Would you support a 'Christian Zone'?

[W2L]

In politics, we think we are placing a godly Church to rule over the corrupt government, but in reality we are placing a corrupt government to rule over the Church. No longer do we follow the apostles, but now we follow Trump and Hillary.

 

[Cimorene]

In politics, we think we are placing a godly Church to rule over the corrupt government, but in reality we are placing a corrupt government to rule over the Church. No longer do we follow the apostles, but now we follow Trump and Hillary.

Most people who are sensible & sane don't "follow" Trump or Hillary the same way a believer would follow God. Most just realize that whoever is elected as President of the US is going to have an ENORMOUS impact on the country & the rest of the world for a very long time. They might not like either one of them but they just act like how responsible grown-ups should & bother to learn the policies, then make a decision about who they think is able to do the best job.

 

[W2L]

You do realize that whether you decide to vote or not on Election Day, people are still going to be elected, & those people will have influence over the quality of life of people, right? I think we should care about the lives of others & take action.

Yes I realize that. However for every Christian republican vote there is a Christian democratic vote. We argue, slander each other and our leaders, promote fear, anxiety, covetousness, discord...and at the end of the day we cancel each others vote out anyway. Its just not worth it.

If we truly care about people then we will not put a stumbling block in their way. Will you tell a democrat that before they can join the Church they must be a republican, or vice versa? That's what you are saying. You are saying its our duty. Is Jesus a Republican or democrat? Paul said we must do nothing that takes Gods grace in vain, but in everything proving ourselves as ministers of the gospel. We do nothing that would blame the ministry or causes another person to stumble either. Likewise. when we get involved in politics we will get blamed for wars and other such things. In economics we will either rob the poor by being greedy capitalists, or as socialists will rob the church of integrity by demanding that the government pass tithing laws that we ourselves are not allowed to pass within the Church. We will take from another mans pocket and give to the poor, rather than taking from our pocket and giving to the poor. We are supposed to be separate from the world , and to let our light shine not our fear, anxiety, and discord.

 

[W2L]

Most people who are sensible & sane don't "follow" Trump or Hillary the same way a believer would follow God. Most just realize that whoever is elected as President of the US is going to have an ENORMOUS impact on the country & the rest of the world for a very long time. They might not like either one of them but they just act like how responsible grown-ups should & bother to learn the policies, then make a decision about who they think is able to do the best job.

Actually yes they do. They believe that we must vote for these people in order to save us. God is not our helper, Trump and Hillary is. We follow them and act like them. We recite their propaganda and we follow their examples of fear, anxiety and discord.

 

[Cimorene]

Yes I realize that. However for every Christian republican vote there is a Christian democratic vote. We argue, slander each other and our leaders, promote fear, anxiety, covetousness, discord...and at the end of the day we cancel each others vote out anyway. Its just not worth it.

You say "we" argue, slander each other, etc, but that's not how every person who cares enough to bother learning policies & vote if they can acts. That's how some people choose to act. You see plenty of Christians tearing up each other on here over politics but that's not how every Christian acts & it's not how they should act. They just decided to act that way. Plenty of others don't let politics divide them. They just see voting as an important task.

It's totally not true that for every Democratic vote there's a Republican vote & so they cancel each other out. If you don't think voting is worth it, then don't. You've been blessed with living in a country where you get the right to vote, but nobody is going to force you to do anything about it.

If we truly care about people then we will not put a stumbling block in their way. Will you tell a democrat that before they can join the Church they must be a republican, or vice versa? That's what you are saying. You are saying its our duty. Is Jesus a Republican or democrat?

No, that's not what I'm saying. Please stop twisting my words. People decide how to treat others who disagree with them about politics & whether they're going to put stumbling blocks in each other's paths. Voting doesn't put the stumbling block down. Yes adults have a duty to vote & to pay their taxes.

Paul said we must do nothing that takes Gods grace in vain, but in everything proving ourselves as ministers of the gospel. We do nothing that would blame the ministry or causes another person to stumble either. Likewise. when we get involved in politics we will get blamed for wars and other such things. In economics we will either rob the poor by being greedy capitalists, or as socialists will rob the church of integrity by demanding that the government pass tithing laws that we ourselves are not allowed to pass within the Church. We will take from another mans pocket and give to the poor, rather than taking from our pocket and giving to the poor. We are supposed to be separate from the world , and to let our light shine not our fear, anxiety, and discord.

Paul didn't sit on his hands.

 

[Cimorene]

Actually yes they do. They believe that we must vote for these people in order to save us. God is not our helper, Trump and Hillary is. We follow them and act like them. We recite their propaganda and we follow their examples of fear, anxiety and discord.

That's delusional.

 

[W2L]

That's delusional.

No its an observation.

 

[W2L]

Paul didn't sit on his hands.

Paul didn't teach us to follow the lies of politicians either, or to recite their propaganda, or be divided in discord. He teaches the opposite actually.

You teach people to follow politicians then that what they will do.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Don't you think that a lot of people who've said that God told them to do something are lying about it & just trying to trick people into doing what they want? Bc that's one of the best ways to get naive people to do what you want isn't it? To convince them that they're not following your will but God's.

I was mainly just talking about people using some reason & voting if they're able to. I can't vote but I def. would if I could bc that's just being responsible & using a right that you're super lucky to have.

Of course, however that's the problem with faith based beliefs. There is no way to actually know what god does or doesn't want (assuming the god actually exists). Who's to say the guy committing genocide because that's what he says god wants him to do isn't actually correct? There's plenty of things like that in the bible. Likewise, there's plenty of things in the bible about not killing.

It can be taken any way you want it, if you choose to focus on the passages where non believers, or those who break the rules should be killed or otherwise punished then you can justify it easily. If you focus on the other more peaceful passages, you can justify peace just the same.

There is no way to contact god directly and get a clear, unequivocal and undisputed answer. It's all about what you think god wants based on faith. A belief system based on that will never provide consistently correct answers, even if god is real.

If god exists, it's on him to make himself clearly known to everyone living in the modern world, today. That would actually solve a lot of problems. (Note: I don't actually believe a god exists, I'm just saying if that god does actually exist)

 

[W2L]

Of course, however that's the problem with faith based beliefs. There is no way to actually know what god does or doesn't want (assuming the god actually exists). Who's to say the guy committing genocide because that's what he says god wants him to do isn't actually correct? There's plenty of things like that in the bible. Likewise, there's plenty of things in the bible about not killing.

It can be taken any way you want it, if you choose to focus on the passages where non believers, or those who break the rules should be killed or otherwise punished then you can justify it easily. If you focus on the other more peaceful passages, you can justify peace just the same.

There is no way to contact god directly and get a clear, unequivocal and undisputed answer. It's all about what you think god wants based on faith. A belief system based on that will never provide consistently correct answers, even if god is real.

If god exists, it's on him to make himself clearly known to everyone living in the modern world, today. That would actually solve a lot of problems. (Note: I don't actually believe a god exists, I'm just saying if that god does actually exist)

It does give answers that should lead Christians, but they are being mislead by bad teachers who don't understand sound doctrine. This was prophesied by the spirit 2000 years ago, and has been a problem since.

 

[Dave Ellis]

What point are you making then? You are suggesting we have a duty to vote for leaders, yet it divides us over the lies these leaders tell. It causes division, discord, contention, and even promotes fear, anxiety and covetousness. It also promotes a worldly kingdom instead of a heavenly one. Politics teach us to walk in the flesh and all its works, instead of the spirit.

Differences of opinion and division isn't always a bad thing. Well informed debate often produces better solutions. Likewise, division is a requirement for a multi-party political system. I'd much rather a multi-party system instead of a one party state.

The problem with the current political situation in the United States is that there's too much money involved in politics, and there's a lack of choice with only two major parties. Most other first world democracies have at least three major, and quite often five or six major parties. It forces compromise and working together, something the United States Congress sorely lacks right now.

 

[Dave Ellis]

It does give answers that should lead Christians, but they are being mislead by bad teachers who don't understand sound doctrine. This was prophesied by the spirit 2000 years ago, and has been a problem since.

But that's the thing, it's open to interpretation. The answers you see may not be the answers another person sees. That's what causes the problems, and there's no way to tell who has the right interpretation.

 

[W2L]

Differences of opinion and division isn't always a bad thing. Well informed debate often produces better solutions. Likewise, division is a requirement for a multi-party political system. I'd much rather a multi-party system instead of a one party state.

The problem with the current political situation in the United States is that there's too much money involved in politics, and there's a lack of choice with only two major parties. Most other first world democracies have at least three major, and quite often five or six major parties. It forces compromise and working together, something the United States Congress sorely lacks right now.

You are using a human argument to disagree with a spiritual understanding. I respect your opinion, but its not relevant to what I'm saying.

 

[W2L]

But that's the thing, it's open to interpretation. The answers you see may not be the answers another person sees. That's what causes the problems, and there's no way to tell who has the right interpretation.

Its not open to interpretation at all. Division in the body is sin, therefore whatever divides us should be resolved not rationalized. The spirit interprets.

 

[Dave Ellis]

You are using a human argument to disagree with a spiritual understanding. I respect your opinion, but its not relevant to what I'm saying.

Spiritual understandings are also human as well.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Its not open to interpretation at all. Division in the body is sin, therefore whatever divides us should be resolved not rationalized. The spirit interprets.

But that's not how things actually work. If that were true, the world would be a much different place.

 

[W2L]

Spiritual understandings are also human as well.

No they are not. I'm talking about a real spirit. I'm not using a metaphor but I'm talking about Gods spirit which is alive.

 

[W2L]

But that's not how things actually work. If that were true, the world would be a much different place.

The world is not the Church. Its called to be holy which means to be separate from the world. The world doesn't have Gods spirit but instead a spirit the bible refers to as the "spirit of the world".

 

[Moxie123]

Why do we need any leaders at all -- human or otherwise?

That's what I just said. Plus, servants are not leaders.

 

[TLK Valentine]

That's what I just said. Plus, servants are not leaders.

No gods, no masters...