Resurrection - Eternal Life

[John Davidson]

Sorry to hear that.

Allow me a question: Are you fearful of death and the aftermath, or of the process of dying? I do not fear being before Eternal God as my judge, but I'm a little uneasy about some potential means of dying - like slow cancer or green rot or something.

Hi Archie,
I guess I fear everything that has to do with death, the entire process. I fear the pain and sickness of death and I also fear what happens in the afterlife.

I'm actually terrified of this to the point where I almost have panic and anxiety attacks.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Hi Archie, I guess I fear everything that has to do with death, the entire process.

Well, yuck.

Be of good cheer. God's grace and love is with you, even though you may doubt it at the moment.

I presume you have committed yourself to God's mercy and love? (Just want to be sure where both of us stand.)

 

[John Davidson]

Well, yuck.

Be of good cheer. God's grace and love is with you, even though you may doubt it at the moment.

I presume you have committed yourself to God's mercy and love? (Just want to be sure where both of us stand.)

Yes, I have been a strong Christian for many years. I go to Church every Sunday.

I guess my faith is a little weak though because I find myself having doubts.

 

[LastSeven]

The reason I made this thread is because I struggle with fear of death.

So I thought that this thread may encourage me and bring me peace.

I am still hoping for some more replies.

Oh. Why didn't you say so?

First of all, when you die, your consciousness stops. You do not suddenly leave your body in a spirit form and go to heaven or hell. If you did, that would make the judgment pointless (as you'd have to be judged the moment you die) and it would also make the resurrection pointless because the point of the resurrection is to be turned into a spirit. So dying is just like going to sleep. You will literally know nothing. I can send you an easy to read Bible study I did on this topic if you're interested.

But one day, you'll wake up, along with literally everybody else (both the righteous and the wicked). And as long as you've accepted Christ, and genuinely tried to live your life as though you've accepted him (simply saying it doesn't count), then your name will be written in the book of life. In other words, there's nothing to fear.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Actually, "soul sleep" is not Traditionally taught by the Church.

I don't wish to go into too many details, but our Tradition believes that each person has an angel assigned to them, and this angel will be with us at that time. God does not leave us alone and comfort less.

One thing I have noticed - sometimes within Orthodox circles they publish pictures of the memorial service of monks, nuns, priests, or others - and the smile on so many if their faces is very reassuring.

 

[John Davidson]

Oh. Why didn't you say so?

First of all, when you die, your consciousness stops. You do not suddenly leave your body in a spirit form and go to heaven or hell. If you did, that would make the judgment pointless (as you'd have to be judged the moment you die) and it would also make the resurrection pointless because the point of the resurrection is to be turned into a spirit. So dying is just like going to sleep. You will literally know nothing. I can send you an easy to read Bible study I did on this topic if you're interested.

But one day, you'll wake up, along with literally everybody else (both the righteous and the wicked). And as long as you've accepted Christ, and genuinely tried to live your life as though you've accepted him (simply saying it doesn't count), then your name will be written in the book of life. In other words, there's nothing to fear.

If this is the case then why did Jesus tell the theif on the cross, "Today you will be with me in paradise"?

 

[John Davidson]

I've always been under the impression that when we die our spirits go to heaven and then when Jesus returns we are reunited with our bodies.

 

[All4Christ]

I've always been under the impression that when we die our spirits go to heaven and then when Jesus returns we are reunited with our bodies.

That's more in line with the traditional beliefs of Christianity. Soul sleep is not the belief traditionally held by the church.

 

[LastSeven]

If this is the case then why did Jesus tell the theif on the cross, "Today you will be with me in paradise"?

I'm not sure. This is one of those difficult verses to reconcile with the rest of scripture, but when the vast majority of scripture says we have no consciousness upon death, then we have to interpret the few in light of the many.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm not sure. This is one of those difficult verses to reconcile with the rest of scripture, but when the vast majority of scripture says we have no consciousness upon death, then we have to interpret the few in light of the many.

Scripture never says we have no consciousness upon death only the body ceases to have consciousness. All scriptures mentioning the person's spirit or soul after death show them fully conscious and I mean every single scripture. Never is a spirit or soul shown to be unconscious.

 

[LastSeven]

I've always been under the impression that when we die our spirits go to heaven and then when Jesus returns we are reunited with our bodies.

That's what most people believe. Doesn't mean this is what scripture teaches. In fact, even without delving too deep into the scriptures it's pretty plain to see that this doesn't make a lot of sense.

Think about it. If you go to heaven when you die, doesn't that mean you've already been judged and deemed worthy to enter into heaven? And that being the case, what's the point of the judgment before the new earth? Secondly, if you are already a spirit, then why would you need to be changed into a spirit upon the resurrection? In fact, why would you need to be resurrected at all?

Paul tells us that we are sewn a natural body, raised a spiritual body. 1 Corinthians 15. In fact, he says it several times. He's very clear that we are changed from natural into spiritual upon the resurrection. There's no doubt about it. The entire point of the resurrection is to destroy death by becoming immortal spirits. So if we are already spirits before the resurrection, then this entire chapter is nonsense.

No, the Bible is full of examples that tell us what happens to us when we die. Even in Genesis God said "from dust you came and to dust you will return", and King Solomon said "the dead know nothing". There are many more such examples.

 

[LastSeven]

Never is a spirit or soul shown to be unconscious.

Don't base your faith on what others believe. Base it on the scriptures.

First of all, don't confuse the words spirit and soul. We are a soul. A "soul" is a living creature, which means even animals are souls. When God breathed life into Adam "he became a living soul". Genesis 2:7

Spirit is what we will become when we are resurrected. 1 Corinthians 15:44. So we have no spirit, we have only natural bodies.

Here are three examples that show the dead are unconscious.

Psalm 115:17
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

Psalm 146:4
When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing

 

[LastSeven]

That's more in line with the traditional beliefs of Christianity. Soul sleep is not the belief traditionally held by the church.

What matters more to you? What the church traditionally believed, or what the Bible says today?

 

[LastSeven]

All scriptures mentioning the person's spirit or soul after death show them fully conscious and I mean every single scripture.

Every single scripture? And how many such scriptures are there that show a person's spirit fully conscious after death?

 

[All4Christ]

What matters more to you? What the church traditionally believed, or what the Bible says today?

In this case, what the church traditionally believed IS what the Bible says.

 

[ewq1938]

Don't base your faith on what others believe. Base it on the scriptures.

That's what I do. No scripture supports soul sleep.

First of all, don't confuse the words spirit and soul. We are a soul.

Soul has two meanings. We are a soul, but we also have a soul. The two soul's are different. The bodiless souls in heaven are fully alert and can even speak and are aware of Earthly events, as shown in the 5th seal.

Spirit is what we will become when we are resurrected. 1 Corinthians 15:44. So we have no spirit, we have only natural bodies.

That's incorrect. We have a spirit and a soul. A complete person is body soul and spirit.

1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Here are three examples that show the dead are unconscious.

Psalm 115:17
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

Psalm 146:4
When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing

All speaking of the human body not the person in the afterlife.

Moses died yet he came to speak with Christ. The souls of the saints in heaven are alert and speak, 5th seal. The rich man and Lazarus are described as alert and awake after death. Again, not a single verse address the state of a person in the afterlife shows them sleeping. They all show alertness.

Don't base your faith on what others believe. Base it on the scriptures, specifically properly understanding the scriptures.

 

[ewq1938]

Every single scripture?

Yes.

 

[LastSeven]

In this case, what the church traditionally believed IS what the Bible says.

Well, that's debatable, but also doesn't answer my question. You should always go to the scriptures for the answers, not the church. They could be wrong, and you have the power to see for yourself. Why waste it?

 

[LastSeven]

Yes.

Feel free to show me some examples.

 

[ewq1938]

Feel free to show me some examples.

Post 36