How does one come to believe something?

[ToddNotTodd]

#2. I have reasoned that there is something beyond the physical world; that it is ridiculous to demand physical proof and demonstrations about that something that is not physical; and the difference between "believing" and actually "knowing."

#3. I have referred to the written testimonies that have been given all throughout history that agree with my own testimony.

#5. I have pointed out your error of expecting a physically logical explanation about a non-physical topic...and the insane nature of repeating it.

Finally, now we're getting somewhere...

#2 I don't recall hearing you give good evidence that there's putative non physical things. But I'm intrigued if you have any.

#3 All religions have adherents with similar stories. And I bet I can find Christians who have stories that differ from yours in significant ways. So you'll need to show why consistency in other religions isn't evidence that they're true while yours is, and you'll need to explain how a Christian can have a story that disagrees with you

#5. See number 2, with the caveat that I don't think "physically logical explanation" is anything different than just saying "logical explanation".

 

[ScottA]

Finally, now we're getting somewhere...

#2 I don't recall hearing you give good evidence that there's putative non physical things. But I'm intrigued if you have any.

#3 All religions have adherents with similar stories. And I bet I can find Christians who have stories that differ from yours in significant ways. So you'll need to show why consistency in other religions isn't evidence that they're true while yours is, and you'll need to explain how a Christian can have a story that disagrees with you

#5. See number 2, with the caveat that I don't think "physically logical explanation" is anything different than just saying "logical explanation".

#2 I would have to point out that it is reasonable that there are things which you have not seen, and this being one of them, I cannot show you what you cannot see.

I have also explained that there is a way to see the unseen, but as yet, you have not been willing to go where one must to see.

#3 No, I do not need to show you anything. And if you find the many claims confusing, I understand, but I have given you many clues to the challenge that you face.

As for Christians having different stories - we are different. We are as one body, but many [different] members, viewing things completely different. But this is not a reasonable point that you make: many things are different this way and the same corporately. For instance, if four people were riding in a car together, one looking forward, one back, and the other two looking to the different sides - their story of what they saw would be completely different, and yet all true and each is something to be heard, if you are at all interested in their journey.

#5 That is where you are wrong - more wrong than apples and screwdrivers. The one is physical with its own set of logic, and the other is not physical and shares none of that logic (except in parable - which I have offered numerous times).

 

[HitchSlap]

#2 I would have to point out that it is reasonable that there are things which you have not seen, and this being one of them, I cannot show you what you cannot see.

I have also explained that there is a way to see the unseen, but as yet, you have not been willing to go where one must to see.

#3 No, I do not need to show you anything. And if you find the many claims confusing, I understand, but I have given you many clues to the challenge that you face.

As for Christians having different stories - we are different. We are as one body, but many [different] members, viewing things completely different. But this is not a reasonable point that you make: many things are different this way and the same corporately. For instance, if four people were riding in a car together, one looking forward, one back, and the other two looking to the different sides - their story of what they saw would be completely different, and yet all true and each is something to be heard, if you are at all interested in their journey.

#5 That is where you are wrong - more wrong than apples and screwdrivers. The one is physical with its own set of logic, and the other is not physical and shares none of that logic (except in parable - which I have offered numerous times).

LOL.

 

[ScottA]

Supernatural faith is gullibility.

You have dismissed every part but your own.

If I were dead, and you alive...how would you communicate all that you know to me, how would you demonstrate or prove it?

Is my scenario too difficult for you to grasp? Why? People are alive, and people die all the time. The two are a fact of life - are you going to tell me you cannot prove the one to the other?

Expand your thinking.

 

[HitchSlap]

You have dismissed every part but your own.

If I were dead, and you alive...how would you communicate all that you know to me, how would you demonstrate or prove it?

Is my scenario too difficult for you to grasp? Why? People are alive, and people die all the time. The two are a fact of life - are you going to tell me you cannot prove the one to the other?

Expand you thinking.

I dismiss your quasi-metaphysical woo woo as the nonsense it is.

LOL

 

[ScottA]

I dismiss your quasi-metaphysical woo woo as the nonsense it is.

LOL

Staying small is a choice.

 

[HitchSlap]

Staying small is a choice.

And not one I recommend, but to each his own. Unfortunately for you, my B.S. detector is well oiled and works just fine.

 

[quatona]

You have dismissed every part but your own.

If I were dead, and you alive...how would you communicate all that you know to me, how would you demonstrate or prove it?

Is my scenario too difficult for you to grasp? Why? People are alive, and people die all the time. The two are a fact of life - are you going to tell me you cannot prove the one to the other?

Expand your thinking.

If I were alive and you were dead I wouldn´t try to communicate with you, at all. I wouldn´t try to tell you how dead you are, and I wouldn´t tell you to expand your thinking.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

... the difference between "believing" and actually "knowing."

The difference is that 'believing' is accepting something as true, and 'knowing' is having justified true belief.

So for knowledge it is necessary (but not sufficient) that what you believe is demonstrably true and that you have good reason (i.e. evidence) to believe that it is true.

 

[ScottA]

If I were alive and you were dead I wouldn´t try to communicate with you, at all. I wouldn´t try to tell you how dead you are, and I wouldn´t tell you to expand your thinking.

And what if you too were once dead yourself and saw others in the same predicament?

 

[ScottA]

The difference is that 'believing' is accepting something as true, and 'knowing' is having justified true belief.

So for knowledge it is necessary (but not sufficient) that what you believe is demonstrably true and that you have good reason (i.e. evidence) to believe that it is true.

All well and good, but are you prepared to expand your thinking to considered that "demonstrations" are limited to the physical realm?

 

[Arsenios]

Supernatural faith is gullibility.

So is faith in reason...

I must confess that you are a far greater man of faith...
Than I will ever be...

Arsenios

 

[HitchSlap]

So is faith in reason...

I must confess that you are a far greater man of faith...
Than I will ever be...

Arsenios

Which is to say, you have no faith at all, then.

Got it.

 

[bhsmte]

So is faith in reason...

I must confess that you are a far greater man of faith...
Than I will ever be...

Arsenios

I always get a kick, when theists say this about non believers.

 

[Arsenios]

Which is to say, you have no faith at all, then.

Got it.

I am the most faithless Christian I know...

None whatsoever...

Get it?
Got it?
Que bueno!

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

I always get a kick, when theists say this about non believers.

Well, you believe you are going to die and that there will be no more existence for you...
You believe this without evidence...
I used to believe the same...
I once had your great faith...

Your faith is greater than mine now is...
More courageous!
Less evidence!
More or less...

Arsenios

 

[quatona]

And what if you too were once dead yourself and saw others in the same predicament?

Whut?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

... are you prepared to expand your thinking to considered that "demonstrations" are limited to the physical realm?

Yes, I already consider demonstrations that are limited to the physical realm. If you can suggest how I can consider demonstrations outside it, I'm happy to do that too.

 

[HitchSlap]

I am the most faithless Christian I know...

None whatsoever...

Get it?
Got it?
Que bueno!

Arsenios

What's your excuse, then?

 

[bhsmte]

Well, you believe you are going to die and that there will be no more existence for you...
You believe this without evidence...
I used to believe the same...
I once had your great faith...

Your faith is greater than mine now is...
More courageous!
Less evidence!
More or less...

Arsenios

You have no evidence that aliens didnt visit me last night and made it clear, there is no god and they created this universe.

Therefore, your lack of belief in aliens creating this universe, is loaded with faith.

See how anyone can make a claim about something that is unfalsifiable and it is just as credible as your claims?