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The Early Church is the Catholic Church

BornAgainChristian1

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That is not true. All the early Church acknowledged that the Bishop of Rome was the successor of Peter.

The various Orthodox Churches are not in full communion with the successor of Peter.

This wasn't always the case:

Macedonius, Patriarch of Constantinople (466-516)

Macedonius declared, when desired by the Emperor Anastasius to condemn the Council of Chalcedon, that 'such a step without an Ecumenical Synod presided over by the Pope of Rome is impossible.' (Macedonius, Patr. Graec. 108: 360a (Theophan. Chronogr. pp. 234-346 seq.)

John VI, Patriarch of Constantinople (715)

The Pope of Rome, the head of the Christian priesthood, whom in Peter, the Lord commanded to confirm his brethren. (John VI, Epist. ad Constantin. Pap. ad. Combefis, Auctuar. Bibl. P.P. Graec.tom. ii. p. 211, seq.)

Sergius, Metropolitain of Cyprus (649)

Writing to Pope Theodore:
O Holy Head, Christ our God hath destined thy Apostolic See to be an immovable foundation and a pillar of the Faith. For thou art, as the Divine Word truly saith, Peter, and on thee as a foundation-stone have the pillars of the Church been fixed. (Sergius Ep. ad Theod. lecta in Sess. ii. Concil. Lat. anno 649)

St. Sophronius, Patriarch of Jerusalem (c. 638)

Teaching us all orthodoxy and destroying all heresy and driving it away from the God-protected halls of our holy Catholic Church. And together with these inspired syllables and characters, I accept all his (the pope's) letters and teachings as proceeding from the mouth of Peter the Coryphaeus, and I kiss them and salute them and embrace them with all my soul ... I recognize the latter as definitions of Peter and the former as those of Mark, and besides, all the heaven-taught teachings of all the chosen mystagogues of our Catholic Church. (Sophronius, Mansi, xi. 461)

Transverse quickly all the world from one end to the other until you come to the Apostolic See (Rome), where are the foundations of the orthodox doctrine. Make clearly known to the most holy personages of that throne the questions agitated among us. Cease not to pray and to beg them until their apostolic and Divine wisdom shall have pronounced the victorious judgement and destroyed from the foundation ...the new heresy. (Sophronius, [quoted by Bishop Stephen of Dora to Pope Martin I at the Lateran Council], Mansi, 893)

St. Theodore the Studite of Constantinople (759-826)

Writing to Pope Leo III:
Since to great Peter Christ our Lord gave the office of Chief Shepherd after entrusting him with the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, to Peter or his successor must of necessity every novelty in the Catholic Church be referred. [Therefore], save us, oh most divine Head of Heads, Chief Shepherd of the Church of Heaven. (Theodore, Bk. I. Ep. 23)

Writing to Pope Paschal:
Hear, O Apostolic Head, divinely-appointed Shepherd of Christ's sheep, keybearer of the Kingdom of Heaven, Rock of the Faith upon whom the Catholic Church is built. For Peter art thou, who adornest and governest the Chair of Peter. Hither, then, from the West, imitator of Christ, arise and repel not for ever (Ps. xliii. 23). To thee spake Christ our Lord: 'And thou being one day converted, shalt strengthen thy brethren.' Behold the hour and the place. Help us, thou that art set by God for this. Stretch forth thy hand so far as thou canst. Thou hast strength with God, through being the first of all. (Letter of St. Theodore and four other Abbots to Pope Paschal, Bk. ii Ep. 12, Patr. Graec. 99, 1152-3)

Theodoret, Bishop of Cyrus in Syria (450)
A native of Antioch, Theodoret ruled under the Antiochean Patriarch.
I therefore beseech your holiness to persuade the most holy and blessed bishop (Pope Leo) to use his Apostolic power, and to order me to hasten to your Council. For that most holy throne (Rome) has the sovereignty over the churches throughout the universe on many grounds. (Theodoret, Tom. iv. Epist. cxvi. Renato, p. 1197).

If Paul, the herald of the truth, the trumpet of the Holy Spirit, hastened to the great Peter, to convey from him the solution to those in Antioch, who were at issue about living under the law, how much more do we, poor and humble, run to the Apostolic Throne (Rome) to receive from you (Pope Leo) healing for wounds of the the Churches. For it pertains to you to have primacy in all things; for your throne is adorned with many prerogatives. (Theodoret Ibid, Epistle Leoni)
The 12 Apostles were hand picked by Christ Himself including Judas's replacement Paul on the road to Damascus. So where does that leave your pope and your claims about your church?
 
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Root of Jesse

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The 12 Apostles were hand picked by Christ Himself including Judas's replacement Paul on the road to Damascus. So where does that leave your pope and your claims about your church?
Judas's replacement was not Paul, it was Matthias.
 
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BornAgainChristian1

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Judas's replacement was not Paul, it was Matthias.
Yes that is your opinion. So tell us which was hand picked by Christ Himself Matthias or Paul? I rest my case.
 
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tickingclocker

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Does his body teach two opposite doctrines as truth?

For example, some protestants teach that baptism is unnecessary to salvation, while others teach that it is absolutely required.

Both can't be true. Does the body of Christ teach false doctrines?
Maybe neither are, and both are. It's a highly personal decision to be baptized, isn't it, not to be taken lightly?
 
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tickingclocker

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That's not exactly how I would state it, but yes.

Protestants are separated brethren but they are not in full communion with the body of Christ.

Protestant churches teach many contradictory doctrines and therefore, by definition, must be teaching some false doctrines.

The Church founded by Jesus is led in ALL truth.
No church has all of God's truth on earth, so how can you assume such a claim? That is reserved for heaven alone, when our eyes will finally be completely opened to God. Not on earth. Does your church know what New Jerusalem is supposed to be for, and when it is coming? No. Neither does any other church. So you don't actually have 'all' of God's truth. Do you?
 
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pat34lee

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Does his body teach two opposite doctrines as truth?
For example, some protestants teach that baptism is unnecessary to salvation, while others teach that it is absolutely required.
Both can't be true. Does the body of Christ teach false doctrines?

Church systems are organizations. Religious
and political systems. They are all corrupt.
Not all of the people in them, though.
 
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pat34lee

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According to Q E V, a synonym for rock is pebble———So that Christ could have meant——uhhh, You are Peter and upon this pebble, I will build my church. Or as another stated,,,Peter is not the pebble, Christ is the pebble.

Peter IS the pebble. Yeshua is the solid rock,
because he is the Torah, which is forever.
 
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dqhall

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Where does the Spirit or breath of God lead?
Back to the Father and his Torah. If it isn't
leading you there, ....
Jesus is greater than the Torah. When Peter was staying in Joppa/Yafo at Simon the Tanner's house he had a vision of a sheet being lowered from heaven with all sorts of animals on it that were clean and unclean. God instructed him that all these foods were made clean for him. With this knowledge he was able to go and teach a Roman army centurion and his household about Jesus. A Jew is not supposed to eat in a Gentile's house for fear of contamination as the Gentiles do not observe Torah laws of what was Kosher or what is clean. Peter risked being made an outcast by the Jews to take the Gospel to the Gentiles.

Jesus said that his food was to do the will of his father (John 4:34). At the last supper he broke bread with his disciples, but not all at the table were in communion with God. If one takes communion and does not do the will of Jesus' father, the communion is null and void.
 
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prodromos

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That is not true. All the early Church acknowledged that the Bishop of Rome was the successor of Peter.
I sincerely doubt that you have read all the work of the Church Fathers given that the majority have not been translated into English (less than half of St John Chrysostom for example). Also there are many who attribute Rome's honor to both saints Peter and Paul.
 
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prodromos

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So you are right and all the Eastern Patriarchs and Biships I quoted are wrong. I see.
On the one hand, Catholics like to point out how often Eastern patriarchs fell into heresy, but on the other hand they want to claim they were without error when describing the bishop of Rome in glowing terms.
 
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prodromos

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In your (minority) opinion. I have lots of Orthodox friends who wish to be in full communion with the Catholic Church, and there are no obstacles, to them.
Actually, I believe your Orthodox friends to be in the minority position.
 
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prodromos

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No early Christians considered the Bishop of Antioch to be Peter's successor. That title was reserved for the Bishop of Rome.
Not true, but do tell us, who is the Bishop of Antioch successor to in your opinion?
 
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ViaCrucis

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No early Christians considered the Bishop of Antioch to be Peter's successor. That title was reserved for the Bishop of Rome.

So the bishop of Antioch doesn't trace his succession back to St. Peter? I imagine two thousand years of Antiochene bishops are going to be quite surprised to hear that.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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So does the catholics who you claim are the true church. The catholics worship Mary aka Semiramis and her little baby Tammuz.

That's objective nonsense. Semiramis was a legendary queen of Assyria, the wife of King Ninus. Tammuz was a fertility god worshiped first by the Sumerians but was also important in other parts of Mesopotamia.

The Blessed Virgin Mary has nothing to do with a legendary Assyrian queen or Mesopotamian fertility gods.

Please don't believe everything you read in the internet.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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pat34lee

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A Jew is not supposed to eat in a Gentile's house for fear of contamination as the Gentiles do not observe Torah laws of what was Kosher or what is clean. Peter risked being made an outcast by the Jews to take the Gospel to the Gentiles.

Jesus said that his food was to do the will of his father (John 4:34). At the last supper he broke bread with his disciples, but not all at the table were in communion with God. If one takes communion and does not do the will of Jesus' father, the communion is null and void.

You are getting closer than most still sitting in
the church system. Many still believe that those
verses were about eating unclean food.

It was exactly about dealing with gentiles. But,
where in the Torah does it forbid eating with
gentiles or unbelievers? Trick question, as it
doesn't say any such thing. That was a Rabbinic
enactment, designed to keep Jews from getting
too friendly with gentiles. Who knows what could
happen? They become friends, and become idol
worshipers or marry a pagan and become outcast.
Far fetched, but it was how they saw the world.

The problem was that in order to keep themselves
pure, the leaders of Israel ignored their command
to be a light to the nations. Yeshua became that
light anyway, and brought salvation, first to the
Jews, then to the gentiles. The gentiles have not
replaced Israel, but become part of them. And not
just spiritually, as some think. Adoption makes you
part of the blood of Israel, which is the only way to
inherit the promises which only belong to them.
 
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2Timothy2:15

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That's not exactly how I would state it, but yes.

Protestants are separated brethren but they are not in full communion with the body of Christ.

Protestant churches teach many contradictory doctrines and therefore, by definition, must be teaching some false doctrines.

The Church founded by Jesus is led in ALL truth.

False doctrines, let's take a look.

Heresy Date

OF ALL THE HUMAN TRADITIONS taught and practiced by the Roman Catholic Church, which are contrary to the Bible, the most ancient are the prayers for the dead and the sign of the Cross. Both began 300 years after Christ. 310
Wax Candles introduced in church 320
Veneration of angels and dead saints 375
The Mass, as a daily celebration, adopted 394
The worship of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and the use of the term, "Mother of God", as applied to her, originated in the Council of Ephesus 431
Priests began to dress differently from the laity 500
Extreme Unction 526
The doctrine of Purgatory was first established by Gregory the Great 593
The Latin language, as the language of prayer and worship in churches, was also imposed by Pope Gregory I. 600 years after Christ

The Word of God forbids praying and teaching in an unknown tongue. (1st Corinthians 14:9). 600
The Bible teaches that we pray to God alone. In the primitive church never were prayers directed to Mary, or to dead saints. This practice began in the Roman Church.

(Matthew 11:28; Luke 1:46; Acts 10:25-26; 14:14-18) 600
The Papacy is of pagan origin. The title of pope or universal bishop, was first given to the bishop of Rome by the wicked emperor Phocas.

This he did to spite Bishop Ciriacus of Constantinople, who had justly excommunicated him for his having caused the assassination of his predecessor emperor Mauritius. Gregory 1, then bishop of Rome, refused the title, but his successor, Boniface III, first assumed title "pope."

Jesus did not appoint Peter to the headship of the apostles and forbade any such notion. (Luke 22:24-26; Ephesians 1:22-23; Colossians 1:18; 1st Corinthians 3:11).

Note: Nor is there any mention in Scripture, nor in history, that Peter ever was in Rome, much less that he was pope there for 25 years; Clement, 3rd bishop of Rome, remarks that "there is no real 1st century evidence that Peter ever was in Rome." 610
The kissing of the Pope's feet

It had been a pagan custom to kiss the feet of emperors. The Word of God forbids such practices. (Read Acts 10:25-26; Revelation 19:10; 22:9). 709
The Temporal power of the Popes

When Pepin, the usurper of the throne of France, descended into Italy, called by Pope Stephen II, to war against the Italian Lombards, he defeated them and gave the city of Rome and surrounding territory to the pope. Jesus expressly forbade such a thing, and He himself refused worldly kingship. (Read Matthew 4:8-9; 20:25-26; John 18:38). 750
Worship of the cross, images and relics was authorized

This was by order of Dowager Empress Irene of Constantinople, who first caused to pluck the eyes of her own son, Constantine VI, and then called a church council at the request of Hadrian I, pope of Rome at that time.

Such practice is called simply IDOLATRY in the Bible, and is severely condemned. (Read Exodus 20:4; 3:17; Deuteronomy 27:15; Psalm 115). 788
Holy Water, mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by the priest, was authorized 850
The veneration of St. Joseph began 890
The baptism of bells was instituted by Pope John XIV 965
Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope John XV

Every believer and follower of Christ is called saint in the Bible. (Read Romans 1:7; 1st Colossians 1:2). 995
Fasting on Fridays and during Lent were imposed

Imposed by popes said to be interested in the commerce of fish. (Bull, or permit to eat meat), some authorities say, began in the year 700. This is against the plain teaching of the Bible. (Read Matthew 15:10; 1st Corinthians 10:25; 1st Timothy 4:1-3). 998
The Mass was developed gradually as a sacrifice; attendance made obligatory in the 11th century.

The Bible teaches that the sacrifice of Christ was offered once and for all, and is not to be repeated, but only commemorated in the Lord's Supper. (Read Hebrews 7:27; 9:26-28; 10:10-14).
The celibacy of the priesthood was decreed by Pope Hildebrand, Boniface VII

Jesus imposed no such rule, nor did any of the apostles. On the contrary, St. Peter was a married man, and St. Paul says that bishops were to have wife and children. (Read 1st Timothy 3:2,5, and 12; Matthew 8:14-15). 1079
The Rosary, or prayer beads was introduced by Peter the Hermit, in the year 1090. Copied from Hindus and Mohammedans

The counting of prayers is a pagan practice and is expressly condemned by Christ. (Matthew 6:5-13). 1090
The Inquisition of heretics was instituted by the Council of Verona in the year 1184. Jesus never taught the use of force to spread His religion 1184
The sale of Indulgences, commonly regarded as a purchase of forgiveness and a permit to indulge in sin.

Christianity, as taught in the Bible, condemns such a traffic and it was the protest against this traffic that brought on the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. 1190
The dogma of Transubstantiation was decreed by Pope Innocent III, in the year

By this doctrine the priest pretends to perform a daily miracle by changing a wafer into the body of Christ, and then he pretends to eat Him alive in the presence of his people during Mass. The Bible condemns such absurdities; for the Lord's Supper is simply a memorial of the sacrifice of Christ. The spiritual presence of Christ is implied in the Lord's Supper. (Read Luke 22:19-20; John 6:35; 1st Corinthians 11:26). 1215
Confession of sin to the priest at least once a year was instituted by Pope Innocent III., in the Lateran Council

The Bible commands us to confess our sins direct to God. (Read Psalm 51:1-10; Luke 7:48; 15:21; 1st John 1:8-9). 1215
The adoration of the wafer (Host), was decreed by Pope Honorius

So the Roman Church worships a God made by human hands. This is plain idolatry and absolutely contrary to the spirit of the Gospel. (Read John 4:24). 1220
The Bible forbidden to laymen and placed in the Index of forbidden books by the Council of Valencia

Jesus commanded that the Scriptures should be read by all. (John 5:39; 1st Timothy 3:15-17). 1229
The Scapular was invented by Simon Stock, and English monk

It is a piece of brown cloth, with the picture of the Virgin and supposed to contain supernatural virtue to protect from all dangers those who wear it on naked skin. This is fetishism. 1287
The Roman Church forbade the cup to the laity, by instituting the communion of one kind in the Council of Constance

The Bible commands us to celebrate the Lord's Supper with unleavened bread and the fruit of the vine. (Read Matthew 26:27; 1st Corinthians 11:26-29). 1414
The doctrine of Purgatory was proclaimed as a dogma of faith by Council of Florence

There is not one word in the Bible that would teach the purgatory of priests. The blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sins. (Read 1st John 1:7-9; 2:1-2; John 5:24; Romans 8:1). 1439
The doctrine of 7 Sacraments affirmed

The Bible says that Christ instituted only two ordinances, Baptism and the Lord's Supper. (Read Matthew 28:19-20; 26:26-28). 1439
The Ave Maria, part of the last

It was completed 50 years afterward and finally approved by Pope Sixtus V, at the end of the 16th century. 1508
The Council of Trent, held in the year 1545, declared that Tradition is of equal authority with the Bible

By tradition is meant human teachings. The Pharisees believed the same way, and Jesus bitterly condemned them, for by teaching human tradition, they nullified the commandments of God. (Read Mark 7:7-13; Colossians 2:8; Revelation 22:18). 1545
The apocryphal books were added to the Bible also by the Council of Trent

These books were not recognized as canonical by the Jewish Church. (See Revelation 22:8-9). 1546
The Creed of Pope Pius IV was imposed as the official creed 1560 years after Christ and the apostles

True Christians retain the Holy Scriptures as their creed. Hence their creed is 1500 years older than the creed of Roman Catholics. (Read Galatians 1:8). 1560
The Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary was proclaimed by Pope Pius IX

The Bible states that all men, with the sole exception of Christ, are sinners. Mary herself had need of a Savior. (Read Romans 3:23; 5:12; Psalm 51:5; Luke 1:30,46,47). 1834
In the year 1870 after Christ, Pope Pius IX proclaimed the dogma of Papal Infallibility

This is a blasphemy and the sign of the apostasy and of the antichrist predicted by St. Paul. (Read 2nd Thessalonians 2:2-12; Revelation 17:1-9; 13:5-8,18).

Many Bible students see the number of the beast (Rev. 13:18), 666 in the Roman letters of the Pope's title: "VICARIVS FILII DEI." -- V-5, I-1; C-100, I-1; V-S, I-1; L-50, I-1; I-1; D-500, I-l — Total, 666. 1870
Pope Plus X, in the year 1907, condemned together with "Modernism", all the discoveries of modern science which are not approved by the Church

Pius IX had done the same thing in the Syllabus of 1864. 1907
In the year 1930 Pius XI, condemned the Public Schools 1930
In the year 1931 the same pope Pius XI, reaffirmed the doctrine that Mary is "the Mother of God"

This doctrine was first invented by the Council of Ephesus in the year 431. This is a heresy contrary by Mary's own words. (Read Luke 1:46-49; John 2: l-5). 1931
In the year 1950 the last dogma was proclaimed by Pope Pius XII, the Assumption of the Virgin Mary 1950
 
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2Timothy2:15

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That's objective nonsense. Semiramis was a legendary queen of Assyria, the wife of King Ninus. Tammuz was a fertility god worshiped first by the Sumerians but was also important in other parts of Mesopotamia.

The Blessed Virgin Mary has nothing to do with a legendary Assyrian queen or Mesopotamian fertility gods.

Please don't believe everything you read in the internet.

-CryptoLutheran


No where in the bible does it tell us to worship Mary. You would do well to see the connections between Nimrod, Simiramus and Tammuz. Just so happens that Dec 25th was also celebrated by pagans as the birthday of Tammuz. You will also find 40 days of weeping in Ezekiel (40 days of lent). Actually there is an abundance of evidence to paganism and Catholicism.
 
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SkyWriting

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No other Church can legitimately make this claim.
These early writings confirm the truth that Jesus started one Church and it was the Catholic Church.

It's very important in Branding to have a unique quality.
Yours is being the "classic" model. The prototype, the
first one ever put together by anybody.
 
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ViaCrucis

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No where in the bible does it tell us to worship Mary. You would do well to see the connections between Nimrod, Simiramus and Tammuz. Just so happens that Dec 25th was also celebrated by pagans as the birthday of Tammuz. You will also find 40 days of weeping in Ezekiel (40 days of lent). Actually there is an abundance of evidence to paganism and Catholicism.

It's unfortunate that what you're saying is the invention of Alexander Hislop, and not real.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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