LDS Really interesting discussion between Christian and Mormon on Salvation

[ToBeLoved]

I respect your belief in this regard. I request that you likewise respect my beliefs which disagree with your statement here. Both of us are intelligent beings who can investigate things, study, and pray to God.


If you have an example of me lying, please present the post number so that I may apologize and fix the mistake.

If you cannot find such an example, please retract your statement here.

(Note: the definition of "lying" is not believing differently than you. For that I have no apology.)

Most of what I said is true about Mormonism. I'm not retracting anything.

You are a Mormon and follow Mormonism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jane_Doe]

Most of what I said is true about Mormonism. I'm not retracting anything.

You are a Mormon and follow Mormonism.

Then please provide evidence for your statement: in what post number have I lied?

If you cannot provide such evidence, then your statement is false, regardless of your refusal to retract it.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Then please provide evidence for your statement: in what post number have I lied?

If you cannot provide such evidence, then your statement is false, regardless of your refusal to retract it.

It was directed at the religion Mormonism. but take it anyway that you like.

 

[Jane_Doe]

It was directed at the religion Mormonism. but take it anyway that you like.

Use of the word "you" indicates that the speaker is referring to the person they are talking to. Therefore, your comments and accusations of falsehood in #82 & #84 were directed to me (Jane). If that was not your intention, I would advise different word choice.

 

[Rescued One]

The Mormon version of truth is not absoulute truth. Also, if you were loyal to the gospel you would not permit Mormonism to redefine Biblical terms and mislead those who think the Mormon religion is Christian. Mormonism prays on those who trust that Biblical terms do not change, Mormonism steals Christians that way. Now that is lying.

They can't steal those who have been sealed.

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

[dzheremi]

This minister:
1) Took the time to look up when & where this LDS event was.
2) Cleared his schedule to go out to the event.
3) Actually drove to the event.
4) took the time/planning to bring a film crew along,
5) took the time to post the video on line,
6) is wearing a shirt to specifically to flame Mormons.

Yes, I would submit that he planned to be offensive and display a false message.

Hmmm...yeah, that sounds pretty rude, when you put it that way. Who behaves like that? It's pathetic and sad.

Oh, wait.

Mormon missionaries:

1) Take the time to look up where non-LDS live.
2) Create a schedule and map of non-LDS houses to go to.
3) Actually go to those houses and bother the people in them.
4) Take the time/planning to bring others along, making sure to go in pairs in order to increase the pressure on the people they try to badger into becoming LDS.
5) Take time to post videos of this activity. (I won't link any, but you can find plenty on pro-LDS websites and YouTube channels.)
6) Preach a story about apostasy specifically designed to 'flame' non-LDS, in an attempt to make the LDS seem better.

Yes, I would submit that they plan to be offensive and display a false message.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Hmmm...yeah, that sounds pretty rude, when you put it that way.

Exactly!

Mormon missionaries:

Your comparison here is false. Going from my list (substituting Catholics here, just as an example faith):

1) Took the time to look up when & where this Catholic event was. Nope.
2) Cleared his schedule to go out to the event. Nope.
3) Actually drove to the event. Nope.
4) took the time/planning to bring a film crew along, Nope.
5) took the time to post the video on line, Nope.
6) is wearing a shirt to specifically to flame Catholics. Nope.

Going from your list now (which is different than mine)

1) Take the time to look up where non-LDS live. Nope.
2) Create a schedule and map of non-LDS houses to go to. Nope.
3) Actually go to those houses and bother the people in them. Which one could avoid by simply not answering the door.
4) Take the time/planning to bring others along, Not particularly, unless special circumstances require it.
making sure to go in pairs in order to increase the pressure on the people they try to badger into becoming LDS. Nope.
5) Take time to post videos of this activity. (I won't link any, but you can find plenty on pro-LDS websites and YouTube channels.) Nope.
6) Preach a story about apostasy specifically designed to 'flame' non-LDS, Nope.

Conclusion: your comparison does not hold.

 

[dzheremi]

What world do you live where Mormons aren't famous for sending missionaries door to door to attempt to convert people? Come on. You can't just say "nope" and then pretend that this somehow changes reality.

Besides, my point is that the preacher in the video is not doing anything Mormons can't be said to also be doing, but of course then you'd never say that Mormon missionaries "plan to be offensive and display a false message", so it's all a matter of perspective, and your complaints about what others do ring very hollow when you're doing the same thing to other people.

 

[Jane_Doe]

What world do you live where Mormons aren't famous for sending missionaries door to door to attempt to convert people?

Nope, I didn't say that.

Come on. You can't just say "nope" and then pretend that this somehow changes reality.

You asked questions, I answering them truthfully.

[Musical clip]

Mockery noted.

Besides, my point is that the preacher in the video is not doing anything Mormons can't be said to also be doing,

Your point incorrect, see post 90.

but of course then you'd never say that Mormon missionaries "plan to be offensive and display a false message",.

When a Mormon missionary's uniform has a doctored quote intended to flame on it, then we'll talk.

your complaints about what others do ring very hollow when you're doing the same thing to other people.

Demonstrated false statement.

 

[dzheremi]

I see by your reply that you don't know what the word perspective means.

Whelp, this is another pointless conversation, then.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I see by your reply that you don't know what the word perspective means..

Shrug. I've just a factual truthful person. Sorry if that offends.

 

[dzheremi]

I'm not offended. Your religion is more offensive than your posting could ever be, and neither are factual or truthful.

 

[fatboys]

I'm not offended. Your religion is more offensive than your posting could ever be, and neither are factual or truthful.

That is offensive

 

[dzheremi]

Of course it is. That's the point. From the perspective of Christians, Mormonism cannot but offend (due to its teachings on JS' made-up "great apostasy", its ridiculous and heretical theology, and its aggressive and irritating proselytization campaign, among other things), while from the perspective of Mormons, it appears that you believe that the whole world is out to get you because they (gasp!) disagree with your religion. Hence all this fuss about the video when you guys do the exact same thing to others, all the while claiming that you do not and disingenuously pretending to answer criticism with snarky non-replies about how truthful and factual you are.

"Sorry if that offends", fatboys, et al.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Of course it is. That's the point. From the perspective of Christians, Mormonism cannot but offend (due to its teachings on JS' made-up "great apostasy", its ridiculous and heretical theology, and its aggressive and irritating proselytization campaign, among other things), while from the perspective of Mormons, it appears that you believe that the whole world is out to get you because they (gasp!) disagree with your religion. Hence all this fuss about the video when you guys do the exact same thing to others, all the while claiming that you do not and disingenuously pretending to answer criticism with snarky non-replies about how truthful and factual you are.

"Sorry if that offends", fatboys, et al.

I can always tell when we've won the Biblical argument because it finally comes down to arguments like this.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I'm not offended. Your religion is more offensive than your posting could ever be, and neither are factual or truthful.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

I believe your faith to be incorrect, but do not find it's existence or your belief in it to be offensive. Nor do I see any excuse for anyone to be less than 100% truthful and factual about what you believe. Nor do your beliefs give me license to be less than 100% charitable to you. I do all of this, without compromising my belief-- in fact, doing anything else would be a direct contraction of my beliefs, because I worship a God of Love and Truth.

(Note: the applies to you, but also everyone else).

 

[Jane_Doe]

Hence all this fuss about the video when you guys do the exact same thing to others, all the while claiming that you do not and disingenuously pretending to answer criticism with snarky non-replies about how truthful and factual you are.

Again, your statement here is incorrect. See post 90.

 

[dzheremi]

Jane Doe, why do you keep telling me to refer to post 90, as though your opinion is fact just because you agree with yourself? You even did it in post 90 itself, which is weird (I assume you meant post 88, which is also chock full of opinions, not facts).

Also, it doesn't really matter what you personally feel or don't feel about my faith. Your religion is anti-Christianity even if you may personally have more positive feelings about it, and it is your religion's precepts that matter in inter-religious discussion. Individual Mormons may be the nicest, most friendly people ever, but this isn't about personalities. It's about faith. Your faith makes various claims that my faith compels me to reject, and vice versa. That's it.

 

[withwonderingawe]

This video is interesting in that it encapsulates a lot of the same arguments from both sides that we see in this forum in discussing the difference between Christian and mormon doctrines of salvation.

 

[withwonderingawe]

I took the time to actually listen to this silly thing and I see the Mormons frustration,

The street preacher just said we don’t need to follow Jesus,

John 10:
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Then he says all my sins do not count against me,

It’s that false doctrine of once saved always saved but the Bible teaches if we sin willfully there is no forgiveness. Paul said that Baptism washes away all past sins not all future sins. James says to him that knoweth to do good and does it not to him it is a sin.

The Mormon is right ‘that’s the biggest get out of jail free card I ever heard of.

I got to go lay some tile.