The Early Church is the Catholic Church

[Thursday]

Do we always stick perfectly to the truth of what the Holy Spirit always teaches us? If we don't, God promises there will be consequences. That is why we have the Nicene Creed, to keep us on track. It essentially 'jelled' Christianity into one whole, yet many parts. Ever notice non-Christian cults don't like that? They all try to knock it down all the time, or, try to divide us from it. Even if its just one person they can influence away from the eternal truth that shines forth from it, they will try.

I didn't ask if we stick to the truth.

My question is, does the Church started by Jesus, the body of Christ, teach any false doctrines?

 

[Thursday]

St. Peter has a successor in Antioch, not just Rome. Can a Church without the successor of Peter be the Church Jesus started?

-CryptoLutheran

No early Christians considered the Bishop of Antioch to be Peter's successor. That title was reserved for the Bishop of Rome.

 

[BryanMaloney]

There is no doubt that Roman bishops and popes were corrupt at times, but never did the Holy Spirit allow error to creep into the Church Christ created.

And the Holy Spirit never did allow error to creep into the Church that Christ created. Rome, on the other hand, FULL OF ERRORS! Fortunately, the Church that Christ created survives to the present day, even after Rome fell into schism. Many other Patriarchs (including the other Pope) remained faithful to the Church that Christ created.

 

[BryanMaloney]

Peter and his successors lead the Church. The Church is the body of Christ.

Which Church do you think Jesus started? Who leads it on earth while we await the return of Jesus?

That's easy, the Orthodox Church. It is not "Peter and his successors" who lead the Church. It is THE APOSTLES and THEIR successors who lead the Church.

 

[Thursday]

And the Holy Spirit never did allow error to creep into the Church that Christ created. Rome, on the other hand, FULL OF ERRORS! Fortunately, the Church that Christ created survives to the present day, even after Rome fell into schism. Many other Patriarchs (including the other Pope) remained faithful to the Church that Christ created.

The Eastern Patriarchs left the Catholic Church and are no longer in communion with the successor off Peter.

Do you believe that the Church of Christ does not contain the successor of Peter?

 

[Thursday]

That's easy, the Orthodox Church. It is not "Peter and his successors" who lead the Church. It is THE APOSTLES and THEIR successors who lead the Church.

I'll repeat my question above.

Do you believe that a Church that is not in full communion with the successor of Peter can be the Church Jesus started?

 

[mikpat]

According to Q E V, a synonym for rock is pebble———So that Christ could have meant——uhhh, You are Peter and upon this pebble, I will build my church. Or as another stated,,,Peter is not the pebble, Christ is the pebble.

 

[Thursday]

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[Root of Jesse]

According to Q E V, a synonym for rock is pebble———So that Christ could have meant——uhhh, You are Peter and upon this pebble, I will build my church. Or as another stated,,,Peter is not the pebble, Christ is the pebble.

Find Kephas in Aramaic. It means rock. Christ is the cornerstone of His Church, Peter is the foundation on earth.

 

[mikpat]

B. Maloney

Your "Apostles and successors" who lead the Church today have created over 30,000 sects- with an assortment of beliefs, interpretations all claiming to be inspired.

 

[Root of Jesse]

B. Maloney

Your "Apostles and successors" who lead the Church today have created over 30,000 sects- with an assortment of beliefs, interpretations all claiming to be inspired.

I don't agree with Bryan Maloney on the schism, but I don't believe the orthodox have created 30,000 sects. They have stayed faithful, in their way. It's the Reformation that created 30,000 sects.

 

[BryanMaloney]

I'll repeat my question above.

Do you believe that a Church that is not in full communion with the successor of Peter can be the Church Jesus started?

The SUCCESSORS to Peter and all the Apostles are still in full communion with each other. That fellow in Rome is not a successor to Peter, since his seat lost its succession when it fell away into schism. Antioch is as much a seat of Peter as Rome is, as well.

 

[BryanMaloney]

Find Kephas in Aramaic. It means rock. Christ is the cornerstone of His Church, Peter is the foundation on earth.

No, Peter is personally a "rock", but that does not mean that those of his alleged "successors" in Rome are Peter. Rome fell into schism, but the Church lives on, despite Rome's schism away from the leadership of Peter and the Apostles.

 

[BryanMaloney]

The Eastern Patriarchs left the Catholic Church and are no longer in communion with the successor off Peter.

Do you believe that the Church of Christ does not contain the successor of Peter?

No, the Roman patriarch left the Catholic Church and is no longer in communion with Peter's successors. The fact that the arch-schismatic happens to physically be in Rome doesn't mean he can't be an arch-schismatic with no legitimate claim to the Petrine (Apostolic) Succession. Just having your butt in the middle of Italy doesn't make you the legitimate successor to St. Peter.

 

[BryanMaloney]

I didn't ask if we stick to the truth.

My question is, does the Church started by Jesus, the body of Christ, teach any false doctrines?

No, the Orthodox Church teaches no false doctrines. Rome, on the other hand, isn't the Church started by Jesus.

 

[Thursday]

The SUCCESSORS to Peter and all the Apostles are still in full communion with each other. That fellow in Rome is not a successor to Peter, since his seat lost its succession when it fell away into schism. Antioch is as much a seat of Peter as Rome is, as well.

That is not true. All the early Church acknowledged that the Bishop of Rome was the successor of Peter.

The various Orthodox Churches are not in full communion with the successor of Peter.

This wasn't always the case:

Macedonius, Patriarch of Constantinople (466-516)

Macedonius declared, when desired by the Emperor Anastasius to condemn the Council of Chalcedon, that 'such a step without an Ecumenical Synod presided over by the Pope of Rome is impossible.' (Macedonius, Patr. Graec. 108: 360a (Theophan. Chronogr. pp. 234-346 seq.)

John VI, Patriarch of Constantinople (715)

The Pope of Rome, the head of the Christian priesthood, whom in Peter, the Lord commanded to confirm his brethren. (John VI, Epist. ad Constantin. Pap. ad. Combefis, Auctuar. Bibl. P.P. Graec.tom. ii. p. 211, seq.)

Sergius, Metropolitain of Cyprus (649)

Writing to Pope Theodore:
O Holy Head, Christ our God hath destined thy Apostolic See to be an immovable foundation and a pillar of the Faith. For thou art, as the Divine Word truly saith, Peter, and on thee as a foundation-stone have the pillars of the Church been fixed. (Sergius Ep. ad Theod. lecta in Sess. ii. Concil. Lat. anno 649)

St. Sophronius, Patriarch of Jerusalem (c. 638)

Teaching us all orthodoxy and destroying all heresy and driving it away from the God-protected halls of our holy Catholic Church. And together with these inspired syllables and characters, I accept all his (the pope's) letters and teachings as proceeding from the mouth of Peter the Coryphaeus, and I kiss them and salute them and embrace them with all my soul ... I recognize the latter as definitions of Peter and the former as those of Mark, and besides, all the heaven-taught teachings of all the chosen mystagogues of our Catholic Church. (Sophronius, Mansi, xi. 461)

Transverse quickly all the world from one end to the other until you come to the Apostolic See (Rome), where are the foundations of the orthodox doctrine. Make clearly known to the most holy personages of that throne the questions agitated among us. Cease not to pray and to beg them until their apostolic and Divine wisdom shall have pronounced the victorious judgement and destroyed from the foundation ...the new heresy. (Sophronius, [quoted by Bishop Stephen of Dora to Pope Martin I at the Lateran Council], Mansi, 893)

St. Theodore the Studite of Constantinople (759-826)

Writing to Pope Leo III:
Since to great Peter Christ our Lord gave the office of Chief Shepherd after entrusting him with the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, to Peter or his successor must of necessity every novelty in the Catholic Church be referred. [Therefore], save us, oh most divine Head of Heads, Chief Shepherd of the Church of Heaven. (Theodore, Bk. I. Ep. 23)

Writing to Pope Paschal:
Hear, O Apostolic Head, divinely-appointed Shepherd of Christ's sheep, keybearer of the Kingdom of Heaven, Rock of the Faith upon whom the Catholic Church is built. For Peter art thou, who adornest and governest the Chair of Peter. Hither, then, from the West, imitator of Christ, arise and repel not for ever (Ps. xliii. 23). To thee spake Christ our Lord: 'And thou being one day converted, shalt strengthen thy brethren.' Behold the hour and the place. Help us, thou that art set by God for this. Stretch forth thy hand so far as thou canst. Thou hast strength with God, through being the first of all. (Letter of St. Theodore and four other Abbots to Pope Paschal, Bk. ii Ep. 12, Patr. Graec. 99, 1152-3)

Theodoret, Bishop of Cyrus in Syria (450)
A native of Antioch, Theodoret ruled under the Antiochean Patriarch.
I therefore beseech your holiness to persuade the most holy and blessed bishop (Pope Leo) to use his Apostolic power, and to order me to hasten to your Council. For that most holy throne (Rome) has the sovereignty over the churches throughout the universe on many grounds. (Theodoret, Tom. iv. Epist. cxvi. Renato, p. 1197).

If Paul, the herald of the truth, the trumpet of the Holy Spirit, hastened to the great Peter, to convey from him the solution to those in Antioch, who were at issue about living under the law, how much more do we, poor and humble, run to the Apostolic Throne (Rome) to receive from you (Pope Leo) healing for wounds of the the Churches. For it pertains to you to have primacy in all things; for your throne is adorned with many prerogatives. (Theodoret Ibid, Epistle Leoni)

 

[BryanMaloney]

That is not true. All the early Church acknowledged that the Bishop of Rome was the successor of Peter.

Succession is not merely being in Rome. Succession means that you also do not schism and do not fall into heresy. Rome has failed and thus lost succession. Too bad. But merely having your butt in Rome does not automatically make you a permanent successor to St. Peter. One must also observe the full ecclesiology of the Church, and Rome has failed.

 

[Root of Jesse]

No, Peter is personally a "rock", but that does not mean that those of his alleged "successors" in Rome are Peter. Rome fell into schism, but the Church lives on, despite Rome's schism away from the leadership of Peter and the Apostles.

And yet, when tasked with appointing a successor to Judas, they prayed to the Holy Spirit, and appointed a successor. Also, Jesus said that the gates of hell would never prevail against His Church. And as John 6 points out, it's the ones who fell away that were schismatic, not those who stayed with Jesus...

 

[Thursday]

Succession is not merely being in Rome. Succession means that you also do not schism and do not fall into heresy. Rome has failed and thus lost succession. Too bad. But merely having your butt in Rome does not automatically make you a permanent successor to St. Peter. One must also observe the full ecclesiology of the Church, and Rome has failed.

So you are right and all the Eastern Patriarchs and Biships I quoted are wrong. I see.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Succession is not merely being in Rome. Succession means that you also do not schism and do not fall into heresy. Rome has failed and thus lost succession. Too bad. But merely having your butt in Rome does not automatically make you a permanent successor to St. Peter. One must also observe the full ecclesiology of the Church, and Rome has failed.

In your (minority) opinion. I have lots of Orthodox friends who wish to be in full communion with the Catholic Church, and there are no obstacles, to them.