the apocalypse

[Revealing Times]

In revelation, I am leaning toward non-literal 7 hills.

With Revelation, it is a dance done between symbolic and literal, and as readers we have to navigate that dance correctly. It's also important to know all symbolism in the bible, always references something which is totally real spiritually or physically. The symbolism just serves as a way to describe a real thing.

For example, we might think "many waters" refers to oceans:
One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters. - Revelation 17:1

But later we learn what the many waters are:

Then the angel said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. - Revelation 17:15

So then, if water is a non-literal water, referencing the nations of the world then:

This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. - Revelation 17:19

But just like the water she was sitting on, these hills are non-literal hills but symbolic hills. The hills are very likely referencing symbolic hills found throughout the OT:

Exactly, but not only are we told what the Waters are in Rev. 17 by the Angel, we are told that the Seven Mountains are Seven Rulers, five have fallen, one is, and one is yet to come.

 

[ewq1938]

Exactly, but not only are we told what the Waters are in Rev. 17 by the Angel, we are told that the Seven Mountains are Seven Rulers, five have fallen, one is, and one is yet to come.

If five had fallen and one was falling why do we see a beast with all 7 heads/mountains in tact in Rev 13? They are in tact all the way until the beast is defeated in Rev 19. % Heads hadn't fallen, not another falling in Johns time.


The reason is the 7 mountains/heads of the beast are not the same 7-8 past and future kings mentioned in Rev 17.

 

[Revealing Times]

If it is not still a mystery, tell me why even here on this thread no one agrees? Yes, John did write that the woman was "that great city." But some here think a city refers to false religion around the world! The intent of the Author is that JERUSALEM is "that great city." John told us this is a previous chapter. They are not thinking about how the entire world will be deceived from Jerusalem. By the way, Babylon in Revelation, the wh**e (harlot), Mystery Babylon the great, etc is all speaking of the SAME THING: the city of Jerusalem while the Beast and False prophet are there deceiving the entire world.

Because it seems no one is reading the Words that actually are right there in the Bible. I didn't see it for years, but it is right there in front of our eyes.

Rev. 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. ( Greek word thauma 2295 meaning Great Wonder or to MARVEL it doesn't mean admired.) 7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel ? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. {{ Do you catch this ? The Angel Is telling John I will TELL YOU THE MYSTERY OF THE Woman and the Beast. }}

How can you or anyone say this is still a Mystery, when the Angel Reveals the Mystery ? The Greek Word used for Mystery means a Secret by Gods Silence. Well the Angel breaks that Silence and Reveals the Mystery.

THE MYSTERY/SECRET OF THE BEAST EXPLAINED BY THE ANGEL !!

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

{{ So the Angel takes away the SECRET/MYSTERY, and tells us the Beast is Seven Kingdoms, five have fallen one is, and one is yet to come. (Through thinking, we understood that Babylon, Persia, Greece had fallen, and were written about in Daniel, from his time on/point of view. And we understood Daniel spoke of Rome in Prophecy, and Rome was the ONE THAT IS as Johns time, so then we had to figure out who the other three were. We knew through Daniel that at the END TIMES another Kingdom would Arise out of the Fourth Beast, so Revived Rome/Anti-Christ and 10 Kings will arise and conquer/enslave Israel. So now we have FIVE of the Kingdoms, who are the other TWO ? Well the Five have one thing in common, they all conquered or enslaved Israel, so now we can understand who the last TWO ARE, Egypt and Assyria, thereby you have every nation that ever Conquered or enslaved Israel, so the Angel TOLD US WHO THE BEAST WAS !! But the Angel tells us MORE, the Angel tells us the Seventh King when he comes will only rule a short time (one hour) and the Beast that was, is not, yet is and comes out of perdition (Satan/Apollyon) will become the 8th Kings or He will POSSESS the Seventh King and was of all Seven. AND.......The Ten Horns you saw are Ten Kings, they have no Kingdom as yet, but will receive power for ONE HOUR ( One Hour here proves Babylon is not LITERALLY DESTROYED in One Hour) with the Beast. They have one Mind and will give their powers and Kingdoms to the Beast. }}

MYSTERY/SECRET REVEALED !!!


MYSTERY/SECRET OF THE HARLOT REVEALED BELOW

Rev. 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

{{ What is Gods will ? Rev. 17:1 says COME SEE THE JUDGMENT OF THE HARLOT !! So God is going to use the Kings and Anti-Christ to bring His will to pass. Who is the Harlot ? WHAT IS THE MYSTERY/SECRET ? She is Many Nations, Peoples, Tongues and Multitudes, so she is ALL OVER, She is WORLDWIDE !! She is a Harlot, and she is DESTROYED BY THE BEAST and his Kings. So something that is in every nation, is destroyed by the Kings and the Beast. WHAT COULD IT POSSIBLE BE ? LOGIC IS A MUST !!! What does the Anti-Christ do at the end ? He places an Image of himself in Gods Temple and Demands all the world to worship him as GOD or Die !!! So what does this tell you ? That he is going to wipe out ALL OTHER GODS or Religions !!! The Harlot, with Blood on her hands is FALSE RELIGION. She is JUDGED BY GOD, He uses the Kings to do His will. The ANGEL REVEAL THE MYSTERY/SECRET. But were we listening ?}}

MYSTERY/SECRET REVEALED.

Only the Vision Had the word MYSTERY on the Harlots Forehead. Once the Angel explains the Mystery, why are we still stumped ? Because we are not reading the plain text.

 

[Revealing Times]

If five had fallen and one was falling why do we see a beast with all 7 heads/mountains in tact in Rev 13? They are in tact all the way until the beast is defeated in Rev 19. % Heads hadn't fallen, not another falling in Johns time.


The reason is the 7 mountains/heads of the beast are not the same 7-8 past and future kings mentioned in Rev 17.

I explained this in a post I just posted in depth. I will touch on this lightly, but above is the other post.

Rev. 13 is in the Future from Johns perspective. He saw all Seven of them that will rule and the 8th King which is Satan/Apollyon which possesses the Anti-Christ at the 3 1/2 year or 42 month mark. So Five had fallen, one is, and one is yet to come. That was only the Beast explaining what the Beast John saw was. In other words he saw every Kingdom that ever will be which comes against Israel. Daniel saw only Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and Revived Rome, but the Statue represents the same thing as the Seven Headed Beast, except Daniel was not even told about Egypt and Assyria.

The Beast in Rev. 13 has the Bear, Lion and Leopard as part of the Beast that John sees. Rev. 13 and 17 are the exact same Beast with Seven Heads and Ten Horns.

God Bless.

 

[ewq1938]

My point is at no time do we see 6 of the 7 heads ever fall. All 7 heads remain in tact until the beast itself is fully destroyed.

So the 5 have fallen one is falling make no sense in relation to the beasts 7 heads because 5 had not fallen and one didn't fall in Johns time.

I explained this in a post I just posted in depth. I will touch on this lightly, but above is the other post.

Rev. 13 is in the Future from Johns perspective. He saw all Seven of them that will rule and the 8th King which is Satan/Apollyon which possesses the Anti-Christ at the 3 1/2 year or 42 month mark. So Five had fallen, one is, and one is yet to come. That was only the Beast explaining what the Beast John saw was. In other words he saw every Kingdom that ever will be which comes against Israel. Daniel saw only Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and Revived Rome, but the Statue represents the same thing as the Seven Headed Beast, except Daniel was not even told about Egypt and Assyria.

The Beast in Rev. 13 has the Bear, Lion and Leopard as part of the Beast that John sees. Rev. 13 and 17 are the exact same Beast with Seven Heads and Ten Horns.

God Bless.

 

[Revealing Times]

My point is at no time do we see 6 of the 7 heads ever fall. All 7 heads remain in tact until the beast itself is fully destroyed.

So the 5 have fallen one is falling make no sense in relation to the beasts 7 heads because 5 had not fallen and one didn't fall in Johns time.

Rome has Fallen. It hasn't been a world power in years. It has not held Israel in captivity in years. Until the Seventh Kingdom conquers Israel, this Kingdom will not be a part of the Beast either. The Sixth Kingdom over Israel has passed. The Seventh Kingdom that will rule over Israel is Future, Rev. 13 is Future, after the Rapture.

In other words the mystery is that Egypt enslaved Israel, Assyria conquered and enslaved Israel, Babylon conquered and led Israel into captivity, Persia ruled over Israel, Greece conquered and enslaved Israel, as did Rome. The Last of the Seven Heads of the Beast could not have even come into existence until Israel became a Nation again, you can not conquer what doesn't exist. The Anti-Christ and 10 Kings will Conquer Israel, who flees to the Wilderness and is protected by God.

All of this prophecy is about Israel.

 

[ewq1938]

Rome has Fallen. It hasn't been a world power in years.

Yes but not a single head on the Rev 13:1 beast has fallen.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

If 6 had already fallen the verse would have to read this way:

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having 1 head and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

 

[Revealing Times]

Yes but not a single head on the Rev 13:1 beast has fallen.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

If 6 had already fallen the verse would have to read this way:

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having 1 head and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

No it wouldn't, Jesus wants everyone that's a Christian to understand that all of these Seven Heads represent Satan, who is alive and well, remember in Rev. 17, it says he is the 8th King but is if the Seven, each Kingdom is in essence a represents Satan. Satan is the God of this world, these Heads all conquered Israel. When Daniel shows Nebuchadnezzar what the dream meant about the Image of Gold, Silver, Brass, Iron and Iron mixed with Clay, the Image was smashed by the Rock (Jesus) hewn out of the Mountain. We did not see the Gold head, the Silver and Brass disappear, but those Kingdoms have fallen by the end time vision. The Seven Headed Beast in Rev. 17 is the same beast as in Rev. 13.

Those Six Heads have a history, they were real. John shows the very same Beasts that Daniel spoke of, the had the body of a Leopard, the feet of a bear and the head of a loin. I mean its telling you its the same Beasts that Daniel prophesied about.

 

[ewq1938]

I repeat: Yes but not a single head on the Rev 13:1 beast has fallen.

That disproves your interpretation.

No it wouldn't, Jesus wants everyone that's a Christian to understand that all of these Seven Heads represent Satan, who is alive and well, remember in Rev. 17, it says he is the 8th King but is if the Seven, each Kingdom is in essence a represents Satan. Satan is the God of this world, these Heads all conquered Israel. When Daniel shows Nebuchadnezzar what the dream meant about the Image of Gold, Silver, Brass, Iron and Iron mixed with Clay, the Image was smashed by the Rock (Jesus) hewn out of the Mountain. We did not see the Gold head, the Silver and Brass disappear, but those Kingdoms have fallen by the end time vision. The Seven Headed Beast in Rev. 17 is the same beast as in Rev. 13.

Those Six Heads have a history, they were real. John shows the very same Beasts that Daniel spoke of, the had the body of a Leopard, the feet of a bear and the head of a loin. I mean its telling you its the same Beasts that Daniel prophesied about.

 

[Revealing Times]

I repeat: Yes but not a single head on the Rev 13:1 beast has fallen.

That disproves your interpretation.

We will just agree to disagree. God Bless. No use in us repeating the same thing over and over.

 

[Bible2+]

Revealing Times said in post 328:

Jesus wants everyone that's a Christian to understand that all of these Seven Heads represent Satan, who is alive and well, remember in Rev. 17, it says he is the 8th King but is if the Seven, each Kingdom is in essence a represents Satan.

Note that the beast in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1-2, Revelation 17:3) is a different entity than Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:3,9). For the beast and the dragon are shown to be separate in Revelation 13:2,4, Revelation 16:13, and Revelation 19:20 to 20:3. Also, Satan has his crowns on his 7 heads (Revelation 12:3,9), while the beast has its crowns on its 10 horns (Revelation 13:1).

In Revelation 12:3, the 7 heads are Satan's literal heads in his true, serpentine-dragon form (Revelation 12:9), while the 7 heads of the symbolic leopard-like beast in Revelation 13:1-2 and Revelation 17:3 are the symbolic heads of the kingdom of Satan as he has made it in his 7-headed image down through the ages, during 7 consecutive empires (Revelation 17:9-10).

That is, the 7 heads of Revelation's "beast" in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1, Revelation 17:3) represent 7 different empires (Revelation 17:9-10): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and (possibly) Islam. The first 5 had fallen by the time of John the apostle in the 1st century AD: "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10, Revelation 1:1b-2). The 6th (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Revelation 17:10). The 7th (possibly Islam) had not come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Revelation 17:10). The empire of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will be a different, still-future, 8th head (Revelation 17:11), which will be a revival of one of the 5 empires which had fallen by the time of John (Revelation 17:8,10-11). It will be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The Antichrist will transform the present-day, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq) into the capital of his world empire, only to see his city of Babylon ultimately destroyed at Jesus' 2nd coming (Isaiah 13).

Before the 2nd coming, when the world is brought into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist, during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist will build their main temple in the city of Babylon. For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zechariah 5:8,11), and the Antichrist is called "that Wicked" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Also, the dragon has been the god worshipped in the city of Babylon since ancient times.

The Antichrist may claim to be Nebuchadnezzar returned, and so reinstitute the system which Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Daniel 3, Revelation 13:15). The Antichrist may also claim to be, at the same time, the return of Nimrod (the founder of Babylon: Genesis 10:8-10), and Hammurabi, and Asoka, and other famous rulers of the past. For he may claim that he has had many different "past lives" as various "enlightened" rulers.

Besides building a main temple in Babylon, the Antichrist will also sit (at least one time) in a future, 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and declare himself God there (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). The Antichrist could also sit (at least one time) in other religions' holiest shrines, and declare himself to be God there as well. For example, he could also sit in Islam's Kaaba in Mecca, in the Sikhs' Golden Temple in Amritsar, in Catholicism's St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, etc.

 

[Douggg]

Yes but not a single head on the Rev 13:1 beast has fallen.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

If 6 had already fallen the verse would have to read this way:

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having 1 head and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

ewq, Revelation 17, the seven heads represents seven mountains, the place where the woman sits. The 7 kings are kings associated with that place. It is Rome, the place, where the woman is. The 7 kings are the Julio Claudians. The first was Julius Caesar and after him, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero - number 6, that was ruling at the time of John. The previous 5 were dead, fallen.

It is not the number of heads, but the crowns on the heads, that helps with the mystery. The prophecy of the 7 kings (not kingdoms, it is only one kingdom, the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7) at the time of John, 1st century, when the 6th king was ruling, was incomplete. King 7 has not yet come. So there are no crowns on the heads of the scarlet beast in Revelation 17 - just 6 of the kings have come..

So what chapter are the crowns on the heads? It is in Revelation 12. Which the 7 heads have crowns - which indicates the fulfillment of the prophecy of the 7 kings. King 7 has come to power is what it is telling us. So we have to look at the chapter to figure out when.

Upon examining that chapter, the first 5 verses are a history lesson, to identify the woman in the rest of the chapter as being Israel. The rest is end times, the last 7 years before Jesus returns.

In Revelation 12:6 is the 1260 days, followed by the time, times, half times in Revelation 12:14. Combined they make 7 years - which is the last week (7 years) of the 70th week of Daniel 9. So King 7 has come to power with the 7 years in front of him.

Now we can look at Chapter 13 - no crowns on the heads. What happened! One of the heads was mortally wounded but come back to life. Here's the explanation.

King 7, the one in Revelation 12 who came to power fulfilling the prophecy of the 7 kings with 7 years in front of him - has been killed, with 42 months left in the 7 years. That ends the prophecy of the 7 kings. So no crowns on the heads in that chapter.

But he comes back to life - but not as the 7th king of the fourth empire, he is now the eighth king, and is called the beast - because he is now possessed by the unclean spirit that was in the bottomless pit even back in John's Day - which has comes out of bottomless pit. We aren't told how that unclear spirit is allowed out, but we do know that he ascends out of the bottomless pit.

So that the explanation of the 7 kings. The understanding is in the crowns at the three different points in time.
1st century, Revelation 17. At the beginning of the 7 years, Revelation 12. At the beginning of the last 42 months, Revelation 13.

 

[ewq1938]

ewq, Revelation 17, the seven heads represents seven mountains, the place where the woman sits. The 7 kings are kings associated with that place.

Actually those particular 7 kings are not associated with the woman or the beast or the beast's 7 heads/mountains.

No one has answered the content of my posts so far.

7 heads/mountains cannot exist and yet have 6 not exist at the same time.

Either the Rev 13:1 beast has 7 in tact NOT FALLEN heads or it has one head with 6 that fell.

 

[Douggg]

My point is at no time do we see 6 of the 7 heads ever fall. All 7 heads remain in tact until the beast itself is fully destroyed.

exactly. But the last 42 months, those heads, all 7, .... they have no crowns on them.

 

[Douggg]

Actually those particular 7 kings are not associated with the woman or the beast or the beast's 7 heads/mountains.

No one has answered the content of my posts so far.

7 heads/mountains cannot exist and yet have 6 not exist at the same time.

Either the Rev 13:1 beast has 7 in tact NOT FALLEN heads or it has one head with 6 that fell.

The heads represent two different things is the answer.

One of the things is the place where the woman is - Rome, the city of the 7 hills. The 7 mountains, hills, exist simply because it is geographic feature

The other thing is 7 kings - not 7 kingdoms. Five of those kings were dead at the time of John. One was ruling. And the seventh yet to come - since the sixth was ruling. The seven kings are associated with the place - not the woman.

I have not been reading through this thread. So I am not aware of your post content.

 

[Douggg]

The reason is the 7 mountains/heads of the beast are not the same 7-8 past and future kings mentioned in Rev 17.

The reason is the 7 mountains/heads of the beast [<<<<which chapter are you referring to?]........... are not the same 7-8 past and future kings mentioned in Rev 17.

I went back through the thread and I think you are saying that the 7 heads are not the same 7 heads in both Revelation 13 and 17 ?

I think they are, but in Revelation 17 only 6 of those kings had come to power back in John's day. In Revelation 12, with 7 years left before Jesus Returns, king 7 will have come to power. Then in Revelation 13, with 42 months left, king 7 will have been killed and come back to life.

 

[Revealing Times]

Note that the beast in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1-2, Revelation 17:3) is a different entity than Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:3,9). For the beast and the dragon are shown to be separate in Revelation 13:2,4, Revelation 16:13, and Revelation 19:20 to 20:3. Also, Satan has his crowns on his 7 heads (Revelation 12:3,9), while the beast has its crowns on its 10 horns (Revelation 13:1).

In Revelation 12:3, the 7 heads are Satan's literal heads in his true, serpentine-dragon form (Revelation 12:9), while the 7 heads of the symbolic leopard-like beast in Revelation 13:1-2 and Revelation 17:3 are the symbolic heads of the kingdom of Satan as he has made it in his 7-headed image down through the ages, during 7 consecutive empires (Revelation 17:9-10).

Hello Brother. Allow me to interject here. I think that Rev. 12, Rev. 13 and Rev. 17 all match Daniel chapter 7, let me paste a passage from Daniel 7. Then speak on the others. No Doubt when we speak of Kings it goes without saying they all have Crowns, the 7 Heads were 7 Kings and the 10 Kings at the end also had Crowns, but three were uprooted remember ? So even tough there were 10 Horns in Rev. 12, there were only 7 Crowns.

8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, (Anti-Christ) before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: (So we only have 7 Crowns but 10 Horns/Kingdoms) and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. {Matches Rev. 13}

9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

{{ So the Anti-Christ/Horn here is seen by Daniel as the Beast, he is a Man, he is the Anti-Christ who is destroyed, defeated by Jesus at the end, he is judged immediately, and cast into the Lake of Fire where he awaits the Devil/Satan who will be cast in Hell in a 1000 years. No doubt, Satan/Apollyon possesses the Anti-Christ and becomes the 8th King spoken of in Rev. 17, but this that Daniel speaks of is about a Man, who is cat into the burning flame/Hell. NOTICE a Key point that is made here that I did not see until a few months ago.........This Beast/Last Beast System Leader is destroyed IMMEDIATELY, but the OTHER BEASTS (Kingdoms of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome) were allowed to LIVE for a time and a season even though they had their DOMINION taken from them, MEANING WHAT ? That those Empires were not totally destroyed when they lost their Power, but the Last Beast (Anti-Christ) will be cast into Hell immediately, and the Last Beast System will be destroyed by God, with Plagues and utter destruction, immediately.

The Crowns mean nothing in essence. The Seven Heads are Kings as are the 10 Kings. They all have Crowns. But the 10 Kings give their power to the Anti-Christ, afterwards Three are overthrown, so there is only Seven Crowns, Rev. 12 only retells what Daniel chapter 7 told. Notice all Seven Heads had a Crown in Rev. 13, that is because the Real King is the Anti-Christ who is the true King and leader of the Seventh Head, so in essence he has the Crown and supersedes the 10 Kings, who in essence give their Kingdoms to the Anti-Christ. So the only reason the Seven Crowns is mentioned along with the Ten Horns in Revelation 12 is to let us know, that this is Daniels Chapter 7 Little Horn, he overthrows three Kings put of the Ten. Did you follow me here ? I have told this to someone before I believe which is why I studied it, there was a debate on another site about this. }}

 

[victorinus]

gays being allowed to marry,

I missed that one -
can you show me where that is?

 

[Dave Watchman]

If five had fallen and one was falling why do we see a beast with all 7 heads/mountains in tact in Rev 13?

You have heard it said that Lucifer is a "fallen" angel. And I will tell you that a "fallen" woman is not necessarily out of business, she is simply fallen from grace.

Fallen woman
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The term fallen woman was used to describe a woman who has "lost her innocence", and fallen from the grace of God. In 19th-century Britain especially, the meaning came to be closely associated with the loss or surrender of a woman's chastity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_woman

They are in tact all the way until the beast is defeated in Rev 19. % Heads hadn't fallen, not another falling in Johns time.

JUst loosen your restrictions on the definition of "fallen". Fallen dosn't always mean wiped out or dead. It can also have the meaning of being proved false.

The reason is the 7 mountains/heads of the beast are not the same 7-8 past and future kings mentioned in Rev 17.

A couple of them have been around since before the flood.

It has taken us 6000 years to develop all of the seven.

Every single human being on the planet is connected to one of the seven.

They are the same seven.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[Dave Watchman]

(Islam just came from Mohammedanism and has no more of an end time role than one of the seven heads on the composite beast)

"This calls for a mind with wisdom:
the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated;
they are also seven kings,
five of whom have fallen,
one is,
the other has not yet come,
and when he does come he must remain only a little while. ​

This is one of the more difficult to explain due mostly to our preconceptions. That's probably why it calls for a mind with wisdom. He gives wisdom to the wise. He reveals the deep and the hidden things.

As soon as the Script says "they are also seven kings", I get stuck in the understanding that they are individual human rulers or specific nations. But if we can loosen our restriction on the definition of "king" it might help to understand.

KING:

2.a. Something that is supreme or preeminent in a particular group, category, or sphere:
"In many countries, soccer is the king of sports" (Cameron W. Barr).

b.a person or thing preeminent in its class.

So not only can it be said that soccer is the "king" of sports, here in the USA it can be said that Budweiser is the "king" of beers.

Could I also say that Islam is the "king" or the "head" of middle eastern religion? Or that Eastern Mysticism is the "king" or the "head" of Asian religious belief systems?

You can't have a king or a head of something without lots and lots of people to be their subjects, which are represented as the many waters which are symbolic of peoples and multitudes and nations and languages where the harlot church sits.

Remember how the Pagans erected asherah poles on the "high" places or how they would travel up to the mountain tops of South America in search of their various religious deities. Even Jesus climbed the mount of transfiguration in search of the Father.

And the text also claims there are "blasphemous names on its heads". That should be a heads up that the seven have something to do with religion. But the clincher here is that one of the heads "were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed". This should be simple for the SDA people. Remember General Berthier in 1798 giving the beast his mortal head wound?

One of the heads is Catholicism so the other 6 have to be something of the same kind.

When the angel spoke with John in AD95, five had already "fallen". And again with the definitions, "fallen" here doesn't mean they're out of business. It just means they've been proven false or corrupt, like a "fallen" woman. So when the angel spoke with John the five that had fallen were proved false after Jesus died and was resurrected. And they were the five main religious authorities in existence at that time:

1) Atheism
2) Paganism
3) Eastern Mysticism
4) Mohammedanism
5) Judaism

While the angel spoke with John, the early Christian church was currently forming and would become known as the one that "is" which we know as:

6) Catholicism

The "the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while" arose in the middle ages thanks to the reformers like Martin Luther in 1517 and is known as:

7) Protestantism

Eventually all seven of these will become just a part of Revelation's composite beast and will be controlled by the 8th "king" which will be Lucifer's theocratic church/state, the mother of all harlots: Babylon.

She sounds like a sweetie.

With "only a little while" of time remaining, be silent before the Day of the Lord.

And follow the Lamb where ever He goes.

Peaceful Sabbath.