Trump nailed when said.......

[PeachyKeane]

Another mistake Clinton made was to denounce 'trickle down' economics, which revealed once again that she doesn't understand capitalism. Most economic activity starts at the top, with capital formation.

If the top earners are experiencing growth (which they are), then trickle down economics explains that the middle and lower class will experience growth as well. So, why does Trump need to promise to bring back minimum wage jobs for the middle and lower class? If you believe in trickle down economics, forcing companies to manufacture in the US is precisely the wrong thing to do. It will increase costs, which either cuts into profits, making it harder for those top earners to create jobs, or will raise the price of goods which will lower the value of the dollar.

So do you believe in trickle down economics or not?

 

[PeachyKeane]

So you don't think the flood of cheap foreign workers is hurting the economy? Curious.

Is it hurting the economy?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That's so old it has whiskers. Dis arm today dat arm tomorrow.

Ignorance is costing the US more money than anything else and religion is not a friend of the US.

Ignorance is a way of life that provides for a good economy as well. The only problem is the quality of that life. We can spend our money chasing crooks, or building a fine nation. We have chosen the former.

Unless that religion is based on a good understanding of the bible."....But for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened". In other words it is the presence of the church that is holding back certain catastrophe for the West (for whom the bible was written).

 

[wing2000]

The two things hurting our economy the most is cheap foreign labor, and loss of capital to the global economy.

And Trump has practiced both.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

If the top earners are experiencing growth (which they are), then trickle down economics explains that the middle and lower class will experience growth as well. So, why does Trump need to promise to bring back minimum wage jobs for the middle and lower class? If you believe in trickle down economics, forcing companies to manufacture in the US is precisely the wrong thing to do. It will increase costs, which either cuts into profits, making it harder for those top earners to create jobs, or will raise the price of goods which will lower the value of the dollar.

So do you believe in trickle down economics or not?

Trump wants to deport low wage illegals, and return good paying manufacturing jobs. High costs of goods support high wages, which supports a middle class lifestyle. We can't build the middle class on lower class wages and prices.

Good wages and benefits for domestic workers is the only proper way to build and share the wealth.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And Trump has practiced both.

Of course, and he admits that. He is just taking advantage of present laws, laws that he says must be changed if we are to straighten this thing out.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Is it hurting the economy?

It's worse than that. Immigrants send $50Billion out of the economy each year to family in their home countries. That's $250Billion in lost economic activity and $50Billion in lost tax revenue annually.

 

[PeachyKeane]

Trump wants to deport low wage illegals, and return good paying manufacturing jobs.

Those jobs aren't high-paying anymore. They were exported because they need people to work for less. If they come back, they're basically going to be as low as possible. Especially without strong unions.

High costs of goods support high wages, which supports a middle class lifestyle. We can't build the middle class on lower class wages and prices.

But higher priced goods with equally high wages leaves us exactly where we are now. If we raise the income by, say, 20%, and inflation also goes up 20% (which is what rising prices does), we end up exactly where we are now. The problem is that this assumes that demand and supply increase at the same rate...which never happens. Demand always goes up first which brings price up with it. This means we can expect inflation to increase more than income. Why would GM (for instance) pay anything more than minimum wage, if they've been paying far less overseas?

Good wages and benefits for domestic workers is the only proper way to build and share the wealth.

There's no promise of better wages, but a guarantee of higher cost of living.

 

[High Fidelity]

"Expert", definition:

"Ex"- A has-been.
"Spert"- A drip under pressure.

Masterfully side-stepped.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So do you believe in trickle down economics or not?

Trickle down economics is a fact of life, not an article of faith or an economic model. Trickle down occurs at all levels of the economy. Capital is formed, projects are initiated, and the money flows downhill. Collecting taxes is actually 'capital formation' by the government. Spending on programs starts with the highest paid participants and makes it way down from there. And all along the way taxes are again collected (capital formation) and the cycle repeats.

It is capital formation and spending at the highest levels that sustain the economy. If this wasn't true then small towns who lose their primary industries (i.e., the shoe factory) would do just fine with the commerce that remains. Instead they barely survive.

The economy is like a complex juggling act; all the balls must be kept in the air at all times.

 

[PeachyKeane]

It's worse than that. Immigrants send $50Billion out of the economy each year to family in their home countries. That's $250Billion in lost economic activity and $50Billion in lost tax revenue annually.

Actually the number is $25billion, and that includes those sent by legal immigrants.

Mexico, in turn, invests around $50 billion back into the US economy annually.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Those jobs aren't high-paying anymore. They were exported because they need people to work for less. If they come back, they're basically going to be as low as possible. Especially without strong unions.



But higher priced goods with equally high wages leaves us exactly where we are now. If we raise the income by, say, 20%, and inflation also goes up 20% (which is what rising prices does), we end up exactly where we are now. The problem is that this assumes that demand and supply increase at the same rate...which never happens. Demand always goes up first which brings price up with it. This means we can expect inflation to increase more than income. Why would GM (for instance) pay anything more than minimum wage, if they've been paying far less overseas?



There's no promise of better wages, but a guarantee of higher cost of living.

I agree that it seems that things aren't going to get much better.

The relationship between publically traded companies, their private company suppliers, and stockholders must be examined. There is a rat in that woodpile as well.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Actually the number is $25billion, and that includes those sent by legal immigrants.

Included all the other countries and it's $50Billion.

 

[Goonie]

This whole debate ignores the fact that all these well paid manufacturing jobs are likely to be automated out of existence. The result of Trump forcing companies to move work back to the USA will be increased automation defeating any benefits.

 

[PeachyKeane]

Trickle down economics is a fact of life, not an article of faith or an economic model. Trickle down occurs at all levels of the economy. Capital is formed, projects are initiated, and the money flows downhill. Collecting taxes is actually 'capital formation' by the government. Spending on programs starts with the highest paid participants and makes it way down from there. And all along the way taxes are again collected (capital formation) and the cycle repeats.

It's a fact of life if the Trickle Down Theory is true. It's still an economic theory that appears not to work. My question stands. If you believe in trickle down economics, and the "job creators" have been experiencing growth, and the average income has increased, where's that trickle down effect?

It is capital formation and spending at the highest levels that sustain the economy. If this wasn't true then small towns who lose their primary industries (i.e., the shoe factory) would do just fine with the commerce that remains. Instead they barely survive.

Great. So considering that the top earners have been experiencing growth, the GDP has been growing, the average income has been increasing. If, in your example, the corporation has not only stayed in town, but is experiencing growth, why do we need to be bringing manufacturing jobs back? That growth is already trickling down, and has been for several years if the theory is true.

The economy is like a complex juggling act; all the balls must be kept in the air at all times.

I've talked to you about economics before, and I know not to just take your word for it. My question is: If you believe that the Trickle Down Theory of economics is true why do you and your candidate promise to work against it?

 

[Oafman]

He too has profits stashed in foreign banks, for the same reason other companies do; unreasonably high taxes here at home.

There will always be a territory with lower taxes.

Are you familiar with the term 'race to the bottom'?

 

[PeachyKeane]

Included all the other countries and it's $50Billion.

Actually, it's far more than that. It would be $125 billion including legal and illegal immigrants (all remittances from non-citizens or corporations). Should we make a law saying that American money must stay in America?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This whole debate ignores the fact that all these well paid manufacturing jobs are likely to be automated out of existence. The result of Trump forcing companies to move work back to the USA will be increased automation defeating any benefits.

The solution has many moving parts, legislation being a primary one, and those wheels grind very slowly.

 

[J Cord]

Ignorance is a way of life that provides for a good economy as well.

No it doesn't.

At one time the USA could get away with a bunch of uneducated ignorance, because a good part of the rest of the world was even more uneducated and ignorant. Now the rest of the world is catching up and passing the USA in education. Now the uneducated minimum wage earners are worth what they are being paid in China, about $1.86/hour, and that's being generous, a lot of countries pay even lower wages. If the wages go any higher, those people can be replaced by robots. And as the cost of robotics drops, the wages companies are willing to pay will also drop.

EDIT: Oh, and you will also have to start wearing a face mask, because the pollution from some of these manufacturing plants is so bad, and if you want to make it economically viable for those companies to move to the USA, then you will also have to let these companies pollute your cities.

In your race to the bottom, here is what you want to bring to the USA:

China tops WHO list for deadly outdoor air pollution

More than 1 million people died from dirty air in one year, according to World Health Organisation

That ought to be good eh?

 

[PeachyKeane]

No it doesn't.

At one time the USA could get away with a bunch of uneducated ignorance, because a good part of the rest of the world was even more uneducated and ignorant. Now the rest of the world is catching up and passing the USA in education. Now the uneducated minimum wage earners are worth what they are being paid in China, about $1.86/hour, and that's being generous, a lot of countries pay even lower wages. If the wages go any higher, those people can be replaced by robots. And as the cost of robotics drops, the wages companies are willing to pay will also drop.

It's worth pointing out that during our most successful period of growth, we had the most educated workforce on Earth. Now we are being surpassed by most of Europe, the UK, Canada, Japan, South Korea, and Singapore. Around half of their adult population has graduated from college, trade school or an apprenticeship program. This number actually increases with each subsequent generation.

Less than 40% of the US' population have graduated from college, trade schools, or apprenticeships, and the number stays roughly the same, or goes down with each subsequent generation.