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Measure of faith. I've not seen that discussed in scripture. But I'm not well read, apparently.
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How can the grace of God be resisted by some yet received by others?
- Thread starter bottomofsandal
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Dig. Dig. Did the little shovel do. lolMeasure of faith. I've not seen that discussed in scripture. But I'm not well read, apparently.
Google it.
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Well, I believe it like this, as it says in 1 John 2:2
Parallel Verses
New International Version
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
New Living Translation
He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins--and not only our sins but the sins of all the world.
English Standard Version
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
Berean Study Bible
He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours alone, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Berean Literal Bible
And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world.
New American Standard Bible
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
King James Bible
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world.
International Standard Version
It is he who is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world's.
So then He died for us ( the saved), that we might live to God. And His atoning sacrifice for our sins, is also the propitiation for the sins of the world. If they believe, they have their sins atoned for, otherwise they do die in their sins without having had their sins remitted, not having Christ bearing their sins for them in particular..
His whole point of dying He said in John 10 was to give His life for the sheep so they would have eternal life, not coming into judgement of hell for the sins they had previously committed. Hell was actually split in two parts, one side fiery torments, and the other Jesus describes as Abraham's bosom, which had good things, even Abraham went to hell, but not to the fiery torment side.
Then we can read Romans 5, Paul's use of 'we' , 'our' ,' 'us' here is only about the church of believers who are in Christ.
The world can not claim Christ as 'our Lord Jesus Christ'.
Romans 5New King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Triumphs in Trouble
5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Christ in Our Place
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
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I have a slightly different understanding.
In God's Word it says that Christ conquered sin. All of sin. Wiped it out, whipped it fanny.
For both the saved and the unsaved. So Christ did not die for only the sins of the elect/saved. But for both, but one must be saved for their sin to be forgiven.
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,
This is in disagreement with the Calvinist view that Jesus only died for the sins of the elect.
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Well, not really. That verse says
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,
The 'us' there are those He brought to God, so then He died for them that He brought to God. And He died for us before we were born. We were ungodly and unrighteous and He died to make us righteous to God.
Actually it purely agrees with Christ in John 10
11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
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Now who is the snark master? I get all kind and humble and then ka-pow! I get hit by the snark bus. lol.So you have nothing.
That's what I figured.
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- Jun 26, 2015
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I'm afraid you will have to answer that question with more than a simple, no.
It seems to me that God was pleased when Cyrus believed God and obeyed him. What tells you that God was not pleased?
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I dunno about that. That He 'might' bring us to God. I'm not so sure about that.
What does Matthew Henry have to say about it?
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You have made a doctrinal statement that all get a measure of faith. I can't look up something that doesn't exist. But if you have more knowledge, please share.
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Yes, imo, if something is prophesied by God it is definitely preordained by God.
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Skala
I'm a Saint. Not because of me, but because of Him
If you used this hermaneutic, you couldn't apply very much of the Bible's spiritual truths or instructions to yourself today.
If you really think that way about Peter, that means you might as well tear 1st and 2nd Peter out of your Bible because they weren't written directly to you, thus, none of it applies to you.
In fact, just throw away your entire New Testament, because none of it was written to you as you didn't exist when it was written.
Romans was written to Romans. You're not Roman so ignore Romans.
Hebrews was written to Hebrews. You're not a Hebrew so just tear that out of your Bible, too.
I swear, the lengths people go through to ignore something that refutes their position is ridiculous.
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About the word 'elect' and the promise of eternal life, so then salvation, it says like this.
Romans 11
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
And Paul also acknowledges only the elect obtain salvation. I also do not work- suffer-endure hardships for the 'reprobate', even though that word is not here.
The elect Paul says are those who will be getting saved.
Not the idea those saved obtain election, do you understand?
2 Timothy 2:10New King James Version (NKJV)
10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Romans 11
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
And Paul also acknowledges only the elect obtain salvation. I also do not work- suffer-endure hardships for the 'reprobate', even though that word is not here.
The elect Paul says are those who will be getting saved.
Not the idea those saved obtain election, do you understand?
2 Timothy 2:10New King James Version (NKJV)
10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
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Skala
I'm a Saint. Not because of me, but because of Him
Nobody changed God's word. Pointing out the context is not changing anything, it's simply acknowledging the importance and truth of grammar because grammar matters in something that is written.
For example, the Bible says "Curse God and die", but that's only a small portion of a written passage and when you view it out of context, in a vacuum, it means something quite different than it actually means (Job 2:9)
You're misusing 2 Peter 3:9 the same way someone could misuse Job 2:9.
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The conversation was that Jesus 'died' for only the sins of the elect.
Not salvation was only for the elect.
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I assume you went back and looked at the exact post and re-read it that I am referring to? Because the context was changed.
Did you double-check?
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YLT
2Ti 2:10 because of this all things do I endure, because of the choice ones, that they also salvation may obtain that is in Christ Jesus, with glory age-during.
The chosen ones, that they ALSO may obtain...
In this verse the choice or chosen ones are the Gentiles that they also may obtain salvation in Christ just as the Jews may obtain salvation in Christ.
Paul is always teaching that the Gentiles are also God's chosen people, not just Israel.
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Only teaching that of those who are saved in his letters, they are written to believers are they not?
Your of the opinion then, that all the gentiles are chosen of God to be saved?
Except that it is of these gentiles are some chosen as are some jews, while the rest are blinded.
Example, of 'us whom He called' in v24 are to be shown mercy as vessels of mercy, and Paul is writing this in reference to saved persons, as clearly contrasted with vessels of wrath.
Romans 9:20-24New King James Version (NKJV)
20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
So some called, some not called.
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Proof, not all are called to be justified then glorified is easily found here.
Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
All elect are the called according to His purpose and they will all love Christ.
v30 is a true lock on the logical progression, showing that the called were first foreknown, v29, then finally glorified with salvation, v30.
Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
All elect are the called according to His purpose and they will all love Christ.
v30 is a true lock on the logical progression, showing that the called were first foreknown, v29, then finally glorified with salvation, v30.
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About being blinded.
Here the elect obtain so then experience spiritual understanding, eyes that see Christ, ears that hear God forever.
But if your blinded, your dulled, eyes can not see Christ, ears cannot hear God forever.
Unless God (Christ) has mercy to reveal to you the Himself, the Christ, you are blinded in your mind by Satan or even God.
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
Now here we read of the jew and gentile, blinded in their minds by Satan at v3 and 4.
But for the saved, at v6 we read God has shown in our hearts His light.
Salvation is of God alone, that is the only difference, and it proves His regeneration according to His will, not our will, being born again is how God saves us. This is a command of God that His light will enlighten some darkened hearts, while the rest remain blinded by Satan. God's command is eternal life to those He has chosen, and the only ones chosen are Christ's own elect who are His sheep.
2 Corinthians 4New King James Version (NKJV)
The Light of Christ’s Gospel
4 Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake.
6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Here the elect obtain so then experience spiritual understanding, eyes that see Christ, ears that hear God forever.
But if your blinded, your dulled, eyes can not see Christ, ears cannot hear God forever.
Unless God (Christ) has mercy to reveal to you the Himself, the Christ, you are blinded in your mind by Satan or even God.
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
Now here we read of the jew and gentile, blinded in their minds by Satan at v3 and 4.
But for the saved, at v6 we read God has shown in our hearts His light.
Salvation is of God alone, that is the only difference, and it proves His regeneration according to His will, not our will, being born again is how God saves us. This is a command of God that His light will enlighten some darkened hearts, while the rest remain blinded by Satan. God's command is eternal life to those He has chosen, and the only ones chosen are Christ's own elect who are His sheep.
2 Corinthians 4New King James Version (NKJV)
The Light of Christ’s Gospel
4 Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake.
6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
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