The problem of evil

[Archaeopteryx]

You do know that there are a lot of scientists who are Christian...right? How do you know it wasn't Christian scientists who reported the science frauds?...[emoji4]

My friend, who is doing a PhD in cancer biology, is a Christian. Not a creationist.

 

[amariselle]

My friend, who is doing a PhD in cancer biology, is a Christian. Not a creationist.

How does that work exactly?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

How does that work exactly?

Not all Christians are creationists. Not all creationists are Christian.

 

[amariselle]

Not all Christians are creationists. Not all creationists are Christian.

And yet the Bible makes things pretty clear as to God creating the earth and everything that exists. I just wonder how a Christian can reject that.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

And yet the Bible makes things pretty clear as to God creating the earth and everything that exists. I just wonder how a Christian can reject that.

As I noted previously, not all Christians share your theology. He does not read Genesis literally, does not accept the account of a global flood, and rejects creationism.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Unlike religion, science doesn't need apologetics. But it does need those who appreciate the work of science to dispel myths, misconceptions, and pseudoscience, which incidentally often comes from religion (e.g., creationism).

Because that is fallacious. You don't know that they aren't being a "true Christian." They certainly think that they are. By contrast, we have ways of showing that a scientist's work is of poor quality, and we have processes for evaluating their scholarship. Your evaluative processes are tied to your theology, which is not universal even among your fellow Christians.

And all the missing link frauds are done by creationists too?

 

[amariselle]

Unlike religion, science doesn't need apologetics.

Apparently it does. There is certainly a lot of explaining to be done within the world of scientific study, that's for sure.

But it does need those who appreciate the work of science to dispel myths, misconceptions, and pseudoscience, which incidentally often comes from religion (e.g., creationism).

Really? All of the mistakes, fraud and misconceptions in science are the fault of religion and creationists? A convenient argument don't you think? You are so willing to dismiss the idea that there are any Christian scientists, unless there is a mistake made of course. After all, non-Christian scientists NEVER make mistakes....right. What a weak position. You can of course choose to believe this if it makes things easier for you. It is quite obviously a highly flawed attempt to defend an at times highly flawed field of study.

Because that is fallacious. You don't know that they aren't being a "true Christian." They certainly think that they are. By contrast, we have ways of showing that a scientist's work is of poor quality, and we have processes for evaluating their scholarship. Your evaluative processes are tied to your theology, which is not universal even among your fellow Christians.

Actually, Christians do know when someone who claims to be a Christian is not acting as one. The Bible makes it clear what someone must do or not do if they truly want to follow Jesus (be a Christian).

Theology may be flawed, just as science is, but the words of Jesus and early Christians are not. Christians (and non-Christians) can read the Bible and clearly know when a particular Christian's (or group of Christians') actions are not in obedience to Christ.

When Christians say that being violent and hateful or killing someone in Jesus' name is not being a true Christian, they are right. There is not one teaching of Jesus that advocates for violence or murder. Therefore, if someone chooses to act in this way and say they are obeying Jesus and doing such things in His name, they are mistaken and they are not being a true Christian. A true Christian follows Christ.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Apparently it does. There is certainly a lot of explaining to be done within the world of scientific study, that's for sure.

That's called education.

Really? All of the mistakes, fraud and misconceptions in science are the fault of religion and creationists? A convenient argument don't you think? You are so willing to dismiss the idea that there are any Christian scientists, unless there is a mistake made of course. After all, non-Christian scientists NEVER make mistakes....right. What a weak position. You can of course choose to believe this if it makes things easier for you. It is quite obviously a highly flawed attempt to defend an at times highly flawed field of study.

This is a strawman. I never denied that there are scientists who are also Christian. In fact, I mentioned one I know personally.

Actually, Christians do know when someone who claims to be a Christian is not acting as one. The Bible makes it clear what someone must do or not do if they truly want to follow Jesus (be a Christian).

Rubbish. What you consider important to being a good Christian may differ to the view of other Christians. Why do you think there are so many congregational subforums on this site? Because all Christians agree on what it means to be a Christian? Hardly...

When Christians say that being violent and hateful or killing someone in Jesus' name is not being a true Christian, they are right.

According to your theology, which isn't universal among Christians.

There is not one teaching of Jesus that advocates for violence or murder. Therefore, if someone chooses to act in this way and say they are obeying Jesus and doing such things in His name, they are mistaken and they are not being a true Christian.

So what? That's your evaluation, based on your theology. Their theology may tell them that such behaviour is justifiable.

 

[amariselle]

That's called education.

This is a strawman. I never denied that there are scientists who are also Christian. In fact, I mentioned one I know personally.

You clearly stated that the mistakes made in science are mostly due to religion and creationists. This is absolutely false. Call it a "strawman" all you like, it doesn't change what you said.

Rubbish. What you consider important to being a good Christian may differ to the view of other Christians. Why do you think there are so many congregational subforums on this site? Because all Christians agree on what it means to be a Christian? Hardly...

Call it whatever you want. Having theological differences does not automatically mean that some Christians are okay with killing people. Another convenient argument.

According to your theology, which isn't universal among Christians.

According to the Bible and the teachings and commands of Jesus and early Christians.

So what? That's your evaluation, based on your theology. Their theology may tell them that such behaviour is justifiable.

If you think that being a true follower of Christ means that you can hate and even kill others in His name, read His words and His teachings. Anyone who says that being a true Christian gives them this authority is either unaware of what the Bible commands, or they are unwilling to obey Christ. Either way they are not behaving as true Christians.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You clearly stated that the mistakes made in science are mostly due to religion and creationists. This is absolutely false. Call it a "strawman" all you like, it doesn't change what you said.

No, I did not say that. Re-read what I actually wrote.

Call it whatever you want. Having theological differences does not automatically mean that some Christians are okay with killing people. Another convenient argument.

The convenient argument is yours: "Oh, they're not a real Christian. No True Christian would ever do that..." That's the convenient argument.

According to the Bible and the teachings and commands of Jesus and early Christians.

More precisely, according to your interpretation of the Bible, which is shaped by your theology.

If you think that being a true follower of Christ means that you can hate and even kill others in His name, read His words and His teachings. Anyone who says that being a true Christian gives them this authority is either unaware of what the Bible commands, or they are unwilling to obey Christ. Either way they are not behaving as true Christians.

So what? To quote the dude, "That's like your opinion, man." You say that what they do isn't Christian. They say the opposite. So unless you have a way of establishing the truth of your theological claims, I have no more reason to believe your claims than I do to believe theirs. Who is a "True Christian"? According to you, they aren't. According to them, you aren't.

 

[bhsmte]

In fact, I didn't ask you anything in my first post also. But your guys have asked too many questions. I have clarified them in my previous post. If you don't have any more questions, I can assume you are convinced with my responses

Pls come back to our father and believe in god

Sent from my BlackBerry 9790 using Tapatalk

You probably assume too much.

 

[bhsmte]

And yet the Bible makes things pretty clear as to God creating the earth and everything that exists. I just wonder how a Christian can reject that.

Most do.

More than likely because, the biblical creation account, does not align with well evidenced reality.

Some folks, can ignore this reality and believe the creation account, most cant get themselves to ignore reality.

 

[amariselle]

No, I did not say that. Re-read what I actually wrote.

Here is what you wrote:

Unlike religion, science doesn't need apologetics. But it does need those who appreciate the work of science to dispel myths, misconceptions, and pseudoscience, which incidentally often comes from religion (e.g., creationism).

The convenient argument is yours: "Oh, they're not a real Christian. No True Christian would ever do that..." That's the convenient argument.

Nope, it is not a convenient argument at all.

More precisely, according to your interpretation of the Bible, which is shaped by your theology.

So what? To quote the dude, "That's like your opinion, man." You say that what they do isn't Christian. They say the opposite. So unless you have a way of establishing the truth of your theological claims, I have no more reason to believe your claims than I do to believe theirs. Who is a "True Christian"? According to you, they aren't. According to them, you aren't.

The Bible, the words of Jesus and His disciples and early apostles.

 

[amariselle]

Most do.

More than likely because, the biblical creation account, does not align with well evidenced reality.

Some folks, can ignore this reality and believe the creation account, most cant get themselves to ignore reality.

Your opinion. History tells a completely different story.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Here is what you wrote:

Yes, which is not consistent with what you are claiming I wrote.

Nope, it is not a convenient argument at all.

Of course not. It's not convenient at all.

The Bible, the words of Jesus and His disciples and early apostles.

That's the very same source your opponent is relying on! For goodness sake, you are appealing to the same book to argue that the other guy isn't a Christian!

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Your opinion. History tells a completely different story.

History tells the story of creationism's failure.

 

[amariselle]

That's the very same source your opponent is relying on! For goodness sake, you are appealing to the same book to argue that the other guy isn't a Christian!

That's absurd. I am "appealing" to the words of Jesus. If you think that a person who claims Jesus says we can hate and kill others in His name is correct, find where Jesus says that.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

That's absurd. I am "appealing" to the words of Jesus. If you think that a person who claims Jesus says we can hate and kill others in His name is correct, find where Jesus says that.

So are they. Here's one group also appealing to the Bible.

 

[amariselle]

So are they. Here's one group also appealing to the Bible.

I didn't ask you to find the words of other people, I asked you to find words of Jesus and writings by His disciples and other early Christians in the Bible that say obeying Jesus means it is okay to hate or kill in His name.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

So are they. Here's one group also appealing to the Bible.

A Sacramento preacher recently said about the Orlando shooting:

"The tragedy is that more of them didn't die."

He also said that God tells us to hate his enemies.