Should Christians Choose Between the Lesser of Two Evil's in the 2016 Election ?

[tatteredsoul]

Read the quote i posted again.

The Bible admonishes us to use the wisdom, discernment, and clarity that God has given us.

To be passive, naive, or withdrawing is enabling evil to prevail.

SPIRITUAL passivity is wrong; carnal passivity (like voting for a human who will rule over an earthly kingdom) is neither here or there to God. Unless He tells us specifically to get involved, our focus is spiritually.

Voting for a man who will rule a kingdom that is one of many ruled by the "prince of darkness" is not a godly priority. The energy used to fight for, defend, and extol these humans is a waste.

Again, the OP is drawing attention to the repetitive culture of voting for the lesser of two evils - which usually means voting for someone that fits in our social, religious, educational and familiar boxes. That blind practice needs to have attention brought to it so that people may be more educated in general. Simply voting because "'Merica!" is not wise at all, and not Godly.

You can abstain from voting; that is part of your RIGHT to vote. You aren't FORCED to vote for less of anything. In some areas, you can even write the name of your choice in.

Either way, you are responsible for the choices you make - active or passive.

 

[brinny]

SPIRITUAL passivity is wrong; carnal passivity (like voting for a human who will rule over an earthly kingdom) is neither here or there to God. Unless He tells us specifically to get involved, our focus is spiritually.

Voting for a man who will rule a kingdom that is one of many ruled by the "prince of darkness" is not a godly priority. The energy used to fight for, defend, and extol these humans is a waste.

Again, the OP is drawing attention to the repetitive culture of voting for the lesser of two evils - which usually means voting for someone that fits in our social, religious, educational and familiar boxes. That blind practice needs to have attention brought to it so that people may be more educated in general. Simply voting because "'Merica!" is not wise at all, and not Godly.

You can abstain from voting; that is part of your RIGHT to vote. You aren't FORCED to vote for less of anything. In some areas, you can even write the name of your choice in.

Either way, you are responsible for the choices you make - active or passive.

Abstaining from voting empowers evil. It's the equivalent of voting for evil.

To passively allow evil to thrive and flourish is aiding and abetting that evil.

Read the quote again.

 

[tatteredsoul]

Abstaining from voting empowers evil. It's the equivalent of voting for evil.

To passively allow evil to thrive and flourish is aiding and abetting that evil.

Read the quote again.

So, let's go back to 2000's Florida. My vote is somewhere in a vault.

How did I, or did I not empower evil by having my vote not counted?


Your premise only works if we ignore exactly 100% of the corruption of American political system, voting system, and the use of neo-demagoguery and money influences. That is the only way that works.

So you have a point, but your mind is in the wrong place. Your idealism is for spirituality. That is why I said this logic is irrelevant in a situation where you are working for a system that is primarily working for the prince of darkness.

If you think good people who do "nothing" are actually doing nothing because it seems passive, there is a problem. Abstainance is a technical protest against a system - is isnt a lame gesture.

Abstaining is a technical protest.

Abstaining is one of three choices (technically four) offered under the right to vote. To admonish someone who abstain from voting is to admonish someone who votes for "him," or "the other guy." The net effect is useless because the evidence that the votes don't matter is clear; everything else is literally for show. Otherwise, the States would not have been in a dual monarchy of Clinton and Bush's for the past 30 years...

 

[ScottA]

Did I say any of that?

But let's not act like God is SLOW, or that He is intellectually impotent. He can put whomever He wants to use in power for whatever reason. He has done it. He did NOT need Hebrew vote, a majority or a quorum to do this. So, saying, "He allows us to vote..." is redundant without realizing the point: you are allowed to do whatever He allows - including evil. But, that does not mean He won't judge you for your actions. If you believe it is a Godly duty of men to vote for other men to rule over them, then that is your call. But, I remember God adminishing the Hebrews for this very thing after they whined about being like the world - having a man king to rule over them.

What I said, meant and insinuated is I wouldn't risk my soul voting for evil just because that is what is done -÷ for tradition. I don't think anyone should. The OP challenges the status quo of blind and compulsive voting based on generations of tradition. I support that.

Yes...in a manner of speaking, you did say that, by saying you would not vote. God could have just as easily not offered the election of who would vote (so to speak) for Him and who would vote for Satan in the world - and we know what those who do not vote for God will receive. But, such as the world or this little political election is, it is God who has allowed it just as it is.

Nonetheless, we are not voting for "a man to rule over us" - but for a man to "serve" us. And these are whom God has served up.

Pharaoh or the desert, you choose - but, hey, go ahead, don't vote.

 

[brinny]

So, let's go back to 2000's Florida. My vote is somewhere in a vault.

How did I, or did I not empower evil by having my vote not counted?


Your premise only works if we ignore exactly 100% of the corruption of American political system, voting system, and the use of neo-demagoguery and money influences. That is the only way that works.

So you have a point, but your mind is in the wrong place. Your idealism is for spirituality. That is why I said this logic is irrelevant in a situation where you are working for a system that is primarily working for the prince of darkness.

If you think good people who do "nothing" are actually doing nothing because it seems passive, there is a problem. Abstainance is a technical protest against a system - is isnt a lame gesture.

Abstaining is a technical protest.

Abstaining is one of three choices (technically four) offered under the right to vote. To admonish someone who abstain from voting is to admonish someone who votes for "him," or "the other guy." The net effect is useless because the evidence that the votes don't matter is clear; everything else is literally for show. Otherwise, the States would not have been in a dual monarchy of Clinton and Bush's for the past 30 years...

Read the quote again.

 

[tatteredsoul]

Yes...in a manner of speaking, you did say that, by saying you would not vote. God could have just as easily not offered the election of who would vote (so to speak) for Him and who would vote for Satan in the world - and we know what those who do not vote for God will receive. But, such as the world or this little political election is, it is God who has allowed it just as it is.

Nonetheless, we are not voting for "a man to rule over us" - but for a man to "serve" us. And these are whom God has served up.

Pharaoh or the desert, you choose - but, hey, go ahead, don't vote.

In a matter of speaking... so that is a no.

It doesn't matter what you think Pharaoh''s job should be, it is what it is and what he does. So, you can't just will the president to serve you when it has been clear the job of the president has been to serve you much less than it is to serve certain persons and industries.

I don't know if it was this thread or another, but someone else made a similar point, and I also told them this: you have to ignore exactly 100% of the corruption in American politics and voting structure to have the rationale about abstaining as you do. There is no other way.

And Egypt was not a democratic process. Don't even compare the two: one is a Godly decree and the other is earthly government.

For example, there was no vote; you either marked your door with the blood of a lamb or lose your first born. That was Hebrew and Egyptian alike. You always have a choice. Egypt was a choice.


Abstainence is a technical protest. And, what happened to those that "technically protested" God''s command? They all had choice, and we are all responsible for those choices. If it turns out a vote for Hillary, or Trump means the end of the world as we know it, you don't get to hide your hands if you voted for whoever caused it. If a vote for Trump or Hillary turns out to mean the world is a utopia for 4,000 years, you don't necessarily get to claim that progress if you abstained. But, this is par the course when you are dealing in earthly/carnal matters. You are responsible for your choices.

Abstinence is a technical protest. It doesn't bar responsibility.

 

[stephen583]

Right now the DNC is railing about Melania Trump's "plagiarizing" Michelle Obama's speech. I agree it was so similar (to the words and phrases), it is a clear cut case of plagiarism, but what if it was actually intentional ???

Was Melania's speech scripted by the Trump campaign to deliberately infuriate the Democrats and seize control of the DNC counter-narrative during the RNC Convention ? What else could it be, except a cynical parody of Michelle Obama meant to infuriate the Democrats ? Does anyone here actually believe it could have been a co-incidence ? It was so flagrant, it had to be intentional, right ?... So right now, Trump and the RNC are laughing their rear ends off at the DNC because they fell for Trump's trap.

If this is the case, it merely underscores what a despicable and conniving person Donald Trump is, and the extent he will stoop to in order to get elected president. Even his own wife's reputation is expendable. That's really EVIL. Trump has also said he will bring back "water boarding" of suspected terrorists. I can't vote for anyone who says they are going to torture other human beings, no matter what the reason is. That's not who we are supposed to be.

Plus, no matter how evil and conniving Trump is, I think Vladimir Putin would EAT HIM ALIVE. Hillary Clinton won't fair much better. I believe whoever gets elected in November, is going to have to deal with Putin when he pulls the nuclear trigger, as he has threatened to do on so many occasions. Putin recently said, "If Hillary Clinton is elected, it means War between the United States and Russia".

 

[KWCrazy]

So, let's go back to 2000's Florida. My vote is somewhere in a vault.
How did I, or did I not empower evil by having my vote not counted?

Everyone smart enough to punch a ballot had their vote counted.
Many votes were counted where the "voter" didn't correctly know how to punch a ballot.
People who voted for all Democrats but didn't vote for Al Gore had their vote cast for him anyway.
When the legal votes ran out they counted illegal votes.
But let's be honest.
"Count all the votes," only applied to the votes in four counties where Al Gore won in a landslide.
It was never about counting all the votes. It was always about using statistical sampling to cull for Gore votes out of ballots where no presidential selection was recorded.
Al Gore lied.
The media lied.
Most Democrats lied.
People on the internet lied.
Democrats attempted to change election law after the fact so they could steal the election.
They lost, they lied. They cheated, they legislated, they still lost.
They're still lying.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So for the first time in my adult life, I have decided I WILL NOT CAST ANY VOTE.

What do you think ?!

GOOD!
(PRAY always, instead of participating in 'worldly concerns'/entanglements in which you (we) never had a say anyway)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Read the quote i posted again.
The Bible admonishes us to use the wisdom, discernment, and clarity that God has given us.
To be passive, naive, or withdrawing is enabling evil to prevail.

Do what the followers of Jesus did in the New Testament (NOT what most americans do).

 

[tatteredsoul]

...but it is equally true that a message is being sent, small and insignificant as it may seem that at least one voter has found both major party candidates to be repugnant.

And that important message is deep: part of it you are highlighting as what it truly means to have every vote matter. The OP at least got you to think beyond the status quo you have known for so long, without necessarily trying to chage your mind.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

We have two candidates; one known and one unknown.
What is known about Hillary is that she swore under oath to tell the truth and then lied.
We know that she was so afraid people would her her secret emails that she violated the law and set up her own server. We know that she withheld emails under subpoena and destroyed thousands rather than turn them in as the law requires.
In short, we know that she committed crimes which would have landed anyone else in prison.
We know that electing her would be a continuation of Obummer's failed policies.

We know that Trump is a successful businessman. We know that his experiences with politicians involves buying them and using them to get what he needs. We know that he has no particular loyalty to anyone, and that as a true outsider he will either be able to get real reforms accomplished or he will fall on his proverbial face and be ineffective against the Washington political machine. So Trump is a maybe and Hillary is an Absolutely Not!

Hillary supports the wholesale slaughter of the unborn. Trump does not.
Hillary would appoint radical judges to the Supreme Court, thus erasing any hope of maintaining the Constitution as we know it. Trump will appoint Constitutional originalists.

Neither candidate brings sound moral character to the office.
Neither candidate represents the kind of role model we want for our children. However Trump's failings are more personal sins whereas Hillary's are are felonies. For these reasons, Trump is the only rational choice. If America wanted integrity, they should have supported Huckabee.

I think we have more than 2. poor old Gary Johnson.

 

[Goodbook]

Im not american but I would not vote if i was.
We have been praying about this issue in our bible study as one of the ladies is from america.

In the last election we had here I did not vote. The politicians are corrupt.
Whoever gets into power you need to pray anyway. Which is more powerful than voting for someone. Dont do nothing...pray!

 

[KWCrazy]

I think we have more than 2. poor old Gary Johnson.

You may as well write in your father and get used to saying "President Clinton."

 

[stephen583]

Do you think Putin will bomb Canada if Hillary is elected ? How about New Zealand ? How long does it take now to get a passport anyways ?!

 

[pdudgeon]

I am greatly disturbed and at odds as to how to resolve this issue. This election in November has been characterized by American voter's as a choice between "two evils". Should Christians be voting in such an election ? Wouldn't we be voting for "Evil" in either circumstance ?...

I've heard plenty of CF members express their conviction to vote for one or the other of the candidates. I did the same a few weeks ago, but now as the election draws nearer, my conscience is saying NO. I seriously don't believe I can walk into an election booth and pull a lever in support of someone who represents something that is patently "evil".

So for the first time in my adult life, I have decided I WILL NOT CAST ANY VOTE.

What do you think ?!

let's put it this way....somebody is going to win.
so at this point it's time to start thinking about survival,
and choosing the candidate who gives you the best chance of
doing just that.

 

[tatteredsoul]

let's put it this way....somebody is going to win.
so at this point it's time to start thinking about survival,
and choosing the candidate who gives you the best chance of
doing just that.

So... Lord of the Flies?

 

[Philip_B]

My friends in the USA. At one level it is none of my business, because whoever succeeds will be President of the USA. None the less the President of the USA has a significant impact on the stability of the world. We in Australia had an election a couple of weeks ago, and we are likely to know the outcome of that in a couple of weeks time - our voting system has problems as well. Like you, we had a awkward choice - which one wag described as the choice between chuck or chunder (two words which I think you would translate each as puke).

Please pray for the outcome. We, the people of the world, need leaders in high office who will seek peace and pursue it. Lets all pray for a miracle.

 

[ScottA]

In a matter of speaking... so that is a no.

It doesn't matter what you think Pharaoh''s job should be, it is what it is and what he does. So, you can't just will the president to serve you when it has been clear the job of the president has been to serve you much less than it is to serve certain persons and industries.

I don't know if it was this thread or another, but someone else made a similar point, and I also told them this: you have to ignore exactly 100% of the corruption in American politics and voting structure to have the rationale about abstaining as you do. There is no other way.

And Egypt was not a democratic process. Don't even compare the two: one is a Godly decree and the other is earthly government.

For example, there was no vote; you either marked your door with the blood of a lamb or lose your first born. That was Hebrew and Egyptian alike. You always have a choice. Egypt was a choice.


Abstainence is a technical protest. And, what happened to those that "technically protested" God''s command? They all had choice, and we are all responsible for those choices. If it turns out a vote for Hillary, or Trump means the end of the world as we know it, you don't get to hide your hands if you voted for whoever caused it. If a vote for Trump or Hillary turns out to mean the world is a utopia for 4,000 years, you don't necessarily get to claim that progress if you abstained. But, this is par the course when you are dealing in earthly/carnal matters. You are responsible for your choices.

Abstinence is a technical protest. It doesn't bar responsibility.

You are correct to say that abstaining is not a choice. But I am telling you that to do so, is to beat your donkey (Numbers 22), "for he who is not against us, is on our side Luke 9:50.

 

[pdudgeon]

Right now the DNC is railing about Melania Trump's "plagiarizing" Michelle Obama's speech. I agree it was so similar (to the words and phrases), it is a clear cut case of plagiarism, but what if it was actually intentional ???

Was Melania's speech scripted by the Trump campaign to deliberately infuriate the Democrats and seize control of the DNC counter-narrative during the RNC Convention ? What else could it be, except a cynical parody of Michelle Obama meant to infuriate the Democrats ? Does anyone here actually believe it could have been a co-incidence ? It was so flagrant, it had to be intentional, right ?... So right now, Trump and the RNC are laughing their rear ends off at the DNC because they fell for Trump's trap.

If this is the case, it merely underscores what a despicable and conniving person Donald Trump is, and the extent he will stoop to in order to get elected president. Even his own wife's reputation is expendable. That's really EVIL. Trump has also said he will bring back "water boarding" of suspected terrorists. I can't vote for anyone who says they are going to torture other human beings, no matter what the reason is. That's not who we are supposed to be.

Plus, no matter how evil and conniving Trump is, I think Vladimir Putin would EAT HIM ALIVE. Hillary Clinton won't fair much better. I believe whoever gets elected in November, is going to have to deal with Putin when he pulls the nuclear trigger, as he has threatened to do on so many occasions. Putin recently said, "If Hillary Clinton is elected, it means War between the United States and Russia".

uhmmm, just in case you hadn't heard, Hillary intends to erase the curent limits on abortion, so there will be even more human beings tortured and killed under her watch than are being tortured and killed now.
if Hillary is elected it means open war against children in the US.
you should think about that because if she is elected that choice will have repercussions for the next 80+ years on every single person.