Should Christians rest on the Sabbath (saturday) and rejoice on the Lords day (sunday)?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I don't want to get into the whole Trinity vs. Oneness scrap right now. That is not for this thread.

I wasn't talking at all about trinity nor oneness.

You asked how old was Adam when he was created.
I replied YHWH was ONE. (and HE still IS - HE doesn't age) ......

Come to think of it, Adam was one day old after evening and morning made one day.....

He was the biggest, smartest , most able to do anything human, one day old human ever.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If you have the opportunity and the power to heal, you must, yes even on Shabbat. Yeshua's miracles were to produce faith...IN HIM.

You still miss the point.

There are many people who refuse to be healed . They don't want to be healed, or just cannot believe they can be healed.

Perhaps you mean then that those people PREVENT the opportunity to heal - which is true.
In any case, there are many Sabbaths when people remain UNhealed due to their lack of faith, SAME as in Y'SHUA's days on earth.

re:
Matthew 13:58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their ...
biblehub.com/matthew/13-58.htm
Bible Hub
And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I wasn't talking at all about trinity nor oneness.

You asked how old was Adam when he was created.
I replied YHWH was ONE. (and HE still IS - HE doesn't age) ......

Come to think of it, Adam was one day old after evening and morning made one day.....

Yet one day is like 1000 and 1000 like one...

 

[parousia70]

Sorry, but that is wrong. Adam sinned WHEN he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. However, God did not create him as a sinner. Rather, God created him as innocent.

BTW, please tell me when Adam was born? I don't remember that in any of the Scripture. Wasn't he created by God? Perhaps at late teens or early 20's?

You misunderstood, and perhaps I wasn't clear... everyone SINCE ADAM, had Adam's sin imputed upon him at Birth.

The "him" I referenced refers to the corporate "him" of everyone SINCE Adam, not Adam himself.
I figured that was self evident, but I guess not.

I've since edited the post for clarity.

But it's good to know you have no other objections to the points I made.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

You still miss the point.

There are many people who refuse to be healed . They don't want to be healed, or just cannot believe they can be healed.

Perhaps you mean then that those people PREVENT the opportunity to heal - which is true.
In any case, there are many Sabbaths when people remain UNhealed due to their lack of faith, SAME as in Y'SHUA's days on earth.

re:
Matthew 13:58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their ...
biblehub.com/matthew/13-58.htm
Bible Hub
And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

Of course...even on one instant, Yeshua did not even need be present for the healing to occur because of the great belief present.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

You misunderstood, and perhaps I want clear... everyone SINCE ADAM, had Adam's sin imputed upon him at Birth.

That is a lie. We can suffer the consequences of Adam and Eve's sin (death) but we are NOT guilty or born guilty of it!

 

[parousia70]

That is a lie. We can suffer the consequences of Adam and Eve's sin (death) but we are NOT guilty or born guilty of it!

Then Take it up with Paul, as your objection lies with Him, not me.

Or take up your objection with the Psalmist, as your view is polar opposite to His:
For I was born a sinner--yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.
Ps 51:5

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Of course...even on one instant, Yeshua did not even need be present for the healing to occur because of the great belief present.

Of course what ?

Here you are talking about when great belief is present.

There is no question there, no problem at all when people believe.

The point was simply there are times(many times) people could be healed and are not healed
on Sabbath or on any other day
because of their UNbelief.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

No they do not, you just do not understand them...

Or, you do not understand them.
The entire exchange when Jesus was confronted by a certain Pharisee, one educated in the law, for working on the Sabbath and Jesus response pertains to his working on the Sabbath.
You make these accusations that people don't understand and yet you don't prove you do. Because the scriptures are clear and you're just arguing for arguments sake.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Then Take it up with Paul, as your objection lies with Him, not me.

Or take up your objection with the Psalmist, as your view is polar opposite to His:
For I was born a sinner--yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.
Ps 51:5

In that regard that is David speaking of his conception as sinful because his mother had an affair. Which is why the scriptures also speak of his brothers not accepting him because they knew that.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Give a little, take a little:
Adam was Created when YHWH WAS ONE.
As it is written in the Scripture YHWH IS ONE.

Yahweh is still one.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Come to think of it, Adam was one day old after evening and morning made one day.....

Adam was created on the sixth day, not the first.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

But he was not working on the Sabbath. THEY were saying He was. Performing a Mitzvah (healing someone) on Shabbat is not breaking Shabbat.

Mitzvah does not pertain to healing. Mitzvah pertains to the Jewish law of 613 commands.
Rapha is the Hebrew word for healing.

 

[parousia70]

In that regard that is David speaking of his conception as sinful because his mother had an affair. Which is why the scriptures also speak of his brothers not accepting him because they knew that.

I'll pray for you.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Should Christians rest on the Sabbath (saturday) and also rejoice on the Lords day (sunday) ?
I'd like to hear from both Sabbath keeping Christians and Sunday keeping Christians

Many (or some or few) Christians have never considered s&nday to be the Lord's Day, btw.

Should Christians rest on YHWH'S SABBATH ?
What did Y'SHUA do ?
Rejoice ?
Rejoice in YHWH ALWAYS , and again I say REJOICE ! (all the time, every day, every night)
"the strength of our JOY is our ongoing abiding in union with THE MESSIAH"

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

When you keep the Sabbath, you in principle are saying that the Messiah has not come, that the Old Covenant and Judaism are still in force, and that we are not in the Sabbath rest of Christ.

This seems to be your opinion and perhaps the opinion of some churches,
but
not what Scripture says and not what those ekklesia who abide in Y'SHUA think.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

I'll pray for you.

Thank you.
Doesn't change the facts of David in the Psalm.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Adam was created on the sixth day, not the first.

You didn't ask, and I didn't answer what day he was created on.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

You misunderstood, and perhaps I wasn't clear... everyone SINCE ADAM, had Adam's sin imputed upon him at Birth.

The "him" I referenced refers to the corporate "him" of everyone SINCE Adam, not Adam himself.
I figured that was self evident, but I guess not.

I've since edited the post for clarity.

But it's good to know you have no other objections to the points I made.

Imputed sin is a Catholic teaching. Please know that not every Christian accepts that teaching because it is not Biblical . Deuteronomy 24:16 tells us each one is responsible for their own sin. The sins of the father do not pass to their sons.
It would be a little ridiculous if God ordained that in the law for man but violated it as our Father when He created his human children and imputed sin upon them.

If newborns were born with sin upon them, Jesus would not have told his Disciples and others that in order to see the Kingdom of God we must become like little children.
According to your belief, that would be saying we must become sinners.

Jesus also said , "Let the children come to me. Don't stop them! For the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those who are like these children." Matthew 19:14.

According to your belief Jesus would there be saying the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to sinners.

 

[tall73]

What is your source for this? Somebody's "blog"?



Unless you provide examples, you're just blowing hot air.

That particular quote that bigo1984 provided is from the following:
A Doctrinal Catechism by Rev. Stephen Keenan.

http://biblelight.net/keenan.htm#173

The quote is found on page 174.

Now as you noted in your previous comments, this is not an official document from the Vatican, nor from the official Catechism of the church.

However, a proper source was already provided for you in post 212 that you can find on the Vatican website.

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...ords-day-sunday.7966382/page-11#post-70184778

I will repeat it below:

The closest I have seen to a Catholic statement that Sunday "replaces" Sabbath is found in Dies Domini, an apostolic letter by John Paul II.

https://w2.vatican.va/content/john-...uments/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini.html

He says it is more than a replacement, but a fulfillment. The link will take you directly to the English version of the Vatican site.


The fulfilment of the Sabbath


59. This aspect of the Christian Sunday shows in a special way how it is the fulfilment of the Old Testament Sabbath. On the Lord's Day, which — as we have already said — the Old Testament links to the work of creation (cf. Gn 2:1-3; Ex 20:8-11) and the Exodus (cf. Dt 5:12-15), the Christian is called to proclaim the new creation and the new covenant brought about in the Paschal Mystery of Christ. Far from being abolished, the celebration of creation becomes more profound within a Christocentric perspective, being seen in the light of the God's plan "to unite all things in [Christ], things in heaven and things on earth" (Eph 1:10). The remembrance of the liberation of the Exodus also assumes its full meaning as it becomes a remembrance of the universal redemption accomplished by Christ in his Death and Resurrection. More than a "replacement" for the Sabbath, therefore, Sunday is its fulfilment, and in a certain sense its extension and full expression in the ordered unfolding of the history of salvation, which reaches its culmination in Christ.


60. In this perspective, the biblical theology of the "Sabbath" can be recovered in full, without compromising the Christian character of Sunday. It is a theology which leads us ever anew and in unfailing awe to the mystery of the beginning, when the eternal Word of God, by a free decision of love, created the world from nothing. The work of creation was sealed by the blessing and consecration of the day on which God ceased "from all the work which he had done in creation" (Gn 2:3). This day of God's rest confers meaning upon time, which in the sequence of weeks assumes not only a chronological regularity but also, in a manner of speaking, a theological resonance. The constant return of the "shabbat" ensures that there is no risk of time being closed in upon itself, since, in welcoming God and his kairoi — the moments of his grace and his saving acts — time remains open to eternity.


61. As the seventh day blessed and consecrated by God, the "shabbat" concludes the whole work of creation, and is therefore immediately linked to the work of the sixth day when God made man "in his image and likeness" (cf. Gn 1:26). This very close connection between the "day of God" and the "day of man" did not escape the Fathers in their meditation on the biblical creation story. Saint Ambrose says in this regard: "Thanks, then, to the Lord our God who accomplished a work in which he might find rest. He made the heavens, but I do not read that he found rest there; he made the stars, the moon, the sun, and neither do I read that he found rest in them. I read instead that he made man and that then he rested, finding in man one to whom he could offer the forgiveness of sins". (106) Thus there will be for ever a direct link between the "day of God" and the "day of man". When the divine commandment declares: "Remember the Sabbath day in order to keep it holy" (Ex 20:8), the rest decreed in order to honour the day dedicated to God is not at all a burden imposed upon man, but rather an aid to help him to recognize his life-giving and liberating dependence upon the Creator, and at the same time his calling to cooperate in the Creator's work and to receive his grace. In honouring God's "rest", man fully discovers himself, and thus the Lord's Day bears the profound imprint of God's blessing (cf. Gn 2:3), by virtue of which, we might say, it is endowed in a way similar to the animals and to man himself, with a kind of "fruitfulness" (cf. Gn 1:22, 28). This "fruitfulness" is apparent above all in filling and, in a certain sense, "multiplying" time itself, deepening in men and women the joy of living and the desire to foster and communicate life.


62. It is the duty of Christians therefore to remember that, although the practices of the Jewish Sabbath are gone, surpassed as they are by the "fulfilment" which Sunday brings, the underlying reasons for keeping "the Lord's Day" holy — inscribed solemnly in the Ten Commandments — remain valid, though they need to be reinterpreted in the light of the theology and spirituality of Sunday: "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. Six days you shall labour, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. Then you shall do no work, you, or your son, or your daughter, or your servant, or your maid, or your ox, or your ass, or any of your beasts, or the foreigner within your gates, that your servant and maid may rest as well as you. You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God commanded that you keep the Sabbath day" (Dt 5:12-15). Here the Sabbath observance is closely linked with the liberation which God accomplished for his people.


63. Christ came to accomplish a new "exodus", to restore freedom to the oppressed. He performed many healings on the Sabbath (cf. Mt 12:9-14 and parallels), certainly not to violate the Lord's Day, but to reveal its full meaning: "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mk 2:27). Opposing the excessively legalistic interpretation of some of his contemporaries, and developing the true meaning of the biblical Sabbath, Jesus, as "Lord of the Sabbath" (Mk 2:28), restores to the Sabbath observance its liberating character, carefully safeguarding the rights of God and the rights of man. This is why Christians, called as they are to proclaim the liberation won by the blood of Christ, felt that they had the authority to transfer the meaning of the Sabbath to the day of the Resurrection. The Passover of Christ has in fact liberated man from a slavery more radical than any weighing upon an oppressed people — the slavery of sin, which alienates man from God, and alienates man from himself and from others, constantly sowing within history the seeds of evil and violence.


The last bolded section in particular deals with the authority question.