Can you be good without God?

[MennoSota]

An autoritative system can never be objectivly true.

It is authoritatively true.

When God says it, it's true. No discussion. No argument. Just, Yes God.

Anything else is false.

 

[Freodin]

It is authoritatively true.

When God says it, it's true. No discussion. No argument. Just, Yes God.

Anything else is false.

An autoritative system can never be objectively true, no matter of how much you state it is. That is a fact.

But of course you can still claim that one should submit to an autoritative system, truth or not. All you need to show for that is that you have, you know... AUTHORITY! (And if I had the inclination for doing so, you would see a relevant Eric Cartman meme here. )

 

[Rajni]

The whole topic might be easier to address if it was
established just what, exactly, "without God" is supposed
to look like (see post 252). Especially in the eyes of those
who believe there is a God to begin with. As a theist
myself, I just don't quite get that.

What, exactly, is "without God", to a theist?


-

 

[Davian]

Well...is there anything about it that you disagree with? Perhaps that is why many people choose to be theist? They rather believe is a god then accept the fact that our lives are meaningless in the end? But that's a topic for another thread.

Theism as a comfort blanket? Sure, if that works for you. What I seek is an accurate description of reality.

 

[Davian]

It is authoritatively true.

When God says it, it's true. No discussion. No argument. Just, Yes God.

Anything else is false.

Does God speak directly to you? Do you hear voices?

 

[Freodin]

The whole topic might be easier to address if it was
established just what, exactly, "without God" is supposed
to look like (see post 252). Especially in the eyes of those
who believe there is a God to begin with. As a theist
myself, I just don't quite get that.

What, exactly, is "without God", to a theist?


-

As with all these topics, one would have to define what this "God" is first. The "theists" that we usually debate here are Christians, and, I am sorry to say, I cannot take most of them serious. For each Jason_delisle, who is interested in presenting and discussing arguments, there seem to be dozens of MennoSotas whose only argument is "Obey!"

In fact, even the philosophy that the Jasons propagate comes back to "Obey!"... but he is a lot nicer and reasonable about it.

But that's that: this is the "without God" that this kind of theists talk about. God is a figure of authority, who gives moral commands. Following these moral command by the letter might be enough to be "good", sometimes not even that is enough.
For all its bluster, it is a philosophy that doesn't care about the importance of "good and evil" for human beings at all.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

But that's not a fact at all. That's the problem.

So what meaning would your life have after the universe fades into darkness? Just curious.

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[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Theism as a comfort blanket? Sure, if that works for you. What I seek is an accurate description of reality.

I know this is off topic but I personally don't see it as a comfort blanket. But I can admit that there are probably many who do. I am sure if I did a survey on it I could find out more information. Putting on a secular hat for a moment, I do know that religion can be found in every culture all across the world. Even the most isolated and remote villages that are completely cut off from any other civilization have some sort of religion. So whatever the reason is for the existence of religion, it has to do with something that everyone experiences at some point in their life. Perhaps it is to answer the questions of life (where did we come from) and death (where do we go after we die).

 

[ToddNotTodd]

So what meaning would your life have after the universe fades into darkness? Just curious.

If people give their own lives meaning, then logically the meaning of anyone's life dies with them. i don't know why anyone would be upset by this. Meaning is only relevant at the time it's being expressed anyway.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

If people give their own lives meaning, then logically the meaning of anyone's life dies with them. i don't know why anyone would be upset by this. Meaning is only relevant at the time it's being expressed anyway.

I agree. It is perfectly fine for someone to give their own life meaning in order to give themselves a purpose to continue living. As long as we both understand that in the grand scheme of things, it is meaningless in the end.

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[bhsmte]

I agree. It is perfectly fine for someone to give their own life meaning in order to give themselves a purpose to continue living. As long as we both understand that in the grand scheme of things, it is meaningless in the end.

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It certainly is not meaningless while we are alive and aware, which is all we can say with any confidence, exists.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I agree. It is perfectly fine for someone to give their own life meaning in order to give themselves a purpose to continue living. As long as we both understand that in the grand scheme of things, it is meaningless in the end.

I don't see an existent "grand scheme of things". It's quite liberating. You should try it.

 

[Davian]

I know this is off topic but I personally don't see it as a comfort blanket. But I can admit that there are probably many who do. I am sure if I did a survey on it I could find out more information. Putting on a secular hat for a moment, I do know that religion can be found in every culture all across the world. Even the most isolated and remote villages that are completely cut off from any other civilization have some sort of religion. So whatever the reason is for the existence of religion, it has to do with something that everyone experiences at some point in their life.

And most people in northern latitudes wear warmer clothes than the majority living near the equator. Are we are simply observing a commonality in physiology? If we have evolved as social animals, as storytellers, it would follow that we are story believers.

I consider general arguments for theism to be self defeating, as religious beliefs are mutually exclusive, and they cannot all be right. That means you are making an argument in favour of a lot of wrong.

Perhaps it is to answer the questions of life (where did we come from) and death (where do we go after we die).

Which begs the question, do these religious answers have any bearing on reality?

 

[Davian]

I agree. It is perfectly fine for someone to give their own life meaning in order to give themselves a purpose to continue living. As long as we both understand that in the grand scheme of things, it is meaningless in the end.

I am not sure where you are going with that. If a religion cannot prove itself to be anything other than a placebo, I really do not have a use for it.

 

[MennoSota]

Does God speak directly to you? Do you hear voices?

Nope

God has speaks through His Word. This is enough. I am grateful that the Creator has condescended to share his means of reconciliation to lawbreakers like myself.

 

[Davian]

Nope

God has speaks through His Word.

So what we are actually getting here is your interpretation of the Bible. I thought so.

This is enough.

For you, perhaps. Some of us do not set the evidential bar so low.

I am grateful that the Creator has condescended to share his means of reconciliation to lawbreakers like myself.

Does that mean you can do anything, and still go to Heaven, as long as you believe? Like slaughter your entire neighbourhood? It's like you have no morals at all.

 

[SteveB28]

All humanity is, by nature, depraved. Much has been done in the name of Yeshua that is shameful and biblically unjustified. No one can deny their sin.

Speak for yourself. I don't fit your description.

 

[SteveB28]

God's moral law is the standard of measurement, which God, the Judge, uses to declare right or wrong.
God decides and all His creation is subject to them, whether anyone likes it or not.

My judgment, or your judgment, regarding God's moral law, is irrelevant. God's judgment is just as the one who created us and the law.

God is not subject to a democracy or checks and balances of a federal system. God is our Creator and He is our dictator, whether we like it or not. Fight against the bit all you want, but you are still a subject under the decree of a Sovereign God and King.

How does one "fight" against a non-existent "bit"?

 

[MennoSota]

Speak for yourself. I don't fit your description.

It's not my description. It's God's description in His holy word.

"All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
"There is none that is righteous, no not one."

You can deny my comments all day, but God will bring you to account and your denials won't pass the test, which God has set up.
Pray for God's mercy and grace.

 

[MennoSota]

How does one "fight" against a non-existent "bit"?

Yeshua, Jesus, is very existent. Your matrix doesn't change reality.