid down by Marx and Engels). It was socialism.

Marx and Engels would have approved of that stage of development as they ceded the fact that it was a necessary step leading to true communism which of course they said just sort of happens all of a sudden.

 

[Dave-W]

Marx and Engels would have approved of that stage of development as they ceded the fact that it was a necessary step leading to true communism which of course they said just sort of happens all of a sudden.

Well, that is what Lenin said. Not so sure he was right .....

 

[grasping the after wind]

Well, that is what Lenin said. Not so sure he was right .....

I'm sure all three were very wrong about most things.

 

[Tull]

The millions who died under their ideology would agree

 

[Strivax]

We are in danger of verging on a false dichotomy, here. The situation is not not-for-profit economies and millions of deaths, versus capitalism and universal well-being. For a start, I am not advocating not-for-profit business models be imposed by the powers that be, only that they should be supported, as and when they are established, by the consumer. And, secondly, plenty of people die under capitalism, and not just by the actions of repressive far right regimes. Despite the fact the world's wealth is concentrated in the west, we are unwilling to share that wealth in any substantial way, and millions die annually from hunger and preventable disease in the developing world. It seems none of us deserve to escape harsh judgment at the end of days, be we communist, socialist, or liberal or conservative capitalist.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Tull]

The situation is not not-for-profit economies and millions of deaths, versus capitalism and universal well-being.

No,its about an imperfect world.

plenty of people die under capitalism

Plenty of people also start with nothing and become wealthy or middle class,or are just able to live a decent life.....capitalism also produces fat "poor" people with clothes and a roof over their head while the poor in other economic systems are skin and bone and living in trash dumps in rags.

Despite the fact the world's wealth is concentrated in the west, we are unwilling to share that wealth in any substantial way,

Can you think of a way to keep the money from falling into the hands of the dictators of those countries because that is where much of it goes.

and millions die annually from hunger and preventable disease in the developing world.

Millions die annualy in countries where the communist government will not allow the people to plant crops or where wars destroy crops,lets include all the reasons and not just some of them.

It seems none of us deserve to escape harsh judgment at the end of days, be we communist, socialist, or liberal or conservative capitalist.

Each person will be judged by what they do with what they had there is no "we"perhaps the reason some people are so concerned with what others are doing is they think they will give an account to God of what somebody else did,people also forget that wealth and poverty are relative terms,you may be wealthy compared to somebody else so all the scriptures about wealth would apply to you in regard to the "poor" around you,the widow and her two mites tells the whole story and few if any match that standard

 

[Tull]

. Despite the fact the world's wealth is concentrated in the west

There is a great deal of wealth in the east as well but it is in the hands of dictators and oil shieks who enslave their people with force,religion or both,its rarely spoken of since we all know all the worlds problems are the fault of the west.

 

[Strivax]

Can you think of a way to keep the money from falling into the hands of the dictators of those countries because that is where much of it goes.

This, of course, is the perennial excuse trotted out by those who just don't want to give. Any half-way determined would-be philanthropist can find a way to get vital funds to people who need them without any governments being involved at all. I can; therefore you can, if you only try hard enough.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Strivax]

There is a great deal of wealth in the east as well but it is in the hands of dictators and oil shieks who enslave their people with force,religion or both,its rarely spoken of since we all know all the worlds problems are the fault of the west.

Indeed there is wealth in the developing world, and it shames those who have it, while their countrymen starve. But, at least they don't pretend to be Christian, as we do.

Cheers, Strivax.

 

[Dave-W]

Any half-way determined would-be philanthropist can find a way to get vital funds to people who need them without any governments being involved at all. I can; therefore you can, if you only try hard enough.

OK - how do you suggest getting needed food and medical supplies into Aleppo Syria, or North Korea?

 

[Strivax]

OK - how do you suggest getting needed food and medical supplies into Aleppo Syria, or North Korea?

I can't do that. But the fact that I cannot do everything, and solve all the world's unfairnesses, does not mean I should do nothing. I do what I can, when I can. If everyone did the same, then, perhaps, all the world's unfairnesses would be solved.

Cheers, Strivax.

 

[Tull]

This, of course, is the perennial excuse trotted out by those who just don't want to give. Any half-way determined would-be philanthropist can find a way to get vital funds to people who need them without any governments being involved at all. I can; therefore you can, if you only try hard enough.

Best wishes, Strivax.

Yeah yeah,another big talker on the internet with all the answers,..dime a a dozen

 

[Tull]

I can't do that. But the fact that I cannot do everything, and solve all the world's unfairnesses, does not mean I
should do nothing. I do what I can, when I can. If everyone did the same, then, perhaps, all the world's unfairnesses would be solved.

Cheers, Strivax.

Then why not concern yourself with what you can do and ditch the holier than thou attitude

 

[Tull]

I wish all of the know it all big talkers on the internet would apply their genius and solve the worlds problems already

 

[Cute Tink]

 

[Chany]

Then why not concern yourself with what you can do and ditch the holier than thou attitude

Because this is the ethics and morality board of an internet forum and what Strivax is arguing is effectively Peter Singer's argument on world poverty: that, given the average western (particularly in wealthier countries like America) person's wealth and lifestyle versus our commonly held moral views and intuitions, we are all horrible people. It's completely legitimate to discuss what you ought to do regarding poverty and the unfair aspects of capitalism in a forum about what you ought to do.

 

[Tull]

Yes but no practical answers and solutions are given and the politics of the sitution is ignored along with other factors including the fact America is not a christian nation in any way,all done in an arrogant condescending and judgmental way....nothing but alot of talk.

We are in a post Christian era in the west and its foolish to think a culture that supports homosexuality,same sex marriage,abortion and every manner of vulgarity is supposed to concern its self with world poverty....only those who think charity is THE only aspect of Christianity needed to call yourself "Christian" and the one that is acceptable in the absence of any other believe world poverty would matter to them,ever heard of agenda 21 or agenda 2030.

The other factors are wars and dictators nobody seems to want to do anything about because they are politically useful,getting on the internet and complaining and pointing fingers in a self righteous way does not good,there are a lot of people who are doing the best they can.

 

[Strivax]

Yes but no practical answers and solutions are given ...

OK, here's a few practical solutions:

Deki
Send a cow
Tree Aid

These are UK charities, and local to me. But I am sure you can find suitable US alternatives, if that matters to you, if you look around.

Cheers, Strivax.

 

[Strivax]

Then why not concern yourself with what you can do and ditch the holier than thou attitude

Because solving the all world's problems is beyond the scope of any one lonely soul. That really is a challenge for the whole global population, every individual one of us, to address. And if we all do, we will succeed. If seeing absolute poverty as an injustice fundamental to most political problems, acting on that conviction, wanting all poverty eradicated, and encouraging everyone to play their part in that effort is holier-than-thou, well then, I happily plead guilty.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Dave-W]

I can't do that. But the fact that I cannot do everything, and solve all the world's unfairnesses, does not mean I should do nothing. I do what I can, when I can. If everyone did the same, then, perhaps, all the world's unfairnesses would be solved.

Except you will NEVER get "everyone" on board with this - maybe not even a majority of people. There will ALWAYS be a Kim Jung ill or a Sadam Hussein or a Hitler or a Nero to come down hard on everyone else.

Your system will encourage them to act out.