Bulgarian Orthodox Church withdraws from Pan-Orthodox Council in Crete

[buzuxi02]

Antioch is not showing up neither. Actually they may show up. Brilliant political move actually. To pressure EP to in turn pressure the JP to give up on Qatar.
With that said I've never shy away from making controversial statements and I won't disappoint. The EP and the majority of his synod needs to resign. If not they should be deposed. No one should remain silent over this scandal . For the GOARCH to release a statement from the EP saying his synod "was surprised" at the backlash tells me the Ecumenical Patriarchate is out of touch with Orthodox Christianity and have been dabbling in heresy for decades in his secular secret compound in Chambesy.

 

[Taom Ben Robert]

The priest who chrismated me into the Orthodox Church gave me the sage advice to not get too scandalized by Church politics. The Church has gone through worse trials than this council may possibly cause. If any un-Orthodox ideas are embraced they are null and void, so no worries. With that in mind this quote concerns me:

“'The council is still on,' Chryssavgis told Crux in a June 6 interview, just ahead of his departure for Crete. 'If one or more churches don’t attend, all the decisions made will still hold and be binding for all Orthodox churches.'”

I'm not a canonical scholar, but this doesn't seem to be in the same collegial spirit of the Ecumenical Councils. If all our bishops don't participate and all don't come to universal concensus as a sign of the unity of the Spirit, then any decisions or proclamations will not carry the weight of a genuine ecumenical council. In fact, no "binding decisions" or declarations should be made without universal support.

Just the sentiment of one not very schooled on such things. Lol!

To be fair , Nicea is binding despite objections from Arian bishops

 

[E.C.]

The priest who chrismated me into the Orthodox Church gave me the sage advice to not get too scandalized by Church politics. The Church has gone through worse trials than this council may possibly cause. If any un-Orthodox ideas are embraced they are null and void, so no worries. With that in mind this quote concerns me:

“'The council is still on,' Chryssavgis told Crux in a June 6 interview, just ahead of his departure for Crete. 'If one or more churches don’t attend, all the decisions made will still hold and be binding for all Orthodox churches.'”

I'm not a canonical scholar, but this doesn't seem to be in the same collegial spirit of the Ecumenical Councils. If all our bishops don't participate and all don't come to universal concensus as a sign of the unity of the Spirit, then any decisions or proclamations will not carry the weight of a genuine ecumenical council. In fact, no "binding decisions" or declarations should be made without universal support.

Just the sentiment of one not very schooled on such things. Lol!

I think roughly 1,200 bishops were invited to Nicea but only, like, a third even showed up.

Antioch is not showing up neither. Actually they may show up. Brilliant political move actually. To pressure EP to in turn pressure the JP to give up on Qatar.
With that said I've never shy away from making controversial statements and I won't disappoint. The EP and the majority of his synod needs to resign. If not they should be deposed. No one should remain silent over this scandal . For the GOARCH to release a statement from the EP saying his synod "was surprised" at the backlash tells me the Ecumenical Patriarchate is out of touch with Orthodox Christianity and have been dabbling in heresy for decades in his secular secret compound in Chambesy.

Of course the EP is out of touch, he thinks anyone outside of Europe is barbarian. He also thinks that any Orthodox in the Americas are all Greeks if they're not Russian! That man is the epitome of the ignorance of the old world Churches towards those who are Orthodox but not of "traditional Orthodox ethnicities" (such a b••••••t notion to begin with since even the APOSTLES were converts!)

 

[Orthodoxjay1]

Rather, they insist on calling it "Bulgarian coffee" instead of "Greek coffee".

Sadly I could believe it lol:
"what Coffee is this?
" Bulgarian!"
"Bulgarian?, Anthema!"

Coffee like a sacrament in our Church,btw.

 

[buzuxi02]

Of course the EP is out of touch, he thinks anyone outside of Europe is barbarian. He also thinks that any Orthodox in the Americas are all Greeks if they're not Russian! That man is the epitome of the ignorance of the old world Churches towards those who are Orthodox but not of "traditional Orthodox ethnicities" (such a b••••••t notion to begin with since even the APOSTLES were converts!)

They are obviously out of touch with Orthodox dogma. This patriarch needs to be deposed along with most of his synod. It also goes to show the puppet that the GOARCH is. They put up a few priests with fancy accents to tell us how great this council is, atleast one priest telling us every heretical text will be binding. I want to hear from Archbishop Demetrios because he knows it's heretical, will he just remain silent to protect his boss?

This also has exposed the danger of these secret buildings in Chambesy where our clergy are being indoctrinated into heresy. And where is the voices of St. Vlad's and Holy Cross in Brookline? Both these schools are hot beds for pan-christian syncretism. Where are these professors to speak out? No, they sponsor and perpetuate this dumbing down on Orthodox ecclesiology by inviting the heterodox, giving them honorary degrees in order to promote their mickey mouse institution as some ivy league world class theological academy. Thank God for the theological school in Thessaloniki for deconstructing and exposing the fallacies of these texts, whose professors traveled to Georgia and met with the Georgan bishops to exposed the Chambesy fraud. So take note St Vlad's and Holy Cross, that's how it's done, you could learn something here.

 

[gzt]

Tell us how you really feel, buzuxi.

 

[Orthodoxjay1]

Wait Holy Cross school is bad? I been told Holy Cross is legit at Church ::confused face::.

 

[gzt]

Buzuxi has strong opinions and will defame whoever or whatever he likes. Whether there is any basis in fact is another question.

 

[buzuxi02]

Wait Holy Cross school is bad? I been told Holy Cross is legit at Church ::confused face::.

They are legit but don't expect great minds to emerge from there. Its under the EP, so don't expect them to ever cross the party line. The only article on the seminary's website about the council, is the anouncement that the president of the school will be doing live coverage of the proceedings. Here is how the article ends

...Topics expected to be discussed include the mission of the Orthodox Church, autocephaly, autonomy, the Sacrament of Marriage, fasting, and interfaith relations.

Hmm, autocephaly??? That topic was dropped. And of course the vague description for the text that is flat out heretical: interfaith relations.

HCHC President to Provide Live Commentary at the Holy and Great Council of the Orthodox Church | Hellenic College Holy Cross Greek Orthodox School of Theology

:Now here is the official GOARCH website posting the response of Patriarch Bartholomew and his synod to the controversy the aforementioned topic has created:
"The Sacred Endemousa Synod was informed with surprise and wonder of the positions and opinions expressed recently by some sister Orthodox Churches and, after evaluating these, ascertained that no institutional framework allows for the revision of the synodal process already under way:....
Announcement of the Ecumenical Patriarchate on the Holy and Great Synod — Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America

Thre was surprise and wonder???? Their ignorance alone is enough to get them deposed. Patriarch Bartholomew could have just asked his archbishop here in America what the reaction would be in his native Greece and among his flock here in America. He is surprised that Mt Athos wants revisions of the texts and that other monks are now threatening to no longer commemorate him on the mountain??? Are these bishops for real?

 

[GregConstantine]

In America? Yes, because many Greek Americans are far, far, far more concerned about being Greek than about being Orthodox. Or they equate the two as being the exact same thing. So you shouldn't have too high expectations from them.

 

[ZaidaBoBaida]

I thought autocephaly was still in the agenda?

 

[E.C.]

Wait Holy Cross school is bad? I been told Holy Cross is legit at Church ::confused face::.

The breakdown of the three major seminaries is as follows:

St Tikhon's will teach you how to swing a censor.
St Vlad's will teach you why you swing the censor.
Holy Cross will teach you where to get a good deal on a censor!



As for autocephaly, it is already here with the OCA. That being said I don't think administrative unity will happen with everyone joining the OCA, but I think it will only happen with overhauling all of the jurisdictions. As long as GOARCH teaches people how to be Greek and ROCOR teaches how to be Russian it will not happen. As long as HH Bartholomew is EP it will also never happen. I fear it would only happen when American and Canadian societies begin burning our churches and killing our priests. Even the I won't hold my breath.
As I like to tell people, the Church of Japan only came into its own from the nationalists declaring that all religious organizations in Japan were to be lead by someone Japanese.

 

[Orthodoxjay1]

The breakdown of the three major seminaries is as follows:

St Tikhon's will teach you how to swing a censor.
St Vlad's will teach you why you swing the censor.
Holy Cross will teach you where to get a good deal on a censor!



As for autocephaly, it is already here with the OCA. That being said I don't think administrative unity will happen with everyone joining the OCA, but I think it will only happen with overhauling all of the jurisdictions. As long as GOARCH teaches people how to be Greek and ROCOR teaches how to be Russian it will not happen. As long as HH Bartholomew is EP it will also never happen. I fear it would only happen when American and Canadian societies begin burning our churches and killing our priests. Even the I won't hold my breath.
As I like to tell people, the Church of Japan only came into its own from the nationalists declaring that all religious organizations in Japan were to be lead by someone Japanese.

Well we do seem to have a nationalist on one of the party's tickets (socialist on the other), so who knows maybe that guy will force a Orthodox Church here in America, after all it would be a Church "made in America" lol

 

[jckstraw72]

The breakdown of the three major seminaries is as follows:

St Tikhon's will teach you how to swing a censor.
St Vlad's will teach you why you swing the censor.
Holy Cross will teach you where to get a good deal on a censor!

while we all enjoyed and ourselves retold this venerable old joke, i don't know how true it is anymore. the academic level at STS is much higher than people give credit for. People like Dr. Christopher Veniamin and Dr. Harry Boosalis and the Fords are really top-notch. Dr. Christopher has even been tapped to be a theological advisor to the Synod of Cyprus for the Council.

 

[ZaidaBoBaida]

What would happen if they granted autocephaly to GOARCH?

 

[gzt]

What would happen if they granted autocephaly to GOARCH?

They wouldn't do that.

 

[~Anastasia~]

All I can say is that I am thankful beyond words that my experience doesn't match what is said here.

Our priest is absolutely wonderful, on so many levels. He's a wonderful teacher, extremely good from a pastoral perspective, both where individuals are concerned and with the personality conflicts that can arise in meetings, has good ideas for helping integrate the outsiders that visit, and more. He's also an awesome liturgist.

It's easy enough for me to say that he's good, but he's really my first priest. But others in the parish who have been through MANY priests all say the same thing - that he's the best they've ever had.

The only thing I regret is that the Bishop notices such things, and has the whole diocese to worry about. Which means continually added responsibilities for our priest, and I also suspect they may want to move him to a larger community.

What I wish they would do instead is send him junior priests to mentor, which would lighten the load for him, as well as benefit the new priests. But since we pay his salary, insurance, etc. I know for a fact that our community can't afford a second priest.

I can't comment on anyone else coming out of Holy Cross. As far as comparing it to St. Tikhon's or St. Vlad's, I also wouldn't know. I only know folks online from those, but they mostly all seem good too.

I DO have some things about the ethnic Greeks that make me sigh sometimes. Our parish is a mixture. We do have extremely devout persons there, who (to me) really seem to embody an Orthodox ethos. We have a lot of more moderate ones. And we have some that do seem to be more concerned with being Greek than being Orthodox. Our parish is largely direct immigrants from Greece though, so I have some degree of sympathy for them. Many don't seem to realize that various denominations actually have different beliefs, and so they do believe the purpose of their parish is for Greeks.

I think what frustrates me more at times is that sometimes cradles fail to appreciate what they have as a result. Of course, some of that opinion may be the result of viewing things through a residual lens of convert zeal. And to be honest, I could just as easily go to a Baptist/Methodist/Catholic/whatever church and find people who were basically born into their denomination and simply attended it without giving too much thought to distinctives. So again, I don't want to be too hard on them. But I am just saddened to see that some folks neglect, and really have no interest at all, in some of the tools that could benefit them spiritually. I guess that would be typical of almost any group of people. (Then again, one of my former "churches" was actually a school of ministry who opened their services to the public. While some of their doctrines were wrong, I must say that nowhere else have I ever seen such widespread zeal. If THOSE folks ever became Orthodox - wow. But anyway, because I have that experience, I may just be desiring to see everyone so dedicated again.)

 

[gzt]

Both your experience and the actual reality don't match what's said here. People here very readily calumniate clerics, hierarchs, and churchly institutions.

 

[buzuxi02]

I thought autocephaly was still in the agenda?

Was being the key word. It was supposed to be 1 of 10 topics, but Its now down to 6. Autocephaly was one of the topics on the chopping block.

And now Serbia will not show up unless its declared a pre-conciliar meeting.

 

[buzuxi02]

while we all enjoyed and ourselves retold this venerable old joke, i don't know how true it is anymore. the academic level at STS is much higher than people give credit for. People like Dr. Christopher Veniamin and Dr. Harry Boosalis and the Fords are really top-notch. Dr. Christopher has even been tapped to be a theological advisor to the Synod of Cyprus for the Council.

But would they ever criticise their bishops if they run afoul of the patristic and canonical traditions? Would any of them even question OCA autocephaly by critiquing there decades of being non-canonical and then seeking legitimacy by a soviet dominated church?
Or are they like Brookline who will never criticise the founder of the GOARCH Meletios of thrice sorry memory. Or today be like Dr. John Chrysavvgis who as a professor seems to have forgotten church history, and said everything passed at this council will be binding on everyone regardless. With no emperor to enforce anything, and most monastics against it is he saying his boss is the new Bekkos.
Thats what I want to know, a true Orthodox theologian would teach contradictory to all these WCC statements and interfaith dialogue agreements when they run afoul.