The Early Church is the Catholic Church

[farout]

No other Church can legitimately make this claim.

These early writings confirm the truth that Jesus started one Church and it was the Catholic Church.

First up, this is taken from the letter of Pope Clement, the fourth pope, written to the Corinthians in about 90 AD. I've highlighted some key quotes that demonstrate the authority of the Church and the pope.

First Epistle to the Church at Corinth,
by His Holiness Pope St. Clement I


Chapter 40

These things therefore being manifest to us, and since we look into the depths of the divine knowledge, it behoves us to do all things in their proper order, which the Lord has commanded us to perform at stated times. He has enjoined offerings to be presented and service to be performed to Him, and that not thoughtlessly or irregularly, but at the appointed times and hours. Where and by whom He desires these things to be done, He Himself has fixed by His own supreme will, in order that all things being piously done according to His good pleasure, may be acceptable to Him. Those, therefore, who present their offerings at the appointed times, are accepted and blessed; for inasmuch as they follow the laws of the Lord, they sin not. For his own peculiar services are assigned to the high priest, and their own proper place is prescribed to the priests, and their own special ministrations devolve on the Levites. The layman is bound by the laws that pertain to laymen.

Chapter 41

Let every one of you, brethren, give thanks to God in his own order, living in all good conscience, with becoming gravity, and not going beyond the rule of the ministry prescribed to him. Not in every place, brethren, are the daily sacrifices offered, or the peace-offerings, or the sin-offerings and the trespass-offerings, but in Jerusalem only. And even there they are not offered in any place, but only at the altar before the temple, that which is offered being first carefully examined by the high priest and the ministers already mentioned. Those, therefore, who do anything beyond that which is agreeable to His will, are punished with death. You see, brethren, that the greater the knowledge that has been vouchsafed to us, the greater also is the danger to which we are exposed.

Chapter 42

The apostles have preached the Gospel to us from the Lord Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ has done so from God. Christ therefore was sent forth by God, and the apostles by Christ. Both these appointments, then, were made in an orderly way, according to the will of God. Having therefore received their orders, and being fully assured by the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and established in the word of God, with full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went forth proclaiming that the kingdom of God was at hand. And thus preaching through countries and cities, they appointed the first-fruits of their labours, having first proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons of those who should afterwards believe. Nor was this any new thing, since indeed many ages before it was written concerning bishops and deacons. For thus says the Scripture a certain place, "I will appoint their bishops in righteousness, and their deacons in faith."

Chapter 43

And what wonder is it if those in Christ who were entrusted with such a duty by God, appointed those ministers before mentioned, when the blessed Moses also, "a faithful servant in all his house," noted down in the sacred books all the injunctions which were given him, and when the other prophets also followed him, bearing witness with one consent to the ordinances which he had appointed? For, when rivalry arose concerning the priesthood, and the tribes were contending among themselves as to which of them should be adorned with that glorious title, he commanded the twelve princes of the tribes to bring him their rods, each one being inscribed with the name of the tribe. And he took them and bound them together, and sealed them with the rings of the princes of the tribes, and laid them up in the tabernacle of witness on the table of God. And having shut the doors of the tabernacle, he sealed the keys, as he had done the rods, and said to them, Men and brethren, the tribe whose rod shall blossom has God chosen to fulfil the office of the priesthood, and to minister to Him. And when the morning was come, he assembled all Israel, six hundred thousand men, and showed the seals to the princes of the tribes, and opened the tabernacle of witness, and brought forth the rods. And the rod of Aaron was found not only to have blossomed, but to bear fruit upon it. What think you, beloved? Did not Moses know beforehand that this would happen? Undoubtedly he knew; but he acted thus, that there might be no sedition in Israel, and that the name of the true and only God might be glorified; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Chapter 44

Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and there would be strife on account of the office of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained a perfect fore-knowledge of this, they appointed those presbyters already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry. We are of opinion, therefore, that those appointed by them, or afterwards by other eminent men, with the consent of the whole Church, and who have blame-lessly served the flock of Christ in a humble, peaceable, and disinterested spirit, and have for a long time possessed the good opinion of all, cannot be justly dismissed from the ministry. For our sin will not be small, if we eject from the episcopate those who have blamelessly and holily fulfilled its duties. Blessed are those presbyters who, having finished their course before now, have obtained a fruitful and perfect departure [from this world]; for they have no fear lest any one deprive them of the place now appointed them. But we see that you have removed some men of excellent behaviour from the ministry, which they fulfilled blamelessly and with honour.

This and dozens of other early Church writings can be found here:

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/

Jesus Christ did start the Catholic (universal church) But NOT THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH!

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Entirely too broad. Finding theologians who argue that Roman Catholicism has erroneous teachings is one thing. I'm talking about the sorts accusations, e.g. that calling Mary the queen of heaven goes back to Ishtar, or that the Eucharist is an "Egyptian sun wafer" (not made in this thread that I'm aware, but it is one promulgated by people like Jack Chick); that kind of nonsense remains nonsense. That's not exposing "false teachings", at best it's perpetuating ignorance, at worst it's bearing false witness and slander.

-CryptoLutheran

Just because you have not personally looked at the root of Mary worship does not mean there is no connection to Ishtar, Simiramus, Nimrod, Tammuz. It just means you have not earnestly looked at it, once you do, the connection is very obvious. Never the less, just because you are not aware of it does not mean it is any less real. Dismissing with Jack Chick comments is so RCC playbook it is not even funny. Frankly the more I read your posts you appear to hold more to Catholic dogma than any other....interesting in itself.

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

Both of them. I rest MY case.

Please quote where Christ hand picked Matthias? You do comprehend what castng lots is don't you? Perhaps not judging by your response.

 

[tickingclocker]

Amen, it is hard to tell tone online sometimes, just clarifying

I would say, Paul in Acts 20 made a point of saying he preached the full counsel of God, meaning he gave them time and he gave them all the counsel before he was innocent of their blood. I think just because someone does not want to hear the first time we should not give up. We should persevere and pray that the Father draws them to truth by the Holy Spirit and our Lord Jesus.

Consider this.

Acts 20
25And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. 26Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. 27For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

Good verse. I hope we can all say the same before God some day. Soon!

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

Please quote where Christ hand picked Matthias?

So what did Ephesians 2:20 mean to you? Though you're right, Peter's not the foundation, either. He is the rock upon which the Church is built.

Untrue because the only person referred to a ROCK is Christ Himself is which when Christ was speaking to Peter Christ was speaking of Himself. And the fact is Christ Himself called Peter a STONE.

The Church not built on Peter.

The apostleship ended when the last apostle died. The fact all the apostles were hand picked by Christ up to and including the apostle Paul on the Damascus road by Christ after His death with witnesses present proves that fact.

Now as for the misinterpreted verse ....

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church: and the gates of hell shall not overcome it.


This next verse proves that the church was built on the foundation of Christ not Peter (stone).

1 Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay, than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink (for they drank of the spiritual Rock that followed them: and the Rock was Christ.)

So the Church wasn't built on Peter (the stone) because Christ said upon this rock (Christ) the foundation of the church is laid.

John 1:42
42 And he brought him to Jesus. And Jesus beheld him, and said, Thou art Simon the son of Jonah: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation a stone.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Good verse. I hope we can all say the same before God some day. Soon!

Amen, that is the goal, well done good and faithful servant. Sometimes the full counsel of GOD is confronting false teachings, heresy, and exposing the works of darkness.

Eph 5:11

Children of Light

8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth 10Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Please quote where Christ hand picked Matthias? You do comprehend what castng lots is don't you? Perhaps not judging by your response.

They prayed to the Holy Spirit, and then cast lots. You're saying that chance has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit? I say, if you pray before you cast lots, that the prayer has an effect. Anyway, God, in the person of the Holy Spirit, chose Matthias.

 

[tickingclocker]

Amen, that is the goal, well done good and faithful servant. Sometimes the full counsel of GOD is confronting false teachings, heresy, and exposing the works of darkness.

Eph 5:11

Children of Light

8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth 10Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

But what is being done here "in secret"?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Untrue because the only person referred to a ROCK is Christ Himself is which when Christ was speaking to Peter Christ was speaking of Himself. And the fact is Christ Himself called Peter a STONE.

The only person named Rock in the Bible is Peter. Kephas is the Aramaic word, means Rock.

The Church not built on Peter.

The apostleship ended when the last apostle died. The fact all the apostles were hand picked by Christ up to and including the apostle Paul on the Damascus road by Christ after His death with witnesses present proves that fact.

Wrong, just wrong. The apostles were, themselves hand picked by Christ, but they ordained successors, every one of them.

Now as for the misinterpreted verse ....

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church: and the gates of hell shall not overcome it.

If I say 'I have a car and a truck that's blue', which one is blue? The very "I say unto the, that thou are Kephas and upon this kephas I will build my church...' means Peter is Rock.

This next verse proves that the church was built on the foundation of Christ not Peter (stone).

At the time of Christ the Greek Petros/petra were literally synonyms.

1 Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay, than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink (for they drank of the spiritual Rock that followed them: and the Rock was Christ.)

So the Church wasn't built on Peter (the stone) because Christ said upon this rock (Christ) the foundation of the church is laid.

See above. Christ is certainly the foundation, but Peter is the Rock upon which the Church was built.

John 1:42
42 And he brought him to Jesus. And Jesus beheld him, and said, Thou art Simon the son of Jonah: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation a stone.

Rock. Not stone.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The only person named Rock in the Bible is Peter. Kephas is the Aramaic word, means Rock.
Wrong, just wrong. The apostles were, themselves hand picked by Christ, but they ordained successors, every one of them.

What are your sources for each apostles successor?

Also, Jesus was called the Rock.

 

[keltoi]

So what did Ephesians 2:20 mean to you? Though you're right, Peter's not the foundation, either. He is the rock upon which the Church is built.

If you look at the original text the phrase "the corner stone" doesn't exist. What is actually said is "Christ himself being the corner". He is the beginning of the foundation not the first stone placed on the foundation after it is laid. The word stone has been added after corner by translators who misunderstand the processes of building a building.

 

[keltoi]

The only person named Rock in the Bible is Peter.

Just to begin I suggest you read through the Psalms. Was David talking about Peter or God when he said "you are my Rock"

 

[keltoi]

The Church is divine. Jesus promised the leaders of his Church that the Holy Spirit would lead them into all truth and that he would be with them until the end of the world.

Are you saying the Spirit does not lead all Christians? How come then the rest of us make mistakes with regards to scripture yet the pope is infallible?

 

[keltoi]

The Church never taught heresy. No pope acting in his official capacity ever taught heresy. The Church is protected from teaching error.

Individual popes can be in error, but not when in the role as the leader of the Church.

When is a pope not a leader of the church?

 

[keltoi]

The Church is divine. The Church wrote and compiled the books of the New Testament. Do you trust the work of the Church?

No the Apostles wrote the books of the NT, yes tehy were members of Christ's Church but they were not Roman Catholic.

 

[SepiaAndDust]

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/Roman Catholicism/coredee.htm
https://www.jesus-is-lord.com/coredeem.htm
http://www.reformedapologeticsministries.com/2014/03/mary-is-not-co-redemptrix-mediatrix-of.html?m=1

Wow! jesus-is-lord dot com is still up? Haven't seen that place since my Left Behind days!

Is it still an unintentionally hilarious viper pit of hatred and misdirected self-righteousness written by a toddler with a crayon?

 

[tickingclocker]

Wrong, just wrong. The apostles were, themselves hand picked by Christ, but they ordained successors, every one of them.

Really? And are these successors listed somewhere in the bible? Or is this a tradition belief? Because not every one of the Apostles knew when they were going to die, so how could they know when to ordain successors? And where/who are these Apostolic successors today? I'd like to know when they were appointed. Did they do this early on, or just before they died? Did they choose people who actually knew Jesus, in person, like they did?

There's so much I don't know about Christian history.

 

[SepiaAndDust]

Just because you have not personally looked at the root of Mary worship does not mean there is no connection to Ishtar, Simiramus, Nimrod, Tammuz. It just means you have not earnestly looked at it, once you do, the connection is very obvious. Never the less, just because you are not aware of it does not mean it is any less real. Dismissing with Jack Chick comments is so RCC playbook it is not even funny. Frankly the more I read your posts you appear to hold more to Catholic dogma than any other....interesting in itself.

I've looked into it, and there's nothing there. I mean nothing. The whole Babylon mystery religion idea is entirely unsupported.

Note that I'm not Catholic.


Don't believe me? Maybe you'll believe Ralph Woodrow, author of the original Babylon Mystery Religion, when he recanted everything he'd ever claimed:

Here is a list of the some of the unsubstantiated claims that are made about the religion of ancient Babylon:

• The Babylonians went to a confessional and confessed sins to priests who wore black clergy garments.

• Their king, Nimrod, was born on December 25. Round decorations on Christmas trees and round communion wafers honored him as the Sun-god.

• Sun-worshippers went to their temples weekly, on Sunday, to worship the Sun-god.

• Nimrod’s wife was Semiramis, who claimed to be the Virgin Queen of Heaven, and was the mother of Tammuz.

• Tammuz was killed by a wild boar when he was age 40; so 40 days of Lent were set aside to honor his death.

• The Babylonians wept for him on “Good Friday.” They worshipped a cross-the initial letter of his name.

It is amazing how unsubstantiated teachings like these circulate—and are believed. One can go to any library, check any history book about ancient Babylon, none of these things will be found. They are not historically accurate, but are based on an arbitrary piecing together of bits and pieces of mythology.

- Source: ralphwoodrow.org

Or maybe you're more of a Hislop fan. Even the JWs--once his biggest supporters--don't quote his garbage anymore. In fact, about the only people who do still quote Hislop are white supremacist Christian Identity types.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

But what is being done here "in secret"?

You mean secret pedophile rings within the RCC...like that?

 

[2Timothy2:15]

I've looked into it, and there's nothing there. I mean nothing. The whole Babylon mystery religion idea is entirely unsupported.

Note that I'm not Catholic.


Don't believe me? Maybe you'll believe Ralph Woodrow, author of the original Babylon Mystery Religion, when he recanted everything he'd ever claimed:




Or maybe you're more of a Hislop fan. Even the JWs--once his biggest supporters--don't quote his garbage anymore. In fact, about the only people who do still quote Hislop are white supremacist Christian Identity types.

I did not say that the RCC is mystery Babylon. The connections are there to paganism though. But nothing I say or show you will convince you. Simply, it is something the Holy Spirit has to open each persons eyes to.