Should Christians rest on the Sabbath (saturday) and rejoice on the Lords day (sunday)?

[1John2:4]

And Paul told the Hebrews the rest of the deal with the Sabbath:
Hebrews 11:1-4
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Amen, this example too!! So many Sabbath examples

Are you saying the writer of Hebrews (we are never told it is Paul there is speculation but no one really knows who wrote Hebrews) is encouraging others to not keep Sabbath in this passage? What makes you think this passage is anti Sabbath?

 

[1John2:4]

You made the judgment that because I don't "keep the Sabbath" that I am choosing "not to keep God's commandments". So, you are judging me as breaking God's commandments.

If you are not keeping Sabbath you are not keeping the ten commandments, I am stating a fact not making a judgement. Sabbath is #4 if you are not doing it, you are not doing all of the commandments plain and simple. If I said I kept them all but I still covet God has done away with coveting so I can covet whenever I want, that would be like what you are saying about #4. Unless you keep the Sabbath then I apologize.

 

[1John2:4]

As a background, Hebrews 7.12 says the law was changed.

Hebrews 7.19 says that what the New Testament believer now has is "better" than the law.

You are right there was a change, the change is the priesthood. Remember when many of the Isrealites sinned at the bottom of Mount Sinai before Moses brought down the first tablets and only the Levites did not worship the golden calf? They were appointed because of transgression. They did not stay clean so a change was made Yeshua is the high priest. Another reason this was being presented is because the Messiah came from the line of Judah not Levi. The writer of Hebrews is explaining how He is not only Messiah but the high priest coming from the line of Melchizedek from that priesthood not Levitical.

 

[faroukfarouk]

You are right there was a change, the change is the priesthood. Remember when many of the Isrealites sinned at the bottom of Mount Sinai before Moses brought down the first tablets and only the Levites did not worship the golden calf? They were appointed because of transgression. They did not stay clean so a change was made Yeshua is the high priest. Another reason this was being presented is because the Messiah came from the line of Judah not Levi. The writer of Hebrews is explaining how He is not only Messiah but the high priest coming from the line of Melchizedek from that priesthood not Levitical.

Verse 12 says that the law was changed also. Verse 19 says what we have now is better than the law. We probably come from different presuppositions, but this is how I read what it says.

 

[1John2:4]

Verse 12 says that the law was changed also. Verse 19 says what we have now is better than the law. We probably come from different presuppositions, but this is how I read what it says.

11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood, what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood. 15 And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life. 17 For He testifies:

“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”

18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.


This is talking about a change in the priesthood that was the change in the law. This speaks nothing of a change of His commandments just a change in the priesthood. They no longer need the Yom Kippur sacrifice to take away sin, it never took away intentional sin anyway or you would not have seen David pleading with God for forgiveness. The fruit He desires is repentance and obedience to His commandments that is how we love Him. We come with a humble heart before our mediator the Messiah who is the mediator of the new covenant and His blood covers our transgression.
Thanks for the dialog,
Shalom

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Amen, this example too!! So many Sabbath examples

Are you saying the writer of Hebrews (we are never told it is Paul there is speculation but no one really knows who wrote Hebrews) is encouraging others to not keep Sabbath in this passage? What makes you think this passage is anti Sabbath?

Perhaps the mystery of lawlessness at work throughout this world (all society everywhere) ?

FWIW (for what it's worth), a long time ago it was proven (satisfactorily to me) that Paul wrote Hebrews, as YHWH BREATHED/INSPIRED HIS WORD through him.

And ALL SCRIPTURE is in Perfect Harmony/ Orchestrated Magnificently with TORAH in every fiber - YHWH'S TORAH and not talmudic torah (there's different torah's).

 

[1John2:4]

Perhaps the mystery of lawlessness at work throughout this world (all society everywhere) ?

FWIW (for what it's worth), a long time ago it was proven (satisfactorily to me) that Paul wrote Hebrews, as YHWH BREATHED/INSPIRED HIS WORD through him.

And ALL SCRIPTURE is in Perfect Harmony/ Orchestrated Magnificently with TORAH in every fiber - YHWH'S TORAH and not talmudic torah (there's different torah's).

Thanks for the reply . It sure sounds a lot like Paul's other writings and I agree it is truly inspired, everything in the bible is. I do not believe in the Talmud, it is just commentary, a fence if you will, just like modern Bibles contain commentary (some way more than others). I guess God has His reasoning for keeping the author unknown. Just curious, what made you come to the conclusion that Paul wrote it?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Thanks for the reply . It sure sounds a lot like Paul's other writings and I agree it is truly inspired, everything in the bible is. I do not believe in the Talmud, it is just commentary, a fence if you will, just like modern Bibles contain commentary (some way more than others). I guess God has His reasoning for keeping the author unknown. Just curious, what made you come to the conclusion that Paul wrote it?

Y'SHUA doesn't tell us to come to the conclusion that HE or HIS WORD is TRUE - simply believe HIM and DO AS HE SAYS. Otherwise, it is a work of the mind and not faith.
Likewsie, there's never been a time in my life when I doubted (though there are temptations every day to sin, even in the house of YHWH) . The proof came much later, as YHWH PLEASED.

 

[parousia70]

I do not sacrifice animals, the sacrifices are supposed to be made only in Jerusalem at the temple on the alter. When Yeshua returns as King of Kings in New Jerusalem, as Ezekiel the prophet foretold we will again have offerings

So, Just so I'm clear, Your position is that in the future, The Glorified Christ will sit on a physical throne in a physical temple in Earthly Jerusalem and require Human Beings to be physically circumcised and render blood animal sacrifices at His feet for atonement of their sins and acceptance by Him?

Do I have that right?

 

[parousia70]

Well let's see have heaven and earth passed away yet?

Depends on Which "Heaven and Earth" you are talking about.

THIS "Heaven and Earth", the one God Created AFTER He brought the Israelites out of Egypt and formed them into a Nation, has:

Isaiah 51:15-16
But I am the Lord your God,
Who divided the sea whose waves roared—
The Lord of hosts is His name.
16 And I have put My words in your mouth;
I have covered you with the shadow of My hand,
That I may plant the heavens,
Lay the foundations of the earth,
And say to Zion, ‘You are My people.’”

Indeed the OT is replete with Examples of God Destroying the "Heavens and the Earth" Multiple times at the Judgement of Nations, For example:

God Comes to End Saul's Kingdom - 1000 BC
Then the earth shook and quaked, the foundations of heaven were trembling and were shaken, because He was angry. Smoke went up out of His nostrils, fire from His mouth devoured; coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also, and came down with thick darkness under His feet. And He rode on a cherub and flew; And He appeared on the wings of the wind. And He made darkness canopies around Him, a mass of waters, thick clouds of the sky. From the brightness before Him coals of fire were kindled. The LORD thundered from heaven, and the Most High uttered His voice. And He sent out arrows, and scattered them, Lightning, and routed them. Then the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were laid bare by the rebuke of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of His nostrils. (2 Sam 22:8-16)


God Comes to Judge Nineveh - 600s BC
The LORD takes vengeance on His adversaries, and He reserves wrath for His enemies...In whirlwind and storm is His way, and clouds are the dust beneath His feet. He rebukes the sea and makes it dry; He dries up all the rivers. Bashan and Carmel wither; The blossoms of Lebanon wither. Mountains quake because of Him and the hills dissolve; Indeed the earth is upheaved by His presence, the world and all the inhabitants in it. (Nahum 1:2-5)


God Comes to Judge Egypt in the Time of Nebuchadnezzar - 600s BC
The day is near, even the day of the LORD is near; It will be a day of clouds, a time of doom for the nations. A sword will come upon Egypt, and anguish will be in Ethiopia; When the slain fall in Egypt...And they will know that I am the LORD, when I set a fire in Egypt...I will also make the hordes of Egypt cease by the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. He and his people with him, the most ruthless of the nations, will be brought in to destroy the land; and they will draw their swords against Egypt and fill the land with the slain. (Ezekiel 30:3-4,8, 10-11)


God Comes to Judge Israel at the Time of the Exile - 500s BC
As I live, says the Lord Yahweh, surely with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out, will I be king over you: and I will bring you out from the peoples, and will gather you out of the countries in which you are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out; and I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there will I enter into judgment with you face to face...Hear the word of Yahweh: Thus says the Lord Yahweh, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burnt thereby. All flesh shall see that I, Yahweh, have kindled it...Thus says Yahweh: Behold, I am against you, and will draw forth my sword out of its sheath, and will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked. Seeing then that I will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of its sheath against all flesh from the south to the north: and all flesh shall know that I, Yahweh, have drawn forth my sword out of its sheath (Ez 20:33-35,47-48; 21:3-5)


God Comes To Judge Ancient Babylon Using the Medes - 500s BC
Wail, for the day of the LORD is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty! Therefore all hands will be feeble, and every human heart will melt, and they will be dismayed. Pangs and agony will seize them; they will be in anguish like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at one another; their faces will be aflame. See, the day of the LORD comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger, to make the earth a desolation, and to destroy its sinners from it. For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising, and the moon will not shed its light. I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity...Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place, at the wrath of the LORD of hosts in the day of his fierce anger. Like a hunted gazelle, or like sheep with no one to gather them, all will turn to their own people, and all will flee to their own lands. Whoever is found will be thrust through, and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered, and their wives ravished. See, I am stirring up the Medes against them, who have no regard for silver and do not delight in gold. Their bows will slaughter the young men; they will have no mercy on the fruit of the womb; their eyes will not pity children. And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the splendor and pride of the Chaldeans, will be like Sodom and Gomorrah when God overthrew them. (Isaiah 13:6-11, 13,15-19)


When we apply this language consistently throughout scripture, it's easy to see that the Heaven and Earth Jesus said would pass away, is the one created in Isaiah 51, namely The Hebrew Nation of Israel, and it Did pass away, on time, As Promised:

God Comes to Judge Jerusalem at AD 70
I saw, and behold a white cloud; and upon the cloud one sitting like to the Son of man, having on his head a crown of gold, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the temple crying with a loud voice to him that sat upon the cloud: Thrust in thy sickle, and reap, because the hour is come to reap: for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust his sickle into the earth, and the earth was reaped. And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire; and he cried with a loud voice to him that had the sharp sickle, saying: Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vineyard of the earth; because the grapes thereof are ripe. And the angel thrust in his sharp sickle into the earth, and gathered the vineyard of the earth, and cast it into the great press of the wrath of God: And the press was trodden without the city (Revelation 14:14-20)

This Event took place at the "Coming of the Lord of the Vineyard", Foretold in Matthew 21:33-45:

33 “Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country.34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them.37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”

41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?

43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking of them.

Jesus, the Cornerstone, Indeed Came and ground those wicked men to Powder, removing the Kingdom from them, destroying the "Heavens and Earth" of Old Covenant Israel at that time, and Giving it to a New Nation , a "New Heaven and Earth" that has been bringing Him fruits for nearly 2000 years now, Just As Isaiah Foretold In Is 65:17-23

 

[faroukfarouk]

If you are not keeping Sabbath you are not keeping the ten commandments, I am stating a fact not making a judgement. Sabbath is #4 if you are not doing it, you are not doing all of the commandments plain and simple. If I said I kept them all but I still covet God has done away with coveting so I can covet whenever I want, that would be like what you are saying about #4. Unless you keep the Sabbath then I apologize.

Because 1 Cor. 15.20 "now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept", along with so many other Christians I would hold that the Lord Jesus is the perfect fulfillment of the feast of firstfruits and instead of going back to the type and shadow I now see the first day of the week when the Lord's people would usually meet to break bread. Being also dispensational in my understanding (i.e., the church is different from Israel, and the aspect of the Lord's coming for His church is different from the aspect which related to the OT 'day of the Lord', in power and glory), then we probably define things a little differently in some ways.

 

[1John2:4]

So, Just so I'm clear, Your position is that in the future, The Glorified Christ will sit on a physical throne in a physical temple in Earthly Jerusalem and require Human Beings to be physically circumcised and render blood animal sacrifices at His feet for atonement of their sins and acceptance by Him?

Do I have that right?

Ezekiel 43 Then the man brought me to the gate facing east, and I saw the glory of the God of Israel coming from the east. His voice was like the roar of rushing waters, and the land was radiant with his glory. The vision I saw was like the vision I had seen when head came to destroy the city and like the visions I had seen by the Kebar River, and I fell facedown. 4 of the Lord entered the temple through the gate facing east. 5 Then the spirit lifted me and brought me into the inner court, and the of the Lord filled the temple.

6 While the man was standing beside me, I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple. 7 He said: “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever. The people of Israel will never again defile my holy name—neither they nor their kings—by their prostitution and the funeral offerings for their kings at their death. 8 When they placed their threshold next to my threshold and their doorposts beside my doorposts, with only a wall between me and them, they defiled my holy name by their detestable practices. So I destroyed them in my anger. 9 Now let them put away from me their prostitution and the funeral offerings for their kings, and I will live among them forever.

10 “Son of man, describe the temple to the people of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their sins. Let them consider its perfection, 11 and if they are ashamed of all they have done, make known to them the design of the temple—its arrangement, its exits and entrances—its whole design and all its regulations and laws. Write these down before them so that they may be faithful to its design and follow all its regulations.

12 “This is the law of the temple: All the surrounding area on top of the mountain will be most holy. Such is the law of the temple.

If you read on it talks about all the rituals to cleanse the temple.

 

[1John2:4]

Depends on Which "Heaven and Earth" you are talking about.

THIS "Heaven and Earth", the one God Created AFTER He brought the Israelites out of Egypt and formed them into a Nation, has:

Isaiah 51:15-16
But I am the Lord your God,
Who divided the sea whose waves roared—
The Lord of hosts is His name.
16 And I have put My words in your mouth;
I have covered you with the shadow of My hand,
That I may plant the heavens,
Lay the foundations of the earth,
And say to Zion, ‘You are My people.’”

Indeed the OT is replete with Examples of God Destroying the "Heavens and the Earth" Multiple times at the Judgement of Nations, For example:

God Comes to End Saul's Kingdom - 1000 BC
Then the earth shook and quaked, the foundations of heaven were trembling and were shaken, because He was angry. Smoke went up out of His nostrils, fire from His mouth devoured; coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also, and came down with thick darkness under His feet. And He rode on a cherub and flew; And He appeared on the wings of the wind. And He made darkness canopies around Him, a mass of waters, thick clouds of the sky. From the brightness before Him coals of fire were kindled. The LORD thundered from heaven, and the Most High uttered His voice. And He sent out arrows, and scattered them, Lightning, and routed them. Then the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were laid bare by the rebuke of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of His nostrils. (2 Sam 22:8-16)


God Comes to Judge Nineveh - 600s BC
The LORD takes vengeance on His adversaries, and He reserves wrath for His enemies...In whirlwind and storm is His way, and clouds are the dust beneath His feet. He rebukes the sea and makes it dry; He dries up all the rivers. Bashan and Carmel wither; The blossoms of Lebanon wither. Mountains quake because of Him and the hills dissolve; Indeed the earth is upheaved by His presence, the world and all the inhabitants in it. (Nahum 1:2-5)


God Comes to Judge Egypt in the Time of Nebuchadnezzar - 600s BC
The day is near, even the day of the LORD is near; It will be a day of clouds, a time of doom for the nations. A sword will come upon Egypt, and anguish will be in Ethiopia; When the slain fall in Egypt...And they will know that I am the LORD, when I set a fire in Egypt...I will also make the hordes of Egypt cease by the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. He and his people with him, the most ruthless of the nations, will be brought in to destroy the land; and they will draw their swords against Egypt and fill the land with the slain. (Ezekiel 30:3-4,8, 10-11)


God Comes to Judge Israel at the Time of the Exile - 500s BC
As I live, says the Lord Yahweh, surely with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out, will I be king over you: and I will bring you out from the peoples, and will gather you out of the countries in which you are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out; and I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there will I enter into judgment with you face to face...Hear the word of Yahweh: Thus says the Lord Yahweh, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burnt thereby. All flesh shall see that I, Yahweh, have kindled it...Thus says Yahweh: Behold, I am against you, and will draw forth my sword out of its sheath, and will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked. Seeing then that I will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of its sheath against all flesh from the south to the north: and all flesh shall know that I, Yahweh, have drawn forth my sword out of its sheath (Ez 20:33-35,47-48; 21:3-5)


God Comes To Judge Ancient Babylon Using the Medes - 500s BC
Wail, for the day of the LORD is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty! Therefore all hands will be feeble, and every human heart will melt, and they will be dismayed. Pangs and agony will seize them; they will be in anguish like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at one another; their faces will be aflame. See, the day of the LORD comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger, to make the earth a desolation, and to destroy its sinners from it. For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising, and the moon will not shed its light. I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity...Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place, at the wrath of the LORD of hosts in the day of his fierce anger. Like a hunted gazelle, or like sheep with no one to gather them, all will turn to their own people, and all will flee to their own lands. Whoever is found will be thrust through, and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered, and their wives ravished. See, I am stirring up the Medes against them, who have no regard for silver and do not delight in gold. Their bows will slaughter the young men; they will have no mercy on the fruit of the womb; their eyes will not pity children. And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the splendor and pride of the Chaldeans, will be like Sodom and Gomorrah when God overthrew them. (Isaiah 13:6-11, 13,15-19)


When we apply this language consistently throughout scripture, it's easy to see that the Heaven and Earth Jesus said would pass away, is the one created in Isaiah 51, namely The Hebrew Nation of Israel, and it Did pass away, on time, As Promised:

God Comes to Judge Jerusalem at AD 70
I saw, and behold a white cloud; and upon the cloud one sitting like to the Son of man, having on his head a crown of gold, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the temple crying with a loud voice to him that sat upon the cloud: Thrust in thy sickle, and reap, because the hour is come to reap: for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust his sickle into the earth, and the earth was reaped. And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire; and he cried with a loud voice to him that had the sharp sickle, saying: Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vineyard of the earth; because the grapes thereof are ripe. And the angel thrust in his sharp sickle into the earth, and gathered the vineyard of the earth, and cast it into the great press of the wrath of God: And the press was trodden without the city (Revelation 14:14-20)

This Event took place at the "Coming of the Lord of the Vineyard", Foretold in Matthew 21:33-45:

33 “Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country.34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them.37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”

41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?

43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking of them.

Jesus, the Cornerstone, Indeed Came and ground those wicked men to Powder, removing the Kingdom from them, destroying the "Heavens and Earth" of Old Covenant Israel at that time, and Giving it to a New Nation , a "New Heaven and Earth" that has been bringing Him fruits for nearly 2000 years now, Just As Isaiah Foretold In Is 65:17-23

Great post, very thought out! God brings the sword and His mighty hand and scatters the people amongst the nations and brings wrath. I believe there is only one Day of the Lord where he will destroy the earth and it will roll up as a scroll; , Heaven and earth have not passed away. What you have listed are shadows which will foretell a future event. These all have happened and most on the same day the Ninth of AV. If you look at the stories in scripture they have duel meanings a physical and a spiritual. Passover is an amazing example, physical when they Israel was saved out of bondage by the blood of the lamb and how we are saved by the blood of the lamb out of bondage on the same day as Passover. That is the shadows that bring the reality. I am just curious, what is with your Grateful Dead images? Thanks again for the awesome post!!

 

[1John2:4]

Because 1 Cor. 15.20 "now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept", along with so many other Christians I would hold that the Lord Jesus is the perfect fulfillment of the feast of firstfruits and instead of going back to the type and shadow I now see the first day of the week when the Lord's people would usually meet to break bread. Being also dispensational in my understanding (i.e., the church is different from Israel, and the aspect of the Lord's coming for His church is different from the aspect which related to the OT 'day of the Lord', in power and glory), then we probably define things a little differently in some ways.

I believe they were in the Synagogues on the Sabbath listening to Moses being taught with the Jews then met together . In Acts 20 they were gathered the first day of the week which is Saturday night because the day begins at Sunset, they broke bread (ate dinner together) and sat and spoke together because Paul was to leave for his journey in the morning. I don't really see where scripture states because he is first fruits we are no longer to keep Gods Holy days. I guess because I believe we are grafted into Israel and you are a dispensationalist that would be a quite different interpretation

 

[faroukfarouk]

I believe they were in the Synagogues on the Sabbath listening to Moses being taught with the Jews then met together . In Acts 20 they were gathered the first day of the week which is Saturday night because the day begins at Sunset, they broke bread (ate dinner together) and sat and spoke together because Paul was to leave for his journey in the morning. I don't really see where scripture states because he is first fruits we are no longer to keep Gods Holy days.

It's probably because I am very strongly dispensational in my outlook (see my previous post) and you clearly aren't, so maybe it's not surprising that there is a divergence. Presuppositions can be very influential.

 

[Jim Langston]

Let me just try to summarize tge different points of views here.

1. The sabbath as Saturday is in the 10 commandments so we should still keep the Saturday Sabbath, however that is defined in our minds.

2. Jesus fullfilled the Sabbath so we no longer need to keep it. We should worship on the Lords day, Sunday instead.

3. We are not under the law anymore so following the 10 commandments is not something we as Christians have to do.

4. Jesus never said we had to keep the sabbath so it doesn't matter. We do need to keep the resr of the ten commandments.

5. Nobody keeps the letter of the law anyway reguarding what the Sabbath is supposed ro be.

Did I leave any viewpoints out?

Edit: Just to be clear, this is not talking about 1 viewpoint but about 5 different viewpoints. Are there any viewpoints other the the 5 I listed?

 

[1John2:4]

Y'SHUA doesn't tell us to come to the conclusion that HE or HIS WORD is TRUE - simply believe HIM and DO AS HE SAYS. Otherwise, it is a work of the mind and not faith.
Likewsie, there's never been a time in my life when I doubted (though there are temptations every day to sin, even in the house of YHWH) . The proof came much later, as YHWH PLEASED.

I apologize, I am just a little confused at what you are trying to say. Would you mind clarifying for me. Thank you

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

YHWH set the 7th Day Apart in Creation , HE did not wait until HE gave the 10 Words. HE NEVER AUTHORIZED a 'satur(n)day' Sabbath - only a 7th Day Sabbath. HE NEVER let it be defined by man "in their minds" but ALWAYS TOLD THEM WHAT TO DO, AND WHEN. (Y'SHUA CONFIRMED : the flesh profits nothing)
Y'SHUA NEVER made the 1st day the lord's day. That is pure conjecture and/or tradition not from YHWH.
Being "not under the law" does NOT MEAN to break the law. The lawless are prevented from Heaven.(Revelation)
YHWH AND Y'SHUA HONORED YHWH'S 7th DAY SABBATH AND SAID TO DO SO. That never changed.
(5.) the letter of the law kills. the spirit of the law gives LIFE.
who ever said to honor the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I apologize, I am just a little confused at what you are trying to say. Would you mind clarifying for me. Thank you

YHWH and Y'SHUA NEVER said to figure things out. To find out the TRUTH by flesh effort. - that is no good.
YHWH and Y'SHUA NEVER gave men a list and said "here, choose how to do this", nor "here, determine how to do this". Men are not capable of that, and YHWH and Y'SHUA never said they were.

 

[parousia70]

If you read on it talks about all the rituals to cleanse the temple.

Hey 1John... that's all well and good, but I'm not sure I understand how this answers my question?

I guess I'll ask it again:
Is Your position is that in the future, The Glorified Christ will sit on a physical throne in a physical temple in Earthly Jerusalem and require Human Beings to be physically circumcised and render blood animal sacrifices directly at His feet for atonement of their sins and acceptance by Him?

I mean, you do believe the following passages depict a time on our future, yes?:

Ezekiel 40:39
In the porch of the gate were two tables on each side, on which to slaughter the burnt offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering.

Ezekiel 42:13
the priests who are near to the LORD shall eat the most holy things. There they shall lay the most holy things, the grain offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering;

Ezekiel 43:20
'You shall take some of its blood and put it on its four horns and on the four corners of the ledge and on the border round about; thus you shall cleanse it and make atonement for it.

Ezekiel 43:21
'You shall also take the bull for the sin offering

Ezekiel 43:22
'On the second day you shall offer a male goat without blemish for a sin offering

Ezekiel 43:27
'When they have completed the days, it shall be that on the eighth day and onward, the priests shall offer your burnt offerings on the altar, and your peace offerings; AND I WILL ACCEPT YOU

Ezekiel 44:9
'Thus says the Lord GOD, "No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.

Ezekiel 44:10
"But the Levites who went far from Me when Israel went astray, who went astray from Me after their idols, shall bear the punishment for their iniquity. Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having oversight at the gates of the house and ministering in the house; they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people

Ezekiel 44:23
"Moreover, they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.