How does one come to believe something?

[StTruth]

You have no evidence that aliens didnt visit me last night and made it clear, there is no god and they created this universe.

Therefore, your lack of belief in aliens creating this universe, is loaded with faith.

See how anyone can make a claim about something that is unfalsifiable and it is just as credible as your claims?

Wow, this is getting very confusing. Basically, I agree with bhsmte here. The problem with agreeing with an atheist in CF is you get pounded on by a whole battalion of Christians for perceived betrayal. But I want to stick to truth and fairplay.

To say that an atheist has more faith than a theist is ludicrous to say the least. Not believing in the supernatural and in an afterlife is not the product of faith. When an atheist says that he probably won't exist after his death, he is not relying on faith. He is stating what reality is in the absence of evidence to the contrary. He is merely being honest to reality and the evidence as it stands. When we believers postulate that we'll be in heaven in the arms of Jesus, we are relying wholly on faith because we are postulating something in the total absence of evidence. Believing in things that are not supported by evidence requires faith and that's what we have.

I hope that is clear to all.

Cheers,

StTruth

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I dismiss your quasi-metaphysical woo woo as the nonsense it is.

LOL

i was planning on a long winded reply to him pointing out errors, but your post sums it up nicely.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I always get a kick, when theists say this about non believers.

Yeah, the "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist" always cracks me up. it's like they think they "got one" over on us. When in actuality it just plainly points out what they don't understand at all.

 

[HitchSlap]

i was planning on a long winded reply to him pointing out errors, but your post sums it up nicely.

You've been dong a fine job with your respnses to Scotty, I just don't have the patience any longer.

 

[Arsenios]

What's your excuse, then?

Truth...

I love truth...

I despise lies...

All truth...

All lies...

Both when I was an atheist...
And now that I know better...

Arsenios

 

[bhsmte]

Truth...

I love truth...

I despise lies...

All truth...

All lies...

Both when I was an atheist...
And now that I know better...

Arsenios

What truth?

 

[Arsenios]

Anyone can make a claim about something that is unfalsifiable.

Yes, I agree...
That is the problem with believing that one's existence terminates at death...
If you believe that, then you are a nihilist, btw...
How can you falsify such a belief?
Where are your witnesses?

Or the belief that there is no such thing as spiritual existence...
Such a belief is unfalsifiable until you experience it...
After such experience, you simply know better...

And even the material world we do sensually know, we only know in utterly superficial part - We see shapes and colors and experience tactile sensations and smells and tastes, which surfaces prevent our perceptions from seeing the other 99+% of what is in front of us, and at the molecular level, relative movement and distances with respect to sizes of "particles" are even more radical by a factor of a lot, and the particles themselves mush over into disembodied energy swirls... As the components of materiality get infinitely smaller and smaller...

What we do know about death is that the body in it is no longer animated by its life-force, the soul...
So we can conclude that it is a separation of the soul from the body...
We can conclude that the body then can decompose...
We cannot conclude anything about the soul except that it disappears...
We have no further public evidence...

The so-called public evidence of seances and mediums is garbage...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

What truth?

All truth...


Arsenios

 

[ScottA]

Whut?

What you may (apparently) not realize is that living in the world was and is a death sentence. Because of what happened before the foundation of the world, what we call life, is rather the walking dead - a slow death. What we have been saying...is there is an appeal that we can make to have our sentence pardoned. It happens during these times while one is still a member of the walking dead, still prisoners: We can become a new, eternal, spiritual, creation that is born within us that never dies...and when the end of this sentence is fulfilled, we can return home.

So, what I have been saying is...we have been talking to you as the living talking to the dead - because that is exactly the truth of it. And, if you do allow for that new creation to be born within you - it is that new you that can see what we have been telling you.

 

[ScottA]

Yes, I already consider demonstrations that are limited to the physical realm. If you can suggest how I can consider demonstrations outside it, I'm happy to do that too.

First you need to understand what it is you are saying: "demon"stration. Demon activity is limited to this world - so - "demon-showing" you the realm of heaven is an oxymoron, an impossibility...it ain't going to happen. Hear, hear.

I can explain how it can happen...and I have, but that would mean, you accepting the terms.

Still want to talk?

 

[ScottA]

You have no evidence that aliens didnt visit me last night and made it clear, there is no god and they created this universe.

Therefore, your lack of belief in aliens creating this universe, is loaded with faith.

See how anyone can make a claim about something that is unfalsifiable and it is just as credible as your claims?

There is evidence - but you have refused to accept the terms of viewing it.

So...yes...anyone in this place that you have limited yourself to...can indeed claim anything - because you have no way of knowing the truth. We do - but you do not, and will not, as long as you set limits against it.

 

[bhsmte]

There is evidence - but you have refused to accept the terms of viewing it.

So...yes...anyone in this place that you have limited yourself to...can indeed claim anything - because you have no way of knowing the truth. We do - but you do not, and will not, as long as you set limits against it.

What evidence?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

First you need to understand what it is you are saying: "demon"stration. Demon activity is limited to this world - so - "demon-showing" you the realm of heaven is an oxymoron, an impossibility...it ain't going to happen. Hear, hear.

Tsk! whatever happened to a good classical education? 'demonstrate' is from the Latin demonstratus, past participle of demonstrare; a compound of de (about) + monstrare (to show). No demons involved. Are you sure you're OK? seeing demonic messages in the everyday isn't a good sign...

I can explain how it can happen...and I have, but that would mean, you accepting the terms.

Still want to talk?

There are 'terms'? smells like a red-herring. Just explain, if you can.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

That is the problem with believing that one's existence terminates at death...

I don't personally know anyone who claims to have knowledge about what happens at death. Non theists might assume that our existence is terminated, but of course that doesn't translate into knowledge.

If you believe that, then you are a nihilist, btw...

As I've pointed out before, this is completely untrue.

 

[HitchSlap]

Truth...

I love truth...

I despise lies...

All truth...

All lies...

Both when I was an atheist...
And now that I know better...

Arsenios

Great! Now we have somewhere to go.

In your opinion, what's the best way to determine truth?

 

[Arsenios]

Great! Now we have somewhere to go.

In your opinion, what's the best way to determine truth?

By paying attention...

btw -

Do I have the honor of actually corresponding with Ol' Hitch-Slap Hisse'f??

I'm not WORTHY!



Arsenios

 

[HitchSlap]

By paying attention...

btw -

Do I have the honor of actually corresponding with Ol' Hitch-Slap Hisse'f??

I'm not WORTHY!



Arsenios

Paying attention is a start. What then after you've observed something?
What's the best way to evaluate if you're being fooled or not?

 

[ScottA]

What evidence?

What are we talking about?

 

[ScottA]

Tsk! whatever happened to a good classical education? 'demonstrate' is from the Latin demonstratus, past participle of demonstrare; a compound of de (about) + monstrare (to show). No demons involved. Are you sure you're OK? seeing demonic messages in the everyday isn't a good sign...

The coinkydink is on you. I simply explained the truth.

There are 'terms'? smells like a red-herring. Just explain, if you can.

I did explain...but you were too busy being cute and chuckling at your own jokes. It's no laughing matter.

The world in which we live is our grave...and you cannot and will not see beyond it unless you are born again of the spirit of God. This I "know", not just because I read what was written of it and "believed" it, but because it has happened to me personally. As such, I can indeed tell you of it, but can only tell you - you cannot leave the grave you are in to actually see what I am talking about, unless you too, die to your physical self and are born out of this world and into the greater realm of God.

Believe it or not.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Believe it or not.

No one is going to, because you're unable to give a good reason to believe.