How can the grace of God be resisted by some yet received by others?

[bling]

How you can you 'interprete' when there is no reference? You would be better of asking this question to a mystic as they are experts in storytelling. You could also simply just state your own position and let others affirm or deny it.

You say the Bible does not teach babies are hell bound, but at some point (age/action) people are hell bound, so I am asking for the “point” when the Bible does teach a person transitions from us not knowing they are hell bound from scripture to knowing they are hell bound from scripture?

My understanding of God’s justice, fairness, and Love would compel God to bring those that have not sinned accountably to heaven, they are not “saved”, but are in a safe condition. People are not held accountable for Adam and Eve’s sin, but after they do sin as mature adults they are held accountable and are hell bound.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You say the Bible does not teach babies are hell bound, but at some point (age/action) people are hell bound, so I am asking for the “point” when the Bible does teach a person transitions from us not knowing they are hell bound from scripture to knowing they are hell bound from scripture?

My understanding of God’s justice, fairness, and Love would compel God to bring those that have not sinned accountably to heaven, they are not “saved”, but are in a safe condition. People are not held accountable for Adam and Eve’s sin, but after they do sin as mature adults they are held accountable and are hell bound.

Why are you asking someone to find a verse that does not say.

Shouldn't you be the one supporting your doctrine with scripture? You are turning the tables now. You need to support your words or admit they are opinion.

There is nothing bad about us learning to Biblically support each of our beliefs. God uses some people that come into our lives to correct us (all of us, not just you)

 

[Geralt]

What you believe is convenient but unfortunately not supported by scripture.

Everyone is made a sinner because of the sin of one man. Romans 5:18-19

You say the Bible does not teach babies are hell bound, but at some point (age/action) people are hell bound, so I am asking for the “point” when the Bible does teach a person transitions from us not knowing they are hell bound from scripture to knowing they are hell bound from scripture?

My understanding of God’s justice, fairness, and Love would compel God to bring those that have not sinned accountably to heaven, they are not “saved”, but are in a safe condition. People are not held accountable for Adam and Eve’s sin, but after they do sin as mature adults they are held accountable and are hell bound.

 

[Skala]

I'm not OK with your labelling God as discriminatory and thus a practitioner of injustice. That is very telling!

Both men A and B are sinners who deserve hell

God sends man A to hell = justice
God sends man B to heaven = mercy

Nobody receives injustice at the hands of God, therefore I have refuted your false assertion that I ever posited that God acts unjustly. I look forward to when you humbly accept correction and apologize for putting false words in my mouth.

 

[Skala]

However, if your view is the choosing of one person over another by the absolute predestination (decree) of God, then it's discrimination by God, which is committing injustice.

Oz

Mercy is not injustice

And God discriminates all the time

I guess you've never cracked open your old testament. You might want to dust off your bible and get busy, then.

God chose Israel alone out of all the nations of the earth = discrimination

God rescued Noah's family alone out of all the families on earth and let the rest drown = discrimination

God lets believers into heaven, but not unbelievers = discrimination

 

[EmSw]

What you believe is convenient but unfortunately not supported by scripture.

Everyone is made a sinner because of the sin of one man. Romans 5:18-19

It says 'MANY' were made sinners, not all.

 

[EmSw]

Both men A and B are sinners who deserve hell

God sends man A to hell = justice
God sends man B to heaven = mercy

Nobody receives injustice at the hands of God, therefore I have refuted your false assertion that I ever posited that God acts unjustly. I look forward to when you humbly accept correction and apologize for putting false words in my mouth.

Again, we see God is the lottery master, and man hopes he gets picked.

 

[Geralt]

Reading v19 ignoring v18? Nah this answer is not for you or a respond to your question.

It says 'MANY' were made sinners, not all.

 

[EmSw]

Reading v19 ignoring v18? Nah this answer is not for you or a respond to your question.

And you read verse 18 and ignore 19.

 

[bottomofsandal]

Mercy is not injustice

And God discriminates all the time

I guess you've never cracked open your old testament. You might want to dust off your bible and get busy, then.

God chose Israel alone out of all the nations of the earth = discrimination

God rescued Noah's family alone out of all the families on earth and let the rest drown = discrimination

God lets believers into heaven, but not unbelievers = discrimination

Greetings brother...long time no see!

You have nicely delineated God's work. It happened, it is truth.
This is irrefutably, exactly what God did, it cannot be argued.

God lifts some up and tears others down.
God blesses some, while cursing others.
Every man in The Body is given different gifts.

Yet, we have some angry men shaking their fists at God's governance of His universe!
It is remarkable that men demand a romantic, happy ending to God's work on the earth.

Since these men are capable of holy umbrage and cackle-raising at God's lack of "fairness",
they feel that God would be outraged as well and never allow any appearance of impropriety.
As you illustrated, God has a long history of choosing and doing as He sees fit, always pleasing Himself.

 

[fhansen]

Are you saying you wouldn't be ok with God's justice? That is very telling.

It's a bit hard to believe the reprobate would care much about anyone's justice.
Either way, to be made reprobate by Someone else's choice, to be created for nothing more than to suffer eternally, would be good cause for not being "ok".

 

[ToBeLoved]

Mercy is not injustice

And God discriminates all the time

I guess you've never cracked open your old testament. You might want to dust off your bible and get busy, then.

God chose Israel alone out of all the nations of the earth = discrimination

God rescued Noah's family alone out of all the families on earth and let the rest drown = discrimination

God lets believers into heaven, but not unbelievers = discrimination

I think there must be a reason God chose to only choose the Jews in the Old Testament. But I think I will only find out in heaven, because God does not explain why He chose to do that in the Bible.

Because God is fair, righteous and just, so I trust God that there is a fair, righteous and just reason.

Guess you think God is discriminatory. Thats too bad. Sounds like you are a Calvinist who thinks God predestines evil and the fall of mankind. We can spot you guys a mile away with your words that lack respect for God.

 

[Geralt]

Discrimination is simply looking at it in man's viewpoint assuming God is at the same nature or privilege as man. The word doesnt make sense however if God is creator. It is unfortunate that lots of people try to formulate their beliefs based on the sense of fairness and equality humanizing God.

I think there must be a reason God chose to only choose the Jews in the Old Testament. But I think I will only find out in heaven, because God does not explain why He chose to do that in the Bible.

Because God is fair, righteous and just, so I trust God that there is a fair, righteous and just reason.

Guess you think God is discriminatory. Thats too bad. Sounds like you are a Calvinist who thinks God predestines evil and the fall of mankind. We can spot you guys a mile away with your words that lack respect for God.

 

[Hammster]

Because God is fair,

Can you give some examples from scripture to support this?

 

[OzSpen]

deleted

 

[OzSpen]

Deep breath everyone (including me) step away from the keyboard for 5 minutes. We all need a time-out.

ToBeLoved,

Then we need to examine our views on soteriology in the light of Acts 10:34-35 (ESV), '34So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, 35but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him' (emphasis added).

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Both men A and B are sinners who deserve hell

God sends man A to hell = justice
God sends man B to heaven = mercy

Nobody receives injustice at the hands of God, therefore I have refuted your false assertion that I ever posited that God acts unjustly. I look forward to when you humbly accept correction and apologize for putting false words in my mouth.

The alternative is that both people, A and B are sinners for whom Christ died.

God offers salvation to both of them through the Gospel. That amounts to God's justice and mercy in action.

We know this is the biblical offer: 'The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance' (2 Pet 3:9 ESV).

Those who are damned by Calvinism's double-predestination do not receive justice from the God of compassion and impartiality (Acts 10:34-35).

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Mercy is not injustice

And God discriminates all the time

I guess you've never cracked open your old testament. You might want to dust off your bible and get busy, then.

God chose Israel alone out of all the nations of the earth = discrimination

God rescued Noah's family alone out of all the families on earth and let the rest drown = discrimination

God lets believers into heaven, but not unbelievers = discrimination

Skala,

I know the OT well, but I also know the New Covenant is one of grace where Jesus died for ALL (1 John 2:2) and salvation is offered to all people.

You seem to be selective in your understanding of Noah. What does Genesis 6:5-8 (ESV) state?

5 The Lord observed the extent of human wickedness on the earth, and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil. 6 So the Lord was sorry he had ever made them and put them on the earth. It broke his heart. 7 And the Lord said, “I will wipe this human race I have created from the face of the earth. Yes, and I will destroy every living thing—all the people, the large animals, the small animals that scurry along the ground, and even the birds of the sky. I am sorry I ever made them.” 8 But Noah found favor with the Lord.

It was the extent of human wickedness vs Noah who found favour with the Lord. It was not God who kicked out the righteous people and discriminated by choosing Noah over the others who found favour with God.

Why must you lie about me? 'I guess you've never cracked open your old testament'. You are up to your same old, same old disriminatory tricks against me again.

Oz

 

[sdowney717]

Skala,

I know the OT well, but I also know the New Covenant is one of grace where Jesus died for ALL (1 John 2:2) and salvation is offered to all people.

You seem to be selective in your understanding of Noah. What does Genesis 6:5-8 (ESV) state?



It was the extent of human wickedness vs Noah who found favour with the Lord. It was not God who kicked out the righteous people and discriminated by choosing Noah over the others who found favour with God.

Why must you lie about me? 'I guess you've never cracked open your old testament'. You are up to your same old, same old disriminatory tricks against me again.

Oz

6:8 But Noah. See Rom. 11:3–6.

found favor. God’s “grace” is always His unmerited favor, and Noah’s integrity could not earn God’s acceptance (Rom. 3:10–12). God saved Noah, as He saves us, as an unconditional gift, which Christ would later purchase with His own blood. Even so, Noah seems to be a type of Christ: just as Noah represented his family, so Christ represents the whole family of God.

"8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord."
and
"9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God"

But there are no perfect people, God preserved Noah from being contaminated with the Nephilim, and also all his generations, so then his line.

11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.

All flesh was corrupted and had been satanically changed and so then all flesh was destroyed that was on the earth, except Noah and some animals God preserved.

 

[bling]

Why are you asking someone to find a verse that does not say.

Shouldn't you be the one supporting your doctrine with scripture? You are turning the tables now. You need to support your words or admit they are opinion.

There is nothing bad about us learning to Biblically support each of our beliefs. God uses some people that come into our lives to correct us (all of us, not just you)

I am in agreement with Geralt that there are no scriptures that say: “Babies are hell bound” or anything like that, but Geralt gives scripture that say we have all sinned and are destined for God’s wrath. So the question is when does this transition happen and what happened to cause us to know a nonbeliever is hell bound? You can help Geralt with the answer if you know.

I said: “My understanding of God’s justice, fairness, and Love would compel God to bring those that have not sinned accountably to heaven, they are not “saved”, but are in a safe condition. People are not held accountable for Adam and Eve’s sin, but after they do sin as mature adults they are held accountable and are hell bound.”

Paul says: Ro. 5: 12 Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned

Paul did not say “because Adam and Eve sinned”, but all men.

Knowledge of Good and Evil is passed down from Adam and Eve, but is knowledge itself bad?