How can the grace of God be resisted by some yet received by others?

[Hammster]

The alternative is that both people, A and B are sinners for whom Christ died.

God offers salvation to both of them through the Gospel. That amounts to God's justice and mercy in action.

We know this is the biblical offer: 'The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance' (2 Pet 3:9 ESV).

Those who are damned by Calvinism's double-predestination do not receive justice from the God of compassion and impartiality (Acts 10:34-35).

Oz

So God favors those who are good enough or spiritual enough or smart enough to believe. That is still discrimination.

 

[Hammster]

Skala,

I know the OT well, but I also know the New Covenant is one of grace where Jesus died for ALL (1 John 2:2) and salvation is offered to all people.

You seem to be selective in your understanding of Noah. What does Genesis 6:5-8 (ESV) state?



It was the extent of human wickedness vs Noah who found favour with the Lord. It was not God who kicked out the righteous people and discriminated by choosing Noah over the others who found favour with God.

Why must you lie about me? 'I guess you've never cracked open your old testament'. You are up to your same old, same old disriminatory tricks against me again.

Oz

Noah received grace. It had nothing to do with him.

 

[Skala]

It's a bit hard to believe the reprobate would care much about anyone's justice.
Either way, to be made reprobate by Someone else's choice, to be created for nothing more than to suffer eternally, would be good cause for not being "ok".

I can assure you, in Calvinism, people are punished because of their sin, not for "lack of being chosen for mercy".

If you buy a new house, and the previous owner has painted it pink, it's not your fault it's pink. Someone else painted it. Your lack of painting it a new color isn't the cause of the house being pink. You could choose to paint it a new color if you wanted to, it's your choice. But it's not your fault it's pink to begin with.

God could choose to show mercy to someone who deserves hell, but he is not obligated to. It's his choice. Mercy cannot be owed or demanded. If he chooses to let a person perish into hell for their sins, he is perfectly justified in that decision.

 

[Skala]

I think there must be a reason God chose to only choose the Jews in the Old Testament. But I think I will only find out in heaven, because God does not explain why He chose to do that in the Bible.

Because God is fair, righteous and just, so I trust God that there is a fair, righteous and just reason.

Guess you think God is discriminatory. Thats too bad. Sounds like you are a Calvinist who thinks God predestines evil and the fall of mankind. We can spot you guys a mile away with your words that lack respect for God.

Trust me, you don't know anything about Calvinism. Only what you've heard other anti-Calvinists inaccurately say.

 

[Skala]

The alternative is that both people, A and B are sinners for whom Christ died.

God offers salvation to both of them through the Gospel. That amounts to God's justice and mercy in action.

We know this is the biblical offer: 'The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance' (2 Pet 3:9 ESV).

Those who are damned by Calvinism's double-predestination do not receive justice from the God of compassion and impartiality (Acts 10:34-35).

Oz

Oz, why are you misquoting the Bible? [Staff edit]

You're doing the same thing with Acts 10:34-35

The verse does not aim to teach that God never shows favor for one person over another (In fact, you made this exact claim a few posts ago when you mentioned how God favored Noah over everyone else. Talk about refuting yourself! )

If you'd read the verse, you can see it is simply saying God does not treat two believers differently because of their nationality. He treats both people the same, no matter what country they are from:

Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism
35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.

God does not show favoritism for person A who fears him who is from China over person B who fears Him and is from Mexico. He accepts them both.

Peter said this because of the revelation that God has granted repentance to the Gentiles as well as the Jews. So Peter is acknowledging that God accepts both kinds of people: The Gentile who fears him and does what is right, and the Jew who fears him and does what is right.

What the verse actually says and teaches is quite different than what your eisegesis is trying to force into it.

 

[Skala]

Noah received grace. It had nothing to do with him.

The Hebrew word for "favor" in the part that says "Noah found favor with the Lord", means "grace":

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/2580.htm

People like Oz believe that Gen 6:8 is teaching that Noah was inherently more righteous than everyone else, that's why God spared him.
Isn't that called salvation by works? Or salvation by righteousness?

I thought Christianity believed in salvation by grace.

I digress.

 

[Hammster]

The Hebrew word for "favor" in the part that says "Noah found favor with the Lord", means "grace":

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/2580.htm

People like Oz believe that Gen 6:8 is teaching that Noah was inherently more righteous than everyone else, that's why God spared him.
Isn't that called salvation by works? Or salvation by righteousness?

I thought Christianity believed in salvation by grace.

I digress.

In their view, God's grace is always powerless to save unless man allows it. And it's powerless to keep man saved unless man agrees to let Him.

 

[Skala]

In their view, God's grace is always powerless to save unless man allows it. And it's powerless to keep man saved unless man agrees to let Him.

it's sad really.

Thankfully I believe in a God who never fails to save. Not even a single time.
My God has a 100% success rate.

 

[EmSw]

The Hebrew word for "favor" in the part that says "Noah found favor with the Lord", means "grace":

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/2580.htm

People like Oz believe that Gen 6:8 is teaching that Noah was inherently more righteous than everyone else, that's why God spared him.
Isn't that called salvation by works? Or salvation by righteousness?

I thought Christianity believed in salvation by grace.

I digress.

How did Noah find grace with God?

Did you find grace with God? How did you do it?

 

[EmSw]

it's sad really.

Thankfully I believe in a God who never fails to save. Not even a single time.
My God has a 100% success rate.

He failed to save Judas, no matter how you spin it. See if you can respond without making God a respecter of persons.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Can you give some examples from scripture to support this?

Sure.

Deuteronomy 32:3-5
3“For I proclaim the name of the LORD;
Ascribe greatness to our God!

4“The Rock! His work is perfect,
For all His ways are just;
A God of faithfulness and without injustice,
Righteous and upright is He.

5“They have acted corruptly toward Him,
They are not His children, because of their defect;
But are a perverse and crooked generation.

Isaiah 30:18
Therefore the LORD longs to be gracious to you, And therefore He waits on high to have compassion on you For the LORD is a God of justice; How blessed are all those who long for Him.

Job 34:12
"Surely, God will not act wickedly, And the Almighty will not pervert justice.

Psalm 9:7-8
But the LORD abides forever; He has established His throne for judgment, And He will judge the world in righteousness; He will execute judgment for the peoples with equity.

Genesis 18:25
"Far be it from You to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked are treated alike. Far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal justly?"

Ezekiel 18:25
"Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not right ' Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right?

Ezekiel 18:29
"But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right?

Ezekiel 33:17
"Yet your fellow citizens say, 'The way of the Lord is not right,' when it is their own way that is not right.

Jeremiah 9:24
but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things," declares the LORD.

Job 34:12
"Surely, God will not act wickedly, And the Almighty will not pervert justice.

.
There are more, but these should suffice.

 

[EmSw]

In their view, God's grace is always powerless to save unless man allows it. And it's powerless to keep man saved unless man agrees to let Him.

Hammster, have you allowed God to save you? Or, are you fighting it?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I am in agreement with Geralt that there are no scriptures that say: “Babies are hell bound” or anything like that, but Geralt gives scripture that say we have all sinned and are destined for God’s wrath. So the question is when does this transition happen and what happened to cause us to know a nonbeliever is hell bound? You can help Geralt with the answer if you know.

I said: “My understanding of God’s justice, fairness, and Love would compel God to bring those that have not sinned accountably to heaven, they are not “saved”, but are in a safe condition. People are not held accountable for Adam and Eve’s sin, but after they do sin as mature adults they are held accountable and are hell bound.”

Paul says: Ro. 5: 12 Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned

Paul did not say “because Adam and Eve sinned”, but all men.

Knowledge of Good and Evil is passed down from Adam and Eve, but is knowledge itself bad?

There are two kinds of death that resulted from the fall; a physical death and a spiritual death because they were no longer able to commune with God.

If you think I am going to say something about babies going to hell or not going to hell, you are wrong. I speak what is in God's Word, not my own summations or opinion.

 

[Hammster]

Sure.

Deuteronomy 32:3-5
3“For I proclaim the name of the LORD;
Ascribe greatness to our God!

4“The Rock! His work is perfect,
For all His ways are just;
A God of faithfulness and without injustice,
Righteous and upright is He.

5“They have acted corruptly toward Him,
They are not His children, because of their defect;
But are a perverse and crooked generation.

Isaiah 30:18
Therefore the LORD longs to be gracious to you, And therefore He waits on high to have compassion on you For the LORD is a God of justice; How blessed are all those who long for Him.

Job 34:12
"Surely, God will not act wickedly, And the Almighty will not pervert justice.

Psalm 9:7-8
But the LORD abides forever; He has established His throne for judgment, And He will judge the world in righteousness; He will execute judgment for the peoples with equity.

Genesis 18:25
"Far be it from You to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked are treated alike. Far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal justly?"

Ezekiel 18:25
"Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not right ' Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right?

Ezekiel 18:29
"But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right?

Ezekiel 33:17
"Yet your fellow citizens say, 'The way of the Lord is not right,' when it is their own way that is not right.

Jeremiah 9:24
but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things," declares the LORD.

Job 34:12
"Surely, God will not act wickedly, And the Almighty will not pervert justice.

.
There are more, but these should suffice.

None of those support your assertion that God is obligated to treat everyone the same.

 

[Hammster]

Hammster, have you allowed God to save you? Or, are you fighting it?

Non sequitur. (I see nothing changes around here)

 

[EmSw]

Non sequitur. (I see nothing changes around here)

What a reply! Do you have an answer, or you going to play games as before. You're right, nothing changes around here.

 

[ToBeLoved]

None of those support your assertion that God is obligated to treat everyone the same.

Did I say that?

This is what I said:

ToBeLoved said: ↑

I think there must be a reason God chose to only choose the Jews in the Old Testament. But I think I will only find out in heaven, because God does not explain why He chose to do that in the Bible.

Because God is fair, righteous and just, so I trust God that there is a fair, righteous and just reason.

Guess you think God is discriminatory. Thats too bad. Sounds like you are a Calvinist who thinks God predestines evil and the fall of mankind. We can spot you guys a mile away with your words that lack respect for God.


God can ONLY give us good things. God cannot predestine evil. Evil is not in the nature of God.

 

[Hammster]

What a reply! Do you have an answer, or you going to play games as before. You're right, nothing changes around here.

I'll address any points you make on the subject.

 

[Hammster]

Did I say that?

This is what I said:

ToBeLoved said: ↑

I think there must be a reason God chose to only choose the Jews in the Old Testament. But I think I will only find out in heaven, because God does not explain why He chose to do that in the Bible.

Because God is fair, righteous and just, so I trust God that there is a fair, righteous and just reason.

Guess you think God is discriminatory. Thats too bad. Sounds like you are a Calvinist who thinks God predestines evil and the fall of mankind. We can spot you guys a mile away with your words that lack respect for God.


God can ONLY give us good things. God cannot predestine evil. Evil is not in the nature of God.

Do you believe that for God to be good, He must be fair in trying to save everyone equally?

 

[Hammster]

God can ONLY give us good things. God cannot predestine evil. Evil is not in the nature of God.

Was it evil to kill an innocent man?