Gal 4 "under the Law" vs "under Grace" in Romans 6 and not sinning

[love2obey]

Maybe the remnant you know, if you know any, had a different experience than I did, but I doubt it.
I was saved from sin, from the penalty of sin, from the power of satan, from the power of the flesh, from the power of society and of the world, over 40 years ago.

So you found the Tree of Life and ate from it! In Christ, we find freedom from the condemnation of sin but we are not exonerated to sin. As long as satan is free, no one is saved. Redemption in Christ is being born again like when God created Adam and Eve until they felt to the devil. Like then when they didnt do God's will, they were found in sin. Today after accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, if we dont do the will of God, we will be found in sin.
Jesus was found without sin and is our redeemer today and forever because until the last breath of life in Him, He was tempted and never gave into sin. He always did His Father's will.
Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

 

[love2obey]

It is as plain as the nose on my face that you do not understand the plan of Salvation nor do you have the correct understanding of the Godhead.

I bet the different my friend. You present a Jesus that can do for me what God couldnt do for Adam and Eve and the rest of those before Jesus. I dont see God there. why? I dont see His love and mercy, true grace. It is sadly the teachings and beliefs of those who refuse to be hold accountable for their actions. AND THE BOOKS WILL BE OPEN for judgment.

 

[love2obey]

Amazing that you say the spirit uses the law as a guide. IOW the Holy Spirit refers us to the law. What a bunch of heuy. Yes we fully understand you don't think the NT is new. You think its a warmed over OC.

bugkiller

no my friend. that is not OT teaching. God has not evolved as sin has. We need to change and not God
Now that you refuse to see Jesus as a teacher of the law which He obeyed and was found without sin.
This is what Jesus Himself says about what will the Holy Spirit teach us
John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

As God, I dont accept that Jesus would ever changed what was already done by Himself neither would the Holy Spirit. If so, they are not one. It shows confusion and lack of knowledge in God. Plus, it makes a lair out of Himself. Number 23:19, Mal 3:6. The Highlighted text shows the true character of God, always continuing with His teachings as it was from the beginning.

 

[1John2:4]

No, I have no scripture. I don't believe there is any scripture indicating the other nine are moral either. The nine are how we relate to God and our fellow man. the Sabbath is how the Israelires related to the command to rest and remember. It also stated that Israelites were to labor six days. Do all you Sabbath commandment observers labor six days?
Shabbat is the most important ritual observance in Judaism. It is the only ritual observance instituted in the Ten Commandments. It is also the most important special day, even more important than Yom Kippur. This is clear from the fact that more aliyot (opportunities for congregants to be called up to the Torah) are given on Shabbat than on any other day.
http://www.jewfaq.org/shabbat.htm

Thanks for your reply. Why would you choose to believe in a doctrine with no scriptural basis? Shabbat, (Sabbath) if you would prefer, is a commandment not a ritual. The Sabbath has many rituals that were added by the Jewish people making it a burden. My mother is a practicing Jew so I am aware of the rituals. They have lighting Shabbat candles. The ritual of the washing of the hands (this is the one that Yeshua (Jesus) came against in Mark 7, breaking bread, wine. Some Orthodox Jews even tear the toilet paper before the Sabbath. Some miss the whole point by adding tradition. The Sabbath should be celebration, not be some burden. His Sabbaths should be a delight and they are for everyone. I am sure you have read Isaiah 56.

 

[1John2:4]

Its been way to long since I quoted -

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Rom 10

bugkiller

5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

[This root (tel-) means "reaching the end (aim)."

 

[1John2:4]

Please give me some scripture that tells us this. I thought Sabbath was about a day of rest, a day of commemoration of their freedom from bondage in Egypt and remembrance of creation.

Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. Exodus 20:9-11

 

[1John2:4]

How come God didn't ever ask any other nation to remember creation? We are all children of His creation. Why do you think that God wants gentiles today to do something He never asked them to do in all of history.

Isaiah 56
Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”


3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give thema]' data-fn="#fen-NKJV-18759a">[a] an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8 The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
“Yet I will gather to him
Others besides those who are gathered to him.”

 

[1John2:4]

Kinda reeks of telling those of us who do not buy into your brand of religion will have hard hearts and will come into calamity. I could post the same scripture to you, but I wouldn't do such a thing to anyone.

You said that you did not fear God in your post, that is why I posted the Proverb but if you prefer:

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7

Because they hated knowledge And did not choose the fear of the Lord, Proverbs 1:29

Then you will understand the fear of the Lord, And find the knowledge of God. Proverbs 2:5

Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the Lord and depart from evil. Proverbs 3:7

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. Proverbs 9:10

 

[bugkiller]

And the first Sabbath is in Gen 2:1-3 according to Ex 20:11 -- and there is no Jewish priest, no animal sacrifice -- and no sin.

What is more the fact that the first Sabbath is in sinless Eden is admitted to by a number of even pro-sunday scholars.

Not true.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

no my friend. that is not OT teaching. God has not evolved as sin has. We need to change and not God
Now that you refuse to see Jesus as a teacher of the law which He obeyed and was found without sin.
This is what Jesus Himself says about what will the Holy Spirit teach us
John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

As God, I dont accept that Jesus would ever changed what was already done by Himself neither would the Holy Spirit. If so, they are not one. It shows confusion and lack of knowledge in God. Plus, it makes a lair out of Himself. Number 23:19, Mal 3:6. The Highlighted text shows the true character of God, always continuing with His teachings as it was from the beginning.

Obviously John doesn't know or is lying when he says -

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. JN 1

Either way it makes his testimony false and unreliable as well as not being inspired Scripture according to you.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

[This root (tel-) means "reaching the end (aim)."

5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. Exodus 20:9-11

Why aren't you in compliance with your quote?

bugkiller

 

[love2obey]

Obviously John doesn't know or is lying when he says -

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. JN 1

Either way it makes his testimony false and unreliable as well as not being inspired Scripture according to you.

bugkiller

Just because our interpretation of the bible may not be cleared to us, it does not mean it is not clear for everyone to see.

 

[bugkiller]

Just because our interpretation of the bible may not be cleared to us, it does not mean it is not clear for everyone to see.

So discus JN 1:17.

bugkiller

 

[1John2:4]

Why aren't you in compliance with your quote?

Sorry Duplicate

 

[1John2:4]

Why aren't you in compliance with your quote?

bugkiller

Sorry Duplicate Post

 

[1John2:4]

Why aren't you in compliance with your quote?

bugkiller

Duplicate Post

 

[Bob S]

Why are you even on a Sabbath and law forum if you are so against keeping Gods laws ? We are all hear to learn and teach on this forum. I do believe if people are in error they should be corrected USING SCRIPTURE not sarcasm and pot shots, how does that help or grow the body of Christ ?

Okay, lets have a debate with scripture as the basis.

I would like to start off with Jesus own word about keeping commandments. I will answer your issues and I expect you to answer mine, Is that a deal?

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1. Jesus kept the Father's commandments and asked us to keep His commandments. The Father's commandments were Torah, what are Jesus commandments?

2. Why did Jesus differentiate between the two if as you have indicated we are under the same laws as was Jesus?

 

[Bob S]

Thanks for your reply. Why would you choose to believe in a doctrine with no scriptural basis? Shabbat, (Sabbath) if you would prefer, is a commandment not a ritual.

Pardon me for not answering your post to me. I just saw it.

A doctrine with no scriptural basis? I need more information to give you an answer. Thank you for clearing up your use of Shabbat. Did you not read the cut and paste I gleaned from a Jewish website? If Jews recognize that Sabbath is a ritual why would I deem it different. There are nine laws dealing with morality, how we treat God and our fellow man. One law that commemorates events. Both were to the Israelites Holy laws and I do not see the reason you would make it an issue.

The Sabbath has many rituals that were added by the Jewish people making it a burden.

My mother is a practicing Jew so I am aware of the rituals. They have lighting Shabbat candles. The ritual of the washing of the hands (this is the one that Yeshua (Jesus) came against in Mark 7, breaking bread, wine. Some Orthodox Jews even tear the toilet paper before the Sabbath. Some miss the whole point by adding tradition. The Sabbath should be celebration, not be some burden. His Sabbaths should be a delight and they are for everyone. I am sure you have read Isaiah 56.

Much is not recorded about the issues of Sabbath observance. First God told the Israelites to stay in their tents and rest on the Sabbath. Then for some unknown reason they were out and about, but not too far. Then they circumcised on Sabbath and marched around Jerico on Sabbath and then guards were given respite to guard David on the Sabbath. Levites were granted complete hiatus. You will have to admit that there was something different about Sabbaths, feasts and new moon celebrations. They could be broken, but moral laws dealing with fellow men were never allowed to be broken or changed.

 

[1John2:4]

Okay, lets have a debate with scripture as the basis.

I would like to start off with Jesus own word about keeping commandments. I will answer your issues and I expect you to answer mine, Is that a deal?

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1. Jesus kept the Father's commandments and asked us to keep His commandments. The Father's commandments were Torah, what are Jesus commandments?

2. Why did Jesus differentiate between the two if as you have indicated we are under the same laws as was Jesus?

Thank you, I would love to engage in a friendly debate with a brother in Christ.

Lets first establish that we agree that the Father and the Son are One (Ahad). Yeshua (Jesus) quotes the Father by reciting the Shema, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!" Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! Mark 12:29 This is the first and the greatest commandment.

1. I believe that the commandments are the same, Yeshua (Jesus) is the living word of God according to John 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. So Yeshua is the Torah, so I believe the standard of righteousness is the same now as was then. Therefore, Yeshua's commandments are the same as The Father because they are One.

Yeshua, who is also the living Torah is the way, the truth and the light. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, Who walk in the law of the Lord! Psalm 119:1, Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, And Your law is truth. Psalm 119:142, For the commandment is a lamp, And the law a light Reproofs of instruction are the way of life, Proverbs 6:23

He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” Matthew 19:17

2. The response for question two is defined by my response from question 1, I do not think God has two separate criteria to determine righteousness, righteousness is the light and in the light there is no darkness.

Question for you
1. Why do you believe the commandments of the Father are different from those of the Son?