Israel - Is it time to stop US support of this country?

[Aryeh Jay]

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[Dave-W]

I am not wrong - the text from Ephesians clearly - and I mean absolutely clearly - shows that Paul sees the Gentile as fully integrated into God's covenant family.

I do not dispute that. It is part of being "grafted in."

You become part of the cultivated tree drawing from the Hebrew prophets. That makes one part of the "commonwealth" of Israel, but not Israel proper. Eph 2.12.

Grafted in branches bear the fruit of their own original kind, NOT the kind of the trunk and root stock.

 

[Dave-W]

I agree - I meant to say that the Israel in verse 26 is the church.

I can agree to a point, but I think we will come at that from vastly different places. I see that verse as relating back to Jeremiah 31 where God promises to bring EVERY JEW into the New Covenant. "All Israel" is every living Jew (at what ever time that occurs) plus all the gentile christians.

 

[Hieronymus]

If that were true, Israel would be a much bigger country.

It will be, probably.
And compared to some 60 years ago...

I guess you believe Zionists are hiding under your bed and the poisonous little mushroom caps are growing in your yard.

I guess you believe that i believe that....

 

[Hieronymus]

And yet they allow you to say this.

Yes, apparently.

I think they're proud of it.

 

[ShaulHaTarsi]

A modern version of the Warsaw ghetto.

Right. But if you go to many people in Israel itself, they will tell you that they feel as if they are in a ghetto. The problem is alleviating the fear from Israel that they themselves will be under siege if they relax the siege on Gaza.

Further pressuring Israel just furthers the impression that the world really does hate them. How does one break this cycle?

 

[Waterwerx]

It will be, probably.
And compared to some 60 years ago...
I guess you believe that i believe that....

Well, you believe Zionists rule the world. Obviously you have something against Jews so you're pulling these ideas out of a unicorn's nose.

 

[samir]

Israel couldn't exist without US support but they continue to build illegally in occupied land and to brutally suppress the Palestinians. Is it time that the US used it's influence to get Israel to comply with UN resolutions, leave illegally occupied land and give up it's illegal nuclear weapons. Friends can still be friends even when one tells the other that their behaviour is unacceptable.

Israel needs to occupy the land because the Palestinians are terrorists who use it to launch rockets into Israel to murder innocent Israelis. If I were in charge I would bomb the s*** out of them.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

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[Oafman]

If a country conquers another country and annexes it, then it is part of that country.

This isn't the 18th century

How does one break this cycle?

Both sides make concessions, and both sides get a grip on their more extreme elements who will not make concessions. As long as Likud and Hamas are in charge, there is little hope.

Having seen the end of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, which I had thought would never end, I still have hope for peace in the Holy Land. There was progress back in the 90s, under Rabin and Arafat, and we need to get back to that level of dialogue.

 

[brinny]

If they're "Gods people" then the all powerful God can protect them, he can do a bit of old fashioned smiting.

Government policy should not dictated by who an interpretation of who God wants to support , it should be dictated by International law and treaties between nations of all religions and all gods, including no God.

Israel are breaking UN resolutions and the US is doing nothing about it, that is raising tensions in the Middle East as is Israels treatment of Palestinians, all I'm saying is the US should use the huge influence to get Israel to follow UN resolutions and stop occupying land that was not Israel prior to their conquest of it.

then the all powerful God can protect them

It is written that He will.

The living God says this:

"And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." ~Genesis 12:3

Israel is our ally. It would be abominably wicked to turn our backs on her.

There is a growing antisemitism throughout the world. Woe to those who are a part of it.

God help us.

Praying.

 

[brinny]

All Palestinians are terrorists? Even the Palestinian Christians? Kids? Elderly?

Sad, and tragic, isn't it, that children are used this way sometimes?

This seems to be a malady that's rampant with Israel's enemies who use any means possible to kill and attempt to wipe off the face of the earth, the Jewish people, even using their own children to do so.

God help us.

Praying.

Just as a side note, Israel does much good and is our ally. This nation should NEVER abandon our allies, especially Israel at this most crucial time.

God bless Israel.

 

[ShaulHaTarsi]

This isn't the 18th century

Both sides make concessions, and both sides get a grip on their more extreme elements who will not make concessions. As long as Likud and Hamas are in charge, there is little hope.

Having seen the end of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, which I had thought would never end, I still have hope for peace in the Holy Land. There was progress back in the 90s, under Rabin and Arafat, and we need to get back to that level of dialogue.

How do you preserve both democracy and prevent extremism? Hamas was democratically elected. The same sort of problem exists in the Arab Spring, and in Egypt (which people seem to have largely forgotten about). I think the common misconception when people hear the world "Democracy" is "Oh! that's good, because they're sure going to vote for the values we care for", but it's usually the exact opposite.

So, were the troubles resolved through political pressure? general secularization of Europe?
I'm old enough to remember the conflict and stories of it on the news, but I never truly understood why they were even fighting: Weren't they both pretty much the same ethnic group and religion?

 

[brinny]

This blatant antisemitism and hatred has GOT to stop. Israel is our ally. It would be despicable and cowardly to abandon our ally Israel to such hatred and bigotry.

Praying for Israel.

God have mercy.

Olympics 2016: 3 times Israel was snubbed in Rio

On the way to the Olympics’ Opening Ceremony, the Lebanese delegation refused to share a bus with Israel’s athletes. The Lebanese asked the bus driver to close the door, and then the head of Lebanon’s delegation physically blocked the aisle so the Israelis couldn’t board. To quell the argument, Olympics staff quickly found another bus for Israel. “How is it possible that they let something like this happen and on the opening night of the Olympic Games?” Israeli sailing coach Udi Gal wrote on Facebook. “Isn’t this the opposite of what the Olympics represent and work against it? I cannot describe the way I feel. I’m enraged and shocked by this event.”

http://www.jta.org/2016/08/12/news-...s-2016-3-times-israel-has-been-snubbed-in-rio


In the meantime....

 

[Tull]

Go ahead and abandon Israel America,your fate will be sealed at that point and its effects felt before sundown that day.

 

[brinny]

Ashraf Sherjan, a secular Baloch Muslim living in Germany, explains why he stands with Israel.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Israel - Is it time to stop US support of this country?

It's been past time for the US to end its support of Israel for decades now... assuming supporting Israel was ever the right decision, and I'm not convinced of that.

No matter how one slices it, America gains nothing while Israel gains wars fought and paid for by someone else. There's no rational justification for that arrangement.

 

[Dave RP]

Go ahead and abandon Israel America,your fate will be sealed at that point and its effects felt before sundown that day.

My original post did not mention abandoning Israel, I was asking the question whether the US which funds Israel, should put more pressure on them to re-start a peace process and stop building on occupied land. I believe the US should do so, someone has to break the cycle of violence, and there is no one else with the influence that the US has.

 

[Oafman]

How do you preserve both democracy and prevent extremism? Hamas was democratically elected.

That's the tricky part. We need the electorates to remove Likud and Hamas and elect parties who are less hard line and more prepared to compromise. But to get the electorates to do that is hard, because when neither side is making any compromises, people on both side are more likely to be angry, and more likely to vote for a hard line party. It's a very tough cycle to break.

So, were the troubles resolved through political pressure? general secularization of Europe?
I'm old enough to remember the conflict and stories of it on the news, but I never truly understood why they were even fighting: Weren't they both pretty much the same ethnic group and religion?

It was Catholic vs Protestant. But, like with Israel and Palestine, it was much more than that. It was sectarian, as well as simply religious. It was 2 groups of people who had been brought up to hate each other, and to believe they had a moral right to a plot of land. And it went back centuries.

A lot of things came together to bring about the end of the conflict. But basically, both sides managed to push their extreme elements away from positions of power, which opened the door for both sides to make compromises. And once they started compromising, there was a road to permanent peace. There will always be some people who will not compromise; there still are a few in Northern Ireland, on both sides. They stage small scale attacks every so often, but without the support from their communities that they used to get, they achieve very little.

It took many years, it needed a great deal of involvement from the international community (Bill Clinton was particularly good). It required governments to 'talk to terrorists'; the British govt always swore it would never negotiate with the IRA, but of course in the end it was such negotiations which made peace possible. It required murderers to be released and pardoned (tough on the families of victims). All of this is a painful process for many people, but in the end, it was the only option to prevent more people suffering.

 

[Tull]

My original post did not mention abandoning Israel, I was asking the question whether the US which funds Israel, should put more pressure on them to re-start a peace process and stop building on occupied land. I believe the US should do so, someone has to break the cycle of violence, and there is no one else with the influence that the US has.

So Israel should give up land it got while defending its self from enemies seeking its destruction,under the guise of stopping the violence you want Israel to submit to its enemies so it can be destroyed.