(moved) "RACE" IS AN ARTIFICIAL SOCIAL CONSTRUCT.

rturner76

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Please define "mongrel races".
The dictionary says...
mon·grel1
/ˈmäNGɡrəl, ˈməNGɡrəl/
noun
  1. a dog of no definable type or breed:
Pardon me but that is a poor and rude way to describe humans.
Am I a "mongrel"?
I have a bit of American Indian and Oriental in my genetic
background.
I suspect many if not much, of the citizens of the U.S.
have a very mixed racial, ethnic, background.
One of my cousins into Ancestry e-mailed me and said
our "white" family has some sub Saharan genes.
I dunno.

I forgot sarcasm doesn't show through on the internet unless you actually say you are being sarcastic. I'll edit my post. It's a common term white nationalist groups use to describe the non-white masses.
 
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jeager016

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Well humans belong to the human race but what would you call
The difference between a Native American and a European?
Curious ya know.
Are different humans a different breed?
I find labeling humans as a "breed" kind of dehumanizing.
Canines are of different breeds but not humans.
 
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Vicomte13

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Please define "mongrel races".
The dictionary says...
mon·grel1
/ˈmäNGɡrəl, ˈməNGɡrəl/
noun
  1. a dog of no definable type or breed:
Pardon me but that is a poor and rude way to describe humans.
Am I a "mongrel"?
I have a bit of American Indian and Oriental in my genetic
background.
I suspect many if not much, of the citizens of the U.S.
have a very mixed racial, ethnic, background.
One of my cousins into Ancestry e-mailed me and said
our "white" family has some sub Saharan genes.
I dunno.

CLEARLY a mutt!
 
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rturner76

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Well humans belong to the human race but what would you call
The difference between a Native American and a European?
Curious ya know.
Are different humans a different breed?
I find labeling humans as a "breed" kind of dehumanizing.
Canines are of different breeds but not humans.

That would be a different ethnicity or ethnic background. Different humans are not different breeds
 
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SpunkyDoodle

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... As far as I know slavery has been abolished in most cultures.
One would hope so.

Slavery is still practiced among some of Islam ...
Though most cultures (not all) have abandoned slavery as part of their legal and moral society, it is by no means gone. There are more people enslaved now than you would care to count. Also, a hundred fifty years ago and more, slavery was part of international law as having to do with property. More than just a moral issue needed to be resolved.

We fought a Civil war over this issue ...
The war you mention was not a civil war (different factions fighting for control of the same government) and was not fought over slavery, though that was a hot-button issue with many people. There was international property law and states' rights (10th Amendment) on one side, and there was a moral issue and control of the federal government on the other.

The Emancipation Proclamation did not free the slaves. If slavery was so big an issue, as we hear it was, the Southern States would not have seceded, since there would need to be 66 states to ever out-vote them on the issue. I'm not saying it was not an issue, just that it was not the cause of that war as we have been told.

There is moral issue the OP has attempted to make. It states that the color of a person's eyes and skin, the shape of the face, the texture of their hair, etc., do not qualify as distinguishing them as a different race, and the social construct of grouping people according to skin color, etc., is the kind of things Hitler promoted to rally the people around his maniacal goals for taking over the world.

Slavery has been around since ancient times. It was not a matter of skin color till the Dutch West India Company brought black slaves (sold to them by rival tribes in Africa,) to the new colonies in the Americas. Though the people in the colonies did not want them, they were required to use them by the people financing the new settlements. As this was the case, the institution became ingrained in society, and many troubles have arisen since the 1600s because of that.
 
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joshua 1 9

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The war you mention was not fought over slavery,
There is a lot of discussion over this and a lot of revisionism. I have a friend that teaches American History and I asked him about this. As the Industrial revolution took over farming there would be no need for slaves. So his belief is that slavery still would have come to an end only this would have taken longer without the war. The Lincoln–Douglas Debates of 1858 held in seven towns in the state of Illinois had a lot to do with slavery. Newspaper coverage of the debates was intense. Stenographers were used to create complete texts of each debate. (wiki)
 
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Cimorene

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Are you serious? People love to debate stupid things like whether there is only one race or many races! :) (I do recognise that I speak partially against myself, though.)

Lol, my reaction is just the same. Are you serious??? People debate about things relating to race all the time, but this is the 1st time I've seen a debate about whether race is an 'artificial social construct.'


Actually, the whole idea of political correctness (like insisting that you cannot call a group of people with similar physical characteristics a ‘race’ [which actually flies right in the face of the dictionary], because ‘there is only one race’, and that such a group must be called a ‘people’ or a ‘community’ or an ‘ethnicity’) is typically left-wing. Right-wing ideologies have no problem using the term ‘race’ as it has historically been used and is retained in dictionaries. Only left-wingers, with their newborn idea of ‘political correctness’, complain about this. This, of course, is not to say that OP or anyone who agrees with him is a left-winger, but they do accept this leftist idea.

We'll have to agree to disagree. It's all very possible that you living in Portugal & me living in Canada play a big role in how we're seeing it differently.

Like how?

Like whether race is at all relevant to whatever the situation is. Like in a medical context race is important, it's why you identify it on the paperwork. In some contexts it's not relevant at all but it will be brought in anyway.
 
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Hallstone

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There is no such thing as race. There are no "breeds" of human beings. Race is an artificial construct invented by SLAVE MASTERS in order to create better, more obedient SLAVES. Dont believe me? Ask Hitler.

As a Catholic/Christian I believe in mankind. The sons and daughters of Adam.

Thoughts?
This is a very interesting subject, I think when God confused everyone's language at the Babylonian dispersion, and the various groups migrated to their respective places, it seems the selective breeding process itself created the variations and God effectively postponed Babylon so that the world would last as long as it has, so in creating the different people groups according to language it created the "Races" because of selective breeding, so in a sense it is a construct, but a planned one with a intended outcome, variation and diversity makes the human race more sustainable in an evil environment. Even though Satan has used the variations to spark hatred and violence, still the diversity makes the construct more durable, and harder for someone (like him) to hijack the whole thing.
 
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SpunkyDoodle

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There is a lot of discussion over this and a lot of revisionism. I have a friend that teaches American History and I asked him about this. As the Industrial revolution took over farming there would be no need for slaves. So his belief is that slavery still would have come to an end only this would have taken longer without the war. The Lincoln–Douglas Debates of 1858 held in seven towns in the state of Illinois had a lot to do with slavery. Newspaper coverage of the debates was intense. Stenographers were used to create complete texts of each debate. (wiki)
I understand that people were polarized about the hot button issue of slavery. Certain people pushed abolitionists to have the North secede over the issue of slavery some years earlier, but there was not enough interest in it. They worked their way into Southern politics, and pressed for the hot button issue of Tariffs to get the South to secede. Even with that, there was not a pure motive of slavery to fight a war. The South was separate, and that was that. The North was not satisfied to follow the Constitution to begin with, and the war was fought to eliminate the 10th Amendment. (Too much limitation upon the Federal Government for them.)

In the Congress, apportionment was made by population. Northerners did not want slaves to count at all toward apportionment, while Southerners wanted them to count, so their states could get sufficient recognition in the government. The compromise of three fifths was decided, but has been used for the exact opposite intent lately. This is part of why the OP wants to make the issue of skin color such a point of contention. If it is specifically the cause of all these ills, we have a racist agenda. If we recognize it as insignificant to the fact that these are all people, we diminish the whole thing, and get closer to treating all people equally.

I'm not in full agreement with all the points on one side of the discussion over that of the others, but recognize that the concern that mere skin color, facial features, etc., being used as to define a separated race deserves to be discussed. Sorry if that is not worded well. It is late, but I wanted to clarify the position I take.
 
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AlexDTX

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I am still not sure why you are bringing Evolution into this, though. It almost seems as though you are confusing the concepts of ‘race’ and ‘species’.
Because the etymological root to the concept of race is the forerunner of a new species.
 
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The Portuguese Baptist

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Because it's not skin color it's a caricature of skin color. People are brown, light brown dark, brown, tan, pink.

Oh dear! Is it really a big deal whether we are talking about the exact colour shade? Come on! So long as there are no people with skin as white as snow, using ‘white’ to describe my skin is perfectly fine; and, so long as there are no people with skin as black as coal, using ‘black’ to describe my friend's skin is perfectly fine. We all understand each other; the terms are clear to everyone. So what is the big deal, any way?
 
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The Portuguese Baptist

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Lol, my reaction is just the same. Are you serious??? People debate about things relating to race all the time, but this is the 1st time I've seen a debate about whether race is an 'artificial social construct.'

Same here, but, still, it is still a debate on something related to race — and, this time, a pretty stupid one.

We'll have to agree to disagree. It's all very possible that you living in Portugal & me living in Canada play a big role in how we're seeing it differently.

Does the Canadian right-wing emphasise political correctness? Oh dear!

Like whether race is at all relevant to whatever the situation is. Like in a medical context race is important, it's why you identify it on the paperwork. In some contexts it's not relevant at all but it will be brought in anyway.

Which is not a problem, is it?
 
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rturner76

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Oh dear! Is it really a big deal whether we are talking about the exact colour shade? Come on! So long as there are no people with skin as white as snow, using ‘white’ to describe my skin is perfectly fine; and, so long as there are no people with skin as black as coal, using ‘black’ to describe my friend's skin is perfectly fine. We all understand each other; the terms are clear to everyone. So what is the big deal, any way?

No big deal. There just should be a more effective way to identify each other rather than black white red yellow. I understand with police time is of the essence so you need a quick description. It does not need to carry over into our private lives. Take two minutes and get to know where someone is from and you can be more accurate in your description. Meaning: So and so is North African or that person I know is from Nebraska or something like that, giving you a more accurate picture of the person's actual heritage.
 
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Landon Caeli

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When I moved to California from the midwest, I was amazed to discover that the California squirrel does not climb trees, instead they burrow holes in the ground -but to me, they look pretty much the same.

...They are all still "squirrels" -the same species of animal. Just a little different. It's okay to be a little different.
 
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The Portuguese Baptist

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No big deal. There just should be a more effective way to identify each other rather than black white red yellow. I understand with police time is of the essence so you need a quick description. It does not need to carry over into our private lives. Take two minutes and get to know where someone is from and you can be more accurate in your description. Meaning: So and so is North African or that person I know is from Nebraska or something like that, giving you a more accurate picture of the person's actual heritage.

Or I can just look at the guy and say, ‘That guy is black.’
 
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rturner76

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Or I can just look at the guy and say, ‘That guy is black.’

Yes you could if you don't care about who people really are. He is black so he could be Nigerian, African American, or from New Guinea. Three very different places with three very different cultures, religions and way of life that are related in no way other than skin tone. I think it is insensitive. Why is there a need to classify people immediately by sight? Unless you are reporting a crime, there is no need to classify people this way. It is something racists like to do. Look at somebody and say "he is this and there is no need to know them further because I already know what they are."
 
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The Portuguese Baptist

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Yes you could if you don't care about who people really are. He is black so he could be Nigerian, African American, or from New Guinea. Three very different places with three very different cultures, religions and way of life that are related in no way other than skin tone.

So what? Depending on the context in which I see him, I might care about his life story and his origins just as much as I care about yours — which is little to nothing.

This is what will happen if I see a black man on the street. I don't care where he comes from. To be honest, I wouldn't even care what his skin colour is, were it not for the fact that it is plainly visible — and, even after seeing his skin colour, I still really don't care what colour he is. However, I already know that he is black.

As for my black friend, however, something very different happens. I know that he comes from Angola. He is my friend, so I care about him. I know that he is black and born in Angola.

I think it is insensitive.

Not at all. I can see a black guy on the street and not care where he comes from.

Why is there a need to classify people immediately by sight?

There isn't. There just simply isn't. I don't see what's the big deal you're making, any way. The only ones who are implying that there is a need for such are the FBI, as you have shown — and we both agree that sight-based racial identification is important for criminal investigations. So what's the big deal?

Unless you are reporting a crime, there is no need to classify people this way. It is something racists like to do.

I'll tell you something liberals like to do: calling anyone ‘racist’ just because one said something which they chose to interpret as being offensive. They do this all the time and it is seriously annoying me. ‘A white policeman killed a black guy? He's racist! There are no blacks in the Government? The Government is racist! You're not willing to date black girls because you think they're not pretty? You're racist!’ Please! How on Earth am I being racist by looking at a black guy and affirming that he is black? Come on! Don't be ridiculous!

Look at somebody and say "he is this and there is no need to know them further because I already know what they are."

I don't say that. We don't say that. No-one says that. All we're saying is that the guy is black. No-one is saying that we already know enough about him.
 
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SolomonVII

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There is no such thing as race. There are no "breeds" of human beings. Race is an artificial construct invented by SLAVE MASTERS in order to create better, more obedient SLAVES. Dont believe me? Ask Hitler.

As a Catholic/Christian I believe in mankind. The sons and daughters of Adam.

Thoughts?
There is a definite delineate between where one sex stops, and the other begins. Man and women are distinct entities and the differences do not vary on a seamless continuum.
As for race, while there are differences between populations of people, there is no definite point where one race begins, and another ends. The differences for race DO lie on a continuum.
That is why people like Elizabeth Warren can identify themselves as Cherokee without anyone being really able to say that she is not. The differences between a Cherokee and a EuroAmerican are mostly illusionary.

Now there are differences between cultures and ethnic variations and values that vary significantly among various populations of people. And there are differences in physical appearances between different populations of people too. In terms of genetics, people have evolved not as individuals, but as member of tribes. "Tribalism" or identifying closely with people who look and act like us, and seeing people outside of the tribe who look and act different as being something 'other' is likely embedded into our very genetics. Studies with infants and very small children even show this.
This work well for thousands of years of evolution where tribes lived and died together, and survived on account of such social cohesion. In a pluralistic society, with highly mobile populations, this is something that can be subjected to learned behavior. We are not slaves to our genetics after all. Our genetics are conditioned towards polyamory, for example, but we learn how to be monogamous.
The same can be held true for our tribalistic tendencies.
 
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