Can you be good without God?

[ToddNotTodd]

God's moral law is the standard of measurement, which God, the Judge, uses to declare right or wrong.
God decides and all His creation is subject to them, whether anyone likes it or not.

My judgment, or your judgment, regarding God's moral law, is irrelevant. God's judgment is just as the one who created us and the law.

God is not subject to a democracy or checks and balances of a federal system. God is our Creator and He is our dictator, whether we like it or not. Fight against the bit all you want, but you are still a subject under the decree of a Sovereign God and King.

This really has... zero... to do with what I was talking about, but I'm glad you got to vent the typical Calvinist dictator spiel.

Man, what is it with you guys and your apparent glee over imagining other people punished? Is it because you're seen as one of the red-headed step children of Christianity? When I looked up "Calvinism is false" I got around 377,000 hits. I suppose that would be a reason to be bitter...

 

[MennoSota]

This really has... zero... to do with what I was talking about, but I'm glad you got to vent the typical Calvinist dictator spiel.

Man, what is it with you guys and your apparent glee over imagining other people punished? Is it because you're seen as one of the red-headed step children of Christianity? When I looked up "Calvinism is false" I got around 377,000 hits. I suppose that would be a reason to be bitter...

LOL

What I find humorous is your desperate need to be your own master, even though you live as a hobo under the tracks with nothing to your name.

Yet, you could be adopted by the Sovereign King and live as royalty and instead you claim God as an evil dictator.

That's just sadly funny as I observe you struggling like a toddler in his Father's arms.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

LOL

What I find humorous is your desperate need to be your own master, even though you live as a hobo under the tracks with nothing to your name.

Yet, you could be adopted by the Sovereign King and live as royalty and instead you claim God as an evil dictator.

That's just sadly funny as I observe you struggling like a toddler in his Father's arms.

The Sovereign King has no clothes.

 

[Achilles6129]

A command to slaughter thousands of people and take their virgin women as sex slaves isn't heinous?

What theology can possibly justify that?

Hi Dave,

There's certainly nothing in there about taking virgin women as sex slaves; that's something that you're reading into the text.

We're not allowed to discuss apologetics on this forum, so I'm going to have to end it there. And that's something that applies not only to you but to everyone else who wants to debate apologetics on this thread.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

What I find humorous is your desperate need to be your own master, even though you live as a hobo under the tracks with nothing to your name.

Hmm... If he wanted to be his own master, perhaps he should invent a "Sovereign King" who happens to agree with everything he says?

 

[MennoSota]

The thing is however, atheism has not caused any of those deaths. You can not get from "I don't believe a god exists" to "therefore I should murder people", it doesn't logically follow.

Stalin killed millions because of totalitarianism, they threatened (or were perceived to threaten) his grasp on power.

However, Christianity has directly caused millions of deaths. May it be through the inquisition, crusades, or holocaust.

Communism and Atheism are juxtaposed. Atheists killed, murdered, maimed millions in the last century and they continue to this day. Own it.

 

[MennoSota]

Hmm... If he wanted to be his own master, perhaps he should invent a "Sovereign King" who happens to agree with everything he says?

LOL

Why would the Sovereign King, the Creator of all things, care if you agree or disagree with him? He is still Sovereign over you irregardless of your opinion.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

LOL

Why would the Sovereign King, the Creator of all things, care if you agree or disagree with him? He is still Sovereign over you irregardless of your opinion.

Irregardless?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Communism and Atheism are juxtaposed. Atheists killed, murdered, maimed millions in the last century and they continue to this day. Own it.

In the name of atheism?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

LOL

What I find humorous is your desperate need to be your own master, even though you live as a hobo under the tracks with nothing to your name.

Yet, you could be adopted by the Sovereign King and live as royalty and instead you claim God as an evil dictator.

That's just sadly funny as I observe you struggling like a toddler in his Father's arms.

Are you intentionally reinforcing what I was just saying?

I'm just picturing a little old guy with an evil grin, wringing his hands and muttering "Oh yeah... you're going to get it. Boy oh boy..."

 

[MennoSota]

The Sovereign King has no clothes.

True, He is Spirit and needs no clothes.

Meanwhile, you walk along in desperation and depravity, acting like Yertle the Turtle without knowing you are king of nothing.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

True, He is Spirit and needs no clothes.

Meanwhile, you walk along in desperation and depravity, acting like Yertle the Turtle without knowing you are king of nothing.

I don't recall ever claiming to be king of anything.

 

[Achilles6129]

This thread has obviously been derailed and sidetracked, so let's get back to the main question: can you be good without God?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

This thread has obviously been derailed and sidetracked, so let's get back to the main question: can you be good without God?

Yes.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

This thread has obviously been derailed and sidetracked, so let's get back to the main question: can you be good without God?

No question; most of us - religious or not - do it most of the time.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

This thread has obviously been derailed and sidetracked, so let's get back to the main question: can you be good without God?

The answer is yes, unless you're defining "good" to include a belief in a god. In which case you can't. But of course I can define "good" to disallow a belief in a god. In which case you can't be good.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

God created humans to obey Him. Humans failed. Humanity is responsible for lawbreaking and being depraved.

If I made a bucket to hold water and it didn't hold water, the bucket would be responsible for leaking, but I'd be rather embarrassed and I'd expect a fair amount of critical comment for making a leaky bucket.

If God created us to obey Him and we don't obey Him, then He made a pretty poor fist of it. Now if He'd created us to behave just the way we do He might get a bit more kudos; but it would ill behove Him to blame us for not being different.

 

[Freodin]

This thread has obviously been derailed and sidetracked, so let's get back to the main question: can you be good without God?

There are some - well, one - here who think that " kill[ing], murder[ing], maim[ing] millions in the last century and ... continu[ing] to this day." has something to do with not being good without God.

Considering that there are quite a lot of people who do not believe in God who do not kill, murder or maim even a single person... who in fact condemn such a behaviour... and there there are quite a lot of people who do believe in God and still kill, murder, maim, rape, lie and steal... then yes, I would say it is safe to assert: yes, you can be good without God.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Hi Dave,

There's certainly nothing in there about taking virgin women as sex slaves; that's something that you're reading into the text.

We're not allowed to discuss apologetics on this forum, so I'm going to have to end it there. And that's something that applies not only to you but to everyone else who wants to debate apologetics on this thread.

Sure there is, that's the only honest way to read the text. If you wish not to address it, that's fine.

 

[bhsmte]

I don't recall ever claiming to be king of anything.

Dont worry, someone else will claim it for you.