The Days of Noah and Lot

[Psalm3704]

Endtimes, I advise you not to bother replying to the above post.
We can all see how he/she casts nasty aspersions about your faith and makes your reasoned responses into something you never meant.
It is quite noticeable how those who grip onto the rapture theory get nasty and resort to character assignation, when challenged with scriptures they can't counter.

And Keras never gets nasty when others disagree with him. You wouldn't say this if he didn't hold the same position on the rapture as you.

As for scriptures, I still can't figure out how posties continue to believe a rapture takes place where the elects are gathered from heaven.

Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV)
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

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[Endtime Survivors]

Endtimes, I advise you not to bother replying to the above post.
We can all see how he/she casts nasty aspersions about your faith and makes your reasoned responses into something you never meant.
It is quite noticeable how those who grip onto the rapture theory get nasty and resort to character assignation, when challenged with scriptures they can't counter.

Hi Keras. Thanks for the encouragement and yeah, I understand what's happening with pslam3704. If it really was a 1 on 1 I would have walked away several posts ago, but since the debate is public I don't mind persevering. I'm actually a little thankful for him, as without his contributions this thread would have become rather old and decrepit by now!

At least this way the topic stays near the top of the list and for that I'm okay to take a few sucker punches.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

Fool! LOL! The parable of the rich fool is about greed.

Quite true. But how did his greed manifest itself in practical, day to day life? What was he doing?

Punishment for doing everyday normal routines of life: eating, drinking, marrying does not warrant the type of punishment that constitute destruction.

And yet, normal, everyday routines of life are the reasons Jesus listed for why the people of Noah and Lots day were destroyed.

That's what He said but that's not what He told us as the reason why they were destroyed. Jesus went on to tell us numerous times "you do not know!"

Jesus starts by saying, "as it was in the days of..." and then lists the normal, everyday activities of those people and immediately, in the same sentence, concludes that they were doing these things right up until the time they were destroyed. Now, it's true that he does not use the words, "they were precisely destroyed specifically because of these activities", but neither should he need to use those exact words for a sincere person to get the lesson.

He followed it up by saying the last days would be just like those times. As the video describes, Jesus also told parable about a king who invited the guests, but, one by one, the guests all declined because they were busy with their various day to day activities. One was busy with a field. One was busy with his cattle. Another was busy with his new wife. This theme of the cares of life is consistent throughout the gospels. Clearly, God has a problem with people putting the normal, everyday cares of this life ahead of him and yes, if they continue in their rebelliousness (which they disguise as respectability to make themselves feel better) he will destroy them. That much is plain from the examples of Noah and Lots day.

Peter goes on to describe this very situation, commenting that God is not like a human who easily forgets over time. To God, he remembers thousands of years ago as if it were yesterday. If he destroyed people thousands of years ago for their rebelliousness, then he will also destroy the people of today, (or tomorrow) for their rebelliousness. He does not change, like humans, over thousands of years and become complacent about evil. Just because he has delayed his wrath, we should not think we won't all be held accountable, whether it be for rewards or for destruction.

Since Noah knew about a coming flood and warned others, why would he wait till it started raining to build the ark?

This is strange, because I'm the one who previously made this very argument. In post number 46, I said, "That doesn't make any sense. The flood was God's wrath. By the time it started raining it was too late to build a boat. The warning was Noah's testimony." And this was in response to your comments that the flood was not the wrath of God but rather the warning of God, and those comments were based on your insistence that God does not destroy people (or at least does not destroy them for putting something as innocent as the everyday cares of this life before him...)

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It is a good video,
and due to human physical constraints (like TIME AVAILABLE)
it cannot contain all truth.
Just try to find one thread on this forum
that contains as much truth as the short video.

I believe the video has a truth but avoids all of the truth.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Quite true. But how did his greed manifest itself in practical, day to day life? What was he doing?

For later/ bookmark this post (if you want to) remember this. "greed manifest" - along with "love of money is ...."
This is of unknown importance at this point. Perhaps for later followup.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

(or at least does not destroy them for putting something as innocent as the everyday cares of this life before him...)

No matter what the people were doing day to day, or at night, or any time at that time -
The evil at the time (as it is today) was overwhelming the earth and would have ended up destroying everyone if it was not put to an end by YHWH. (apparently this is full - flavored from the Hebrew which is much much more explicit about the total complete and utter wickedness of all society then; and today (as written in Galatians - "pernicious" not just wicked and evil, but seeking to drag down everyone in evil as well).

 

[Endtime Survivors]

Okay, (unexpected serendipity/ providence/ chance/ who knows?)

did you notice the lie experienced/ passed on totally unknowingly(to the authors/producers) ) in the video ? It is right at the point where it makes a statement to the effect that or as if "not everything is bad" - sort of like "encourage or be glad for the good"
but they picture something evil while trying to make that point.
Oh, it is certainly not on purpose - but as written in Revelation "sorcery/witchcraft will deceive the whole world in the end days" and it has so much that they making the video did not even realize it (yet at least when they produced the video).
OR , at that point, it may be more "the beast" or other aspect of the world wide deception .... just it looks "good" to the world, even to "churches", but is controlled by very wicked prince of the power of the air.... (the devil)....

Hi Jeff. Thanks for your comments, though I found them a bit difficult to follow. Would you mind rephrasing or perhaps being more specific?

 

[Psalm3704]

At least this way the topic stays near the top of the list and for that I'm okay to take a few sucker punches.

Aha!

I shoulda figured you were troll bumping your thread to get people to watch your videos.






.

 

[Psalm3704]

Quite true. But how did his greed manifest itself in practical, day to day life? What was he doing?

And yet, normal, everyday routines of life are the reasons Jesus listed for why the people of Noah and Lots day were destroyed.

Jesus starts by saying, "as it was in the days of..." and then lists the normal, everyday activities of those people and immediately, in the same sentence, concludes that they were doing these things right up until the time they were destroyed. Now, it's true that he does not use the words, "they were precisely destroyed specifically because of these activities", but neither should he need to use those exact words for a sincere person to get the lesson.

He followed it up by saying the last days would be just like those times. As the video describes, Jesus also told parable about a king who invited the guests, but, one by one, the guests all declined because they were busy with their various day to day activities. One was busy with a field. One was busy with his cattle. Another was busy with his new wife. This theme of the cares of life is consistent throughout the gospels. Clearly, God has a problem with people putting the normal, everyday cares of this life ahead of him and yes, if they continue in their rebelliousness (which they disguise as respectability to make themselves feel better) he will destroy them. That much is plain from the examples of Noah and Lots day.

Peter goes on to describe this very situation, commenting that God is not like a human who easily forgets over time. To God, he remembers thousands of years ago as if it were yesterday. If he destroyed people thousands of years ago for their rebelliousness, then he will also destroy the people of today, (or tomorrow) for their rebelliousness. He does not change, like humans, over thousands of years and become complacent about evil. Just because he has delayed his wrath, we should not think we won't all be held accountable, whether it be for rewards or for destruction.

This is strange, because I'm the one who previously made this very argument. In post number 46, I said, "That doesn't make any sense. The flood was God's wrath. By the time it started raining it was too late to build a boat. The warning was Noah's testimony." And this was in response to your comments that the flood was not the wrath of God but rather the warning of God, and those comments were based on your insistence that God does not destroy people (or at least does not destroy them for putting something as innocent as the everyday cares of this life before him...)

You'll find your reply here:

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/as-in-the-days-of-noah.7952742/page-3






.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Hi Jeff. Thanks for your comments, though I found them a bit difficult to follow. Would you mind rephrasing or perhaps being more specific?

I'll message you.
If it doesn't show up / get through due to settings or something , message me.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Endtime Survivors]

The great tribulation is the wrath of Satan.
The vials are full of the wrath of God.

God's wrath doesn't begin until the 6th seal/7th trumpet
/after the great tribulation is over.

We are not appointed unto wrath - any wrath - all wrath?
no - the only kind that begins when the end of our faith starts

We are not appointed unto wrath but salvation.

Salvation does not come till Jesus Christ appears and Paul
linked that to the time of judging the dead.
7th trumpet
And Paul has a crown laid up for him till this appearing.
So do others that love His appearing.

Thanks for this post, v4u. This thread isn't really about pre-vs-post trib rature, but I think there can be some overlap, too. Jesus' reference to the Days of Noah and Lot were a warning for us of what to look for as a sign of the "end time" and I think the most significant part of your post is where you say, "we are not appointed to wrath but salvation".

I think the link is that the flood and the fire/brimstone from heaven were manifestations of God's wrath. The warnings where there for who knows how long before the wrath actually fell, but when it did fall it affected everyone who chose to stay rather than leave.

Part of what bothers me about Jesus' warning regarding the days of Noah and lot is that it seems like the issue of being distracted by the cares of this world has always been a problem for us humans, because we are physical creatures constantly interacting with the physical. But Jesus seems to be suggesting that there will be something more to it, perhaps more intense or prolific in the last days.

When I look around at the world, with all it's entrainment, advertising, gossip, materialism, self-love, greed, exploitation of not only the environment but of humans in just about every way, I can well imagine what Jesus was alluding to. At his Crucifixion he told the people not to weep for him, but rather for future generations, because if they could crucify their lord when the tree is green, what would it be like when the tree is dry? I think this also relates to the idea of Jesus' followers being the salt of the Earth. Salt is a preservative, and I think that's what we are meant to do; to preserve as much goodness as we can in a a dying world. We're fighting a losing battle, but we're still supposed to keep fighting anyway. The salt is losing it's sting. The treeing is drying up. And in the last days is will be like it was just before the flood, where they were too busy with the cares of the world to care about what God wanted.

If we are distracted away from the creator of love, justice, and peace, then it makes sense that our participation in the administration of those spiritual qualities will also decrease in the world around us. We will just naturally practice less love, less justice, and less peace as a consequence of being distracted. The worst part is just how easy it is to convince ourselves that we are not distracted, that we really are righteous and right with God, just like the people standing at the gate asking to be let in because they knew Jesus, but then Jesus said, "I don't know you, go away".

 

[Dennis1209]

Indeed. I'm guessing the video didn't do much to inspire change in your position that the problem with the days of Noah and Lot related to genetic manipulation and sexual sin?

That's my interpretation also. Methuselah [his death shall bring judgement] being an example of the Lord's long suffering and patience, lived approximately 969 years. The longest recorded life span ever.

Indeed, there was a major gene pool problem going on with the nephilim [offspring between the fallen angels and those whom they chose]. I asked myself, what was the major difference between Noah's day compared to any other time in history, and Genesis 6: pretty much summed it up. Noah [and by assumption his family] were found perfect in his generation. We all should know that didn't mean 'sinless', so what would that mean? My studies and belief concludes there DNA was as God created and not corrupted.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that,... I've done a lot of research on "and also after that". I can not conclude with any certainty how the nephilim returned other than three possibilities. (1) Some of them were strong enough to escape the global flood. (2) One of Noah's daughter-in-laws was carrying the nephilim gene. (3) The fallen angels returned after the flood and continued their abominations?

If the giants existed you would think there would be a fossil record of them. There is a 'boat load' and multiple independent DNA testing is occurring, and the results are as you would expect of a mating between a half angelic being and a fully human woman. If this subject interests you, I suggest reading documented materials and DVD'S from such scholars and researchers as; Dr, Thomas Horn, Dr. Chuck Missler, Gary Stearman, Chris Putnam and L.A. Marzulli.

I find what our Lord said particularly intriguing. Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. When you ask yourself, what differentiated the 'days of Noe' from any other corrupted period of biblical history, the answer is obvious.

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce , if it were possible, even the elect. Wow, now that's a powerful statement! Also notice that this statement from our Lord is plural, so it has to be in addition to the "Man of Perdition, the anti-Christ" and the "False Prophet". What could possibly happen to deceive the world and what wonders? I have my own theories on how purported extra-terrestrials [extra dimensional demons / fallen angels] might play a role in this.

If my bibliology is accurate and correct, then it appears we are going to see another manifestation of the nephilim in the future.

Could we be witnessing the beginnings of this phenomena in our day with: The Holy See changing its doctrine on extra-terrestrial's and what it's spouting, tens of thousands of witnessed UFO sightings [a huge uptick], alien abductions, TV programs littered with alien programs, big foots, the Vatican observatory with its L.U.C.I.F.E.R equipment on Mt. Graham, AZ., all the scientific trans-humanism and Chimaera experimentation occurring, DNA manipulation, the actual goal of CERN and the LHC, etc.?

Daniel 8:26 And the vision of the evening and morning which was told is true; wherefore shut thou up thou vision; for it shall be for many days. (27) ... but none understood it.

It seems our eyes are being opened to understand what has been 'hidden' until the last days.

We are living in interesting times to say the least. Perhaps we are the generation that will hear, "come up hither". Now that's exciting!

 

[Dennis1209]

Thanks for this post, v4u. This thread isn't really about pre-vs-post trib rature, but I think there can be some overlap, too. Jesus' reference to the Days of Noah and Lot were a warning for us of what to look for as a sign of the "end time" and I think the most significant part of your post is where you say, "we are not appointed to wrath but salvation".

I think the link is that the flood and the fire/brimstone from heaven were manifestations of God's wrath. The warnings where there for who knows how long before the wrath actually fell, but when it did fall it affected everyone who chose to stay rather than leave.

Part of what bothers me about Jesus' warning regarding the days of Noah and lot is that it seems like the issue of being distracted by the cares of this world has always been a problem for us humans, because we are physical creatures constantly interacting with the physical. But Jesus seems to be suggesting that there will be something more to it, perhaps more intense or prolific in the last days.

When I look around at the world, with all it's entrainment, advertising, gossip, materialism, self-love, greed, exploitation of not only the environment but of humans in just about every way, I can well imagine what Jesus was alluding to. At his Crucifixion he told the people not to weep for him, but rather for future generations, because if they could crucify their lord when the tree is green, what would it be like when the tree is dry? I think this also relates to the idea of Jesus' followers being the salt of the Earth. Salt is a preservative, and I think that's what we are meant to do; to preserve as much goodness as we can in a a dying world. We're fighting a losing battle, but we're still supposed to keep fighting anyway. The salt is losing it's sting. The treeing is drying up. And in the last days is will be like it was just before the flood, where they were too busy with the cares of the world to care about what God wanted.

If we are distracted away from the creator of love, justice, and peace, then it makes sense that our participation in the administration of those spiritual qualities will also decrease in the world around us. We will just naturally practice less love, less justice, and less peace as a consequence of being distracted. The worst part is just how easy it is to convince ourselves that we are not distracted, that we really are righteous and right with God, just like the people standing at the gate asking to be let in because they knew Jesus, but then Jesus said, "I don't know you, go away".

Well said E.S., you hit the nail on the head and I totally agree.

In addition to all that 'facts' you mention, what's your opinion of my eschatology outlined above? I'm certainly not dogmatic about it, but the pieces of a puzzle seem to be coming together.

 

[Postvieww]

That's my interpretation also. Methuselah [his death shall bring judgement] being an example of the Lord's long suffering and patience, lived approximately 969 years. The longest recorded life span ever.

Indeed, there was a major gene pool problem going on with the nephilim [offspring between the fallen angels and those whom they chose]. I asked myself, what was the major difference between Noah's day compared to any other time in history, and Genesis 6: pretty much summed it up. Noah [and by assumption his family] were found perfect in his generation. We all should know that didn't mean 'sinless', so what would that mean? My studies and belief concludes there DNA was as God created and not corrupted.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that,... I've done a lot of research on "and also after that". I can not conclude with any certainty how the nephilim returned other than three possibilities. (1) Some of them were strong enough to escape the global flood. (2) One of Noah's daughter-in-laws was carrying the nephilim gene. (3) The fallen angels returned after the flood and continued their abominations?

If the giants existed you would think there would be a fossil record of them. There is a 'boat load' and multiple independent DNA testing is occurring, and the results are as you would expect of a mating between a half angelic being and a fully human woman. If this subject interests you, I suggest reading documented materials and DVD'S from such scholars and researchers as; Dr, Thomas Horn, Dr. Chuck Missler, Gary Stearman, Chris Putnam and L.A. Marzulli.

I find what our Lord said particularly intriguing. Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. When you ask yourself, what differentiated the 'days of Noe' from any other corrupted period of biblical history, the answer is obvious.

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce , if it were possible, even the elect. Wow, now that's a powerful statement! Also notice that this statement from our Lord is plural, so it has to be in addition to the "Man of Perdition, the anti-Christ" and the "False Prophet". What could possibly happen to deceive the world and what wonders? I have my own theories on how purported extra-terrestrials [extra dimensional demons / fallen angels] might play a role in this.

If my bibliology is accurate and correct, then it appears we are going to see another manifestation of the nephilim in the future.

Could we be witnessing the beginnings of this phenomena in our day with: The Holy See changing its doctrine on extra-terrestrial's and what it's spouting, tens of thousands of witnessed UFO sightings [a huge uptick], alien abductions, TV programs littered with alien programs, big foots, the Vatican observatory with its L.U.C.I.F.E.R equipment on Mt. Graham, AZ., all the scientific trans-humanism and Chimaera experimentation occurring, DNA manipulation, the actual goal of CERN and the LHC, etc.?

Daniel 8:26 And the vision of the evening and morning which was told is true; wherefore shut thou up thou vision; for it shall be for many days. (27) ... but none understood it.

It seems our eyes are being opened to understand what has been 'hidden' until the last days.

We are living in interesting times to say the least. Perhaps we are the generation that will hear, "come up hither". Now that's exciting!

I agree 100% with your post but get ready for the attacks and name calling. I started a thread on this topic and it was flooded with much opposition and very little scriptural rebuttal.

 

[tranquil]

That's my interpretation also. Methuselah [his death shall bring judgement] being an example of the Lord's long suffering and patience, lived approximately 969 years. The longest recorded life span ever.

Indeed, there was a major gene pool problem going on with the nephilim [offspring between the fallen angels and those whom they chose]. I asked myself, what was the major difference between Noah's day compared to any other time in history, and Genesis 6: pretty much summed it up. Noah [and by assumption his family] were found perfect in his generation. We all should know that didn't mean 'sinless', so what would that mean? My studies and belief concludes there DNA was as God created and not corrupted.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that,... I've done a lot of research on "and also after that". I can not conclude with any certainty how the nephilim returned other than three possibilities. (1) Some of them were strong enough to escape the global flood. (2) One of Noah's daughter-in-laws was carrying the nephilim gene. (3) The fallen angels returned after the flood and continued their abominations?

If the giants existed you would think there would be a fossil record of them. There is a 'boat load' and multiple independent DNA testing is occurring, and the results are as you would expect of a mating between a half angelic being and a fully human woman. If this subject interests you, I suggest reading documented materials and DVD'S from such scholars and researchers as; Dr, Thomas Horn, Dr. Chuck Missler, Gary Stearman, Chris Putnam and L.A. Marzulli.

I find what our Lord said particularly intriguing. Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. When you ask yourself, what differentiated the 'days of Noe' from any other corrupted period of biblical history, the answer is obvious.

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce , if it were possible, even the elect. Wow, now that's a powerful statement! Also notice that this statement from our Lord is plural, so it has to be in addition to the "Man of Perdition, the anti-Christ" and the "False Prophet". What could possibly happen to deceive the world and what wonders? I have my own theories on how purported extra-terrestrials [extra dimensional demons / fallen angels] might play a role in this.

If my bibliology is accurate and correct, then it appears we are going to see another manifestation of the nephilim in the future.

Could we be witnessing the beginnings of this phenomena in our day with: The Holy See changing its doctrine on extra-terrestrial's and what it's spouting, tens of thousands of witnessed UFO sightings [a huge uptick], alien abductions, TV programs littered with alien programs, big foots, the Vatican observatory with its L.U.C.I.F.E.R equipment on Mt. Graham, AZ., all the scientific trans-humanism and Chimaera experimentation occurring, DNA manipulation, the actual goal of CERN and the LHC, etc.?

Daniel 8:26 And the vision of the evening and morning which was told is true; wherefore shut thou up thou vision; for it shall be for many days. (27) ... but none understood it.

It seems our eyes are being opened to understand what has been 'hidden' until the last days.

We are living in interesting times to say the least. Perhaps we are the generation that will hear, "come up hither". Now that's exciting!

The reason for all the "UFO" propaganda is: the antichrist is going to fake an 'alien' / 'demon' invasion, and he will be the mortally head wounded hero of the battle. An 'alien' 9-11 if you will. This is the 'pharmakia'/ drugs sorcery that Mystery Babylon subjects people to and people will attribute the visions to alien/ demons.

Then cue the calls for worshipping idols and unity and singing cumbaya with the false prophet. In all likelihood, the 3rd temple will play a role in 'exorcising' these 'demons' from the planet.

Horn and Missler are wicked men shoveling wicked lies to the masses.

 

[daughterofthemosthigh7]

UFO alien deception will no doubt play/be big part during tribulation imo it may even be used in explaining away our (Body of Christ) disappearance after rapture...