The Early Church is the Catholic Church

[Root of Jesse]

Yes, he is my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Want me to introduce you to him?

No, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are persons. God is not a person, he's a being.

 

[Root of Jesse]

You don't think the Pope and Holy Roman Emperor threatening his life was a problem?

Can you prove that this ever happened?

 

[rakovsky]

You don't think the Pope and Holy Roman Emperor threatening his life was a problem?

Kind of ironic how J Calvin taught 5hat killing heretics was good and then killed Servetus after Luther's 95 theses said killing heretics was wrong. Different story....

 

[rakovsky]

Can you prove that this ever happened?

If they can, so what? We already know popes supported inquisitions that killed protestants and that Anglican leaders did the same wickedness to RCs.

 

[keltoi]

Well in the Bible Mary was still alive.

But even the RC church today teaches that some popes were heretics. I think it makes a stronger case.

How do you know Mary was still alive she isn't mentioned after Acts?

 

[keltoi]

Do you accept these words of Jesus to his apostles?

Luke 10:16
16 “Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

1 John 2
19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Heb 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Yes because theya re Christ's words to the APOSTLES, they are not Christ's words to some guy who didn't even know the apostles.

 

[rakovsky]

How do you know Mary was still alive she isn't mentioned after Acts?

The events narrated in the Bible where she would have been mentioned were probably up to the end of acts. After acts there are writings but they are more homily tic or prophetic, so they wouldn't narrate her death.
Second, if she was 13 in 0 Ad, then she might have lived to about the time when the books of the bible by Paul, james, and Peter were written. The apostles were probably about the same level of spiritual importance as Mary. But in different ways.

 

[rakovsky]

Yes because theya re Christ's words to the APOSTLES, they are not Christ's words to some guy who didn't even know the apostles.

Peter and maybe Pope Clement were both Popes and some guys who knew Jesus. But anyway I agree with your point.

 

[keltoi]

Kind of ironic how J Calvin taught 5hat killing heretics was good and then killed Servetus after Luther's 95 theses said killing heretics was wrong. Different story....

And this means what exactly to me? I'm a Protestant not a calvinist, nor a Lutheran, nor a Wesleyan, or any other such things. Rather I am a Christian, I follow Christ not churches named after cities or men.

 

[rakovsky]

And this means what exactly to me? I'm a Protestant not a calvinist, nor a Lutheran, nor a Wesleyan, or any other such things. Rather I am a Christian, I follow Christ not churches named after cities or men.

Yeah but the truth is tons of nondenominational Christians have ideologies that are part of some movement or other. So some charismatics who talk in tongues can say they are just following the Bible not men, but the truth is they are part of some trend in interpreting the Bible.

 

[keltoi]

The events narrated in the Bible where she would have been mentioned were probably up to the end of acts.

But she wasn't mentioned much was she.

After acts there are writings but they are more homily tic or prophetic, so they wouldn't narrate her death.

Poor MAry no one wrote about her death, does this suggest that her importance isn't as great as many would think?

Second, if she was 13 in 0 Ad, then she might have lived to about the time when the books of the bible by Paul, james, and Peter were written. The apostles were probably about the same level of spiritual importance as Mary. But in different ways.

Hypotheticals with no scriptural backing at all.

 

[keltoi]

Yeah but the truth is tons of nondenominational Christians have ideologies that are part of some movement or other. So some charismatics who talk in tongues can say they are just following the Bible not men, but the truth is they are part of some trend in interpreting the Bible.

Christ said those who live by the sword die by the sword. The Bible does not support the use of tongues compared to be able to teach. Tongues had a purpose, it has turned into bable now and many speakers of tongues chose to ignore Paul when he says if you can't be understood you are just making a noise and ar not any good to the edification of the church.

 

[rakovsky]

Hypotheticals with no scriptural backing at all.

The martyrdom of apostles besides Peter and Stephen is called the same thing by strong skeptics of the Bible.

 

[Thursday]

I just couldn't pass this up. You, as a self proclaimed Catholic, think there is no such thing as the "ascension of Mary"? The dogma that was declared by the Pope in 1854 via excathedra to be true? The dogma which claims that Mary never died but rather ascended into heaven just like Enoch and Elijah?


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It's called the assumption, and it is not the same thing as the Ascension.

 

[rakovsky]

Christ said those who live by the sword die by the sword. The Bible does not support the use of tongues compared to be able to teach. Tongues had a purpose, it has turned into bable now and many speakers of tongues chose to ignore Paul when he says if you can't be understood you are just making a noise and ar not any good to the edification of the church.

And yet Charismatics will tell you that they are just following the Bible when in truth they are just following a modern movement without realizing it. The Bible never says whether or not tongues stopped in 100 ad or that it's wrong to pray to saints.
The mainstream Christians of 100 to 300 ad passed on answers to both questions while undergoing persecution.

God allows people the choice to some extent and has not 100% hand delivered each answer like we may prefer.

 

[keltoi]

The Bible never says whether or not tongues stopped in 100 ad

But it does reveal the purpose and it wasn't to speak gibberish.

or that it's wrong to pray to saints.

It says the dead are asleep.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

It's called the assumption, and it is not the same thing as the Ascension.

Either way, there is absolutely no evidence that it ever happened. Don't you think it is rather strange that there is absolutely no mention of Mary's assumption in any of the NT books? I would think it would have been a big deal worthy of record. After all, the gospels were written decades after Mary's death/assumption so there is absolutely no reason why it wouldn't have been included in the NT.

 

[rakovsky]

But it does reveal the purpose and it wasn't to speak gibberish.
It says the dead are asleep.

Ok, this is a good example of what I mean. "Soul sleep" was a doctrine that gained a lot of traction starting in medieval times. I think Tyndal was an adherent. It's refuted by several ideas, like Moses' appearance to the apostles at the Transfiguratio, and the parable about warming the rich man's brothers. Adherents would say they are just reading the Bible, not following men, but the truth is they are part of a trend on this question that proposes that their teaching is just a plain reading of the Bible.

 

[rakovsky]

Either way, there is absolutely no evidence that it ever happened. Don't you think it is rather strange that there is absolutely no mention of Mary's assumption in any of the NT books? I would think it would have been a big deal worthy of record. After all, the gospels were written decades after Mary's death/assumption so there is absolutely no reason why it wouldn't have been included in the NT.

It's not really an issue I think. The Bible generally narrates things that happened before her death. It doesn't talk about St James ' stoning for example or Paul's death, which could have happened about the same time.

 

[keltoi]

Ok, this is a good example of what I mean. "Soul sleep" was a doctrine that gained a lot of traction starting in medieval times. I think Tyndal was an adherent.

It gained traction in the OT, Saul called up Samuel and got into trouble for it. Look it up if you don't believe me 1 Samuel 28.

It's refuted by several ideas, like Moses' appearance to the apostles at the Transfiguratio,

Deuteronomy 34
"34 Now Moses went up from the plains of Moab to Mount Nebo, to the top of Pisgah, which is opposite Jericho. And the Lord showed him all the land, Gilead as far as Dan,
2 and all Naphtali and the land of Ephraim and Manasseh, and all the land of Judah as far as the western sea,
3 and the Negev and the plain in the valley of Jericho, the city of palm trees, as far as Zoar.
4 Then the Lord said to him, “This is the land which I swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, saying, ‘I will give it to your descendants’; I have let you see it with your eyes, but you shall not go over there.”
5 So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.
6 And He buried him in the valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor; but no man knows his burial place to this day. 7 Although Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died, his eye was not dim, nor his vigor abated.
8 So the sons of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days; then the days of weeping and mourning for Moses came to an end."
Do you think God himself may have buried his body but taken his soul to Heaven because of his service to God?

and the parable about warming the rich man's brothers.

You do know what a parable is don't you? It is a story to teach a message.

Adherents would say they are just reading the Bible, not following men, but the truth is they are part of a trend on this question that proposes that their teaching is just a plain reading of the Bible.

What is truth to you is not truth to others, you shouldn't suggest what you believe is truth unless you can prove it.